Buffalo rifle

[Red Leg]

I'm confused . He's a really cool hunter He gets into " Battles " with Buffalo and hippos

You ought to do some research on the discussions about him on our site and elsewhere. He has fans. I and many others are not among them. His own DVDs show him goading wounded animals into a charge rather than simply putting them down quickly. He was dropped from SCI and most members feel justifiably (not all). I find the “battles” he contrives sickening. In my opinion his videos and his practices are anything but “cool.”

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

I'm confused . He's a really cool hunter He gets into " Battles " with Buffalo and hippos

That is exactly the problem , Hoss . He treats hunting like gladiatorial combat and it is irresponsible and risky in my opinion. He is a nice person , l am sure. He has an enviable collection of double barrel rifles and he is an excellent marksman. However , to me , at least , l find his antics with Buffaloes and hippopotamus animals to be unnecessarily cruel and dangerous. It looks very entertaining on videos . I agree myself. However , dangerous game hunting is a serious thing. Perhaps l am a hypocrite for saying this , based on the methods l have used to dispatch many of the animals in my career as a professional Shikari . But l did them out of necessity to make up for my pitiable armaments ( An Indian made shot-gun loaded with SG shot in both barrels , even though it was not built to fire charges of shot larger than number 1) and because my clients were at risk . The objective of hunting is to kill the animal quickly without keeping it lingering in pain any more than is necessary .
The way he provoked a dangerous animal to charge is not only very dangerous but needlessly cruel . Shooting an animal to injure it , just to make a video is ( to me ) a little unethical . This is not a duel. This is a life we are taking . You are an ethical sportsman. I have seen your other posts . Answer this. Would you ever do what Mr. Sullivan does in his videos , in real life ?

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Red Leg and Mr. Rahman , l'm really sorry about what l said . I met Mark Personally and idolized the guy as a kid Now that you say it like that , you're right. I wouldn't shoot to wound . But even you have to admit that a lot of the hatred against Mark is greatly exaggerated . The story about him shooting an animal in the balls with a .22 to drive it into charging , is pure baloney ! . I do like his style and that .577 NE Heym Double rifle he lugs around . But not someone who l would wanna copy .
But he's only done 8 Cape Buff and 6 hippo charge videos . That's not THAT many , considering how long his career has been . And yeah , l will be careful about writing on him It will be mostly about his .577 NE rifle

 

[BeeMaa]

This is what I don't like about him.
He had opportunity to finish this Buffalo anywhere between the 0:35 seconds to 0:44 seconds and didn't.
Instead he chose to wait and provoke a charge for the sake of the camera and bravado.
He might be a good person, but after seeing just a few of his videos I would pass on even shaking his hand.
Your actions dictate who you are, all the rest is just hot air.
His actions are crap IMO.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Red Leg and Mr. Rahman , l'm really sorry about what l said . I met Mark Personally and idolized the guy as a kid Now that you say it like that , you're right. I wouldn't shoot to wound . But even you have to admit that a lot of the hatred against Mark is greatly exaggerated . The story about him shooting an animal in the balls with a .22 to drive it into charging , is pure baloney ! . I do like his style and that .577 NE Heym Double rifle he lugs around . But not someone who l would wanna copy .
But he's only done 8 Cape Buff and 6 hippo charge videos . That's not THAT many , considering how long his career has been . And yeah , l will be careful about writing on him It will be mostly about his .577 NE rifle

8 buffaloes and 6 hippopotamuses are 14 lives , Hoss. The rumor about shooting an animal in it’s testicles with a .22 Long Rifle are , in all likelihood , false. But to me , that does not absolve him of some of his other practices. I know that what l am about to say sounds like a bizzare conspiracy theory , but when my former Shikar partner , Karim and l started seeing some of his early videos , we actually once wondered if he deliberately makes his clients take inappropriate shots just so that he can make a film of himself “ battling” the animal. I know that this theory is rather far fetched. But we did wonder it at the time , because no professional hunter thinking sensibly will let his clients do this . Allowing or encouraging your client to shoot a gun of which the recoil is beyond his capacity to handle , is very unwise for a professional Shikari , as it hampers correct shot placement . As l stated previously , l am an admirer of the magnum .375 . I always secretly admired those clients of mine who would bring magnum .375 rifles over the few who would bring magnum .458 Winchester calibre rifles and could not fire them at animals properly . The clients who would bring magnum .458 Winchester guns and could not place their shot correctly on beasts used to give me and Karim a very difficult time, as l told you about the incident involving the crocodile and the client with the magnum .44 big revolver. So Mark Sullivan allowing his clients to do this , is unwise , unless he deliberately does this , for the aforementioned reason , which makes him an actor and not a real hunter. Being a good hunter is more than simply being a good shot at an animal . I will always respect you no matter how you feel about his practices. Because you are an excellent sportsman who will never act like this yourself. But l would not want young hunters to follow this gentleman’s footsteps. And no need to apologize . I must confess. His videos are a guilty pleasure of mine too until l realize what he is actually doing.

 

[bruce moulds]

some of his clients do not seem to be capable of shooting well enough, and even think wounding things is funny.
too much money and not enough brains or ethics.
bruce.

 

[crs]

Poor Mark Sullivan!
I was gifted one of his books and except for the first few "chest besting" chapters found it quite interesting and educational. A friend of mine in the hunting biz knows Mark and says he is an OK guy at the hunting trade shows.
I emailed Mark about some little item in the book and we exchanged several interesting emails.

Maybe he is human and like humans is not perfect. Since I do not watch TV hunting shows or videos, I have nothing more to say about him. I do not waste my time reading diatribes against him or other folk I do not know or whose transgressions are not a matter of public record ( what was the name of the recently deceased former dictator of ZIM?).
Lets talk guns and hunting!

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Poor Mark Sullivan!
I was gifted one of his books and except for the first few "chest besting" chapters found it quite interesting and educational. A friend of mine in the hunting biz knows Mark and says he is an OK guy at the hunting trade shows.
I emailed Mark about some little item in the book and we exchanged several interesting emails.

Maybe he is human and like humans is not perfect. Since I do not watch TV hunting shows or videos, I have nothing more to say about him. I do not waste my time reading diatribes against him or other folk I do not know or whose transgressions are not a matter of public record ( what was the name of the recently deceased former dictator of ZIM?).
Lets talk guns and hunting!

A good , soft spoken gentleman with excellent taste in fire arms. I just do not agree with his approach to the profession. You are right. The topic somehow got veered off course. It is my fault for making that request to Hoss Delgado on the thread and not as a private message.

 

[Jaws]

Totally OT, but lets face it.

MS is a PH & in the business to sell hunts. Some of his videos will attract all sorts of clients, that, unlike most of the folk on this good forum, might think hunting is a form of status & valor, or some first time clients that knows no better but decides to book due to the fact that that MS is well known & seems to be the expert thanks to his videos making it to every corner of the world.
Unfortunately for him, these antics don't sit well with everybody, and though I don't know him & don't personally agree with all his portrayed actions or choice of words, I have to admit that he is a good shot. Beyond that I have no doubt that he is a likeable person away from the camera.

I'm sure the PH's can elaborate on some absolutely weird experiences with clients. The stuff I heard from PH friends & outfitters regarding some of the types of clients... One that arrived for a DG hunt with a brand new rifle & scope that gets mounted for sighting in on African soil then asked the PH to shoot it first. Clients arriving in a private helicopter, requesting the animals to be driven or lured towards him so he can shoot & get out of there for his next appointment. Another asking the PH if the cameraman can edit the video to reflect the hunt as a dramatic life & death situation if they don't get charged! Quite a few other cringing stories btw..
The point is, Not all hunters have the same knowledge & values towards our loved activity. The PH needs to put food on the table & when the client is willing to make it rain, the lines can get a bit blurred.

Back to the OP's question, getting a bigger caliber is always a good thing as long as you can manage to be comfortable with it as much as your regular firearms you use for North American game &.... its a 404Jeff
Wasn't the Chadwick ram (Stone Sheep) taken with a 404Jeffery?
Its a lovely caliber, hits with authority & can be used on just about anything. Its perceived recoil to me is not as sharp as the .375 or .416, rather a push than a shove.
Either way, I hope we get to see what the OP finally decide on.

 

[Red Leg]

Red Leg and Mr. Rahman , l'm really sorry about what l said . I met Mark Personally and idolized the guy as a kid Now that you say it like that , you're right. I wouldn't shoot to wound . But even you have to admit that a lot of the hatred against Mark is greatly exaggerated . The story about him shooting an animal in the balls with a .22 to drive it into charging , is pure baloney ! . I do like his style and that .577 NE Heym Double rifle he lugs around . But not someone who l would wanna copy .
But he's only done 8 Cape Buff and 6 hippo charge videos . That's not THAT many , considering how long his career has been . And yeah , l will be careful about writing on him It will be mostly about his .577 NE rifle

I don’t “have to admit” anything. @BeeMaa has provided a perfect example. I remember another (and refuse to look for it) where he is sternly lecturing his acolytes about going into “battle.” What utter nonsense. I have seen a battle. Hunting, especially dangerous game, is about quickly, cleanly, and humanely killing an animal that can be dangerous. As a PH, making sure your client has every opportunity to do just that is a primary responsibility. Failing in that responsibility, particularly intentionally, is hardly the stuff of legends.

 

[CoElkHunter]

hoss,
the design of the original silvertip required a rather blunt nose, somewhere between a roundnose and a spitzer.
this was part of its success, and also part of its demise.
today you are not a hunter unless you use high b.c. bullets, preferably with plastic tips.
fail to do this and you cannot kill anything, and should be so embarrassed that you should crawl into a hole and die.
in fact if you shoot anything at less than 300 yds nowadays you have nearly qualified to be a hunter's apprentice.
bruce.

Yeah, and just TRY and use the silvertips in a lever action! This may end any rifle hunting as we know it forever!!! Back to buckshot and crossbows!!!

 

[bruce moulds]

I don’t “have to admit” anything. @BeeMaa has provided a perfect example. I remember another (and refuse to look for it) where he is sternly lecturing his acolytes about going into “battle.” What utter nonsense. I have seen a battle. Hunting, especially dangerous game, is about quickly, cleanly, and humanely killing an animal that can be dangerous. As a PH, making sure your client has every opportunity to do just that is a primary responsibility. Failing in that responsibility, particularly intentionally, is hardly the stuff of legends.

depends on what you want your legend to be.
the choice is yours, but when you are gone you can't alter it.
bruce.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Yeah, and just TRY and use the silvertips in a lever action! This may end any rifle hunting as we know it forever!!! Back to buckshot and crossbows!!!

Co Elk Hunter
You have great fore sight. The pointed end of a Winchester silver tips would cause a hazard in most under lever rifles , with a tube type magazine ( of the kind used by my favorite actor , John Wayne ) as a sudden jolt due to recoil could potentially cause the pointed end of one bullet head to hit the primer on the back of the cartridge before it.
However , an Australian client of mine did own a .3006 calibre under lever rifle made by the firm , Winchester . It used no tube magazine and had an unremovable box magazine. The model name of this rifle escapes my memory . However , he did use Winchester silver tip cartridge in the gun to kill the feline in the picture . It is my understanding that the box magazine frees the shooter from such limitations.

 

[mark-hunter]

Possibly Winchester 1895...?Theodor Rosevelt had this type of rifle on his famous safari of 1909.
Photo is from internet.

.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Possibly Winchester 1895...?Theodor Rosevelt had this type of rifle on his famous safari of 1909.
Photo is from internet.

.View attachment 307636

Mark Hunter , your skills ato deduction are impressive. That is exactly the gun l saw. I am a fan of Mr. Roosevelt myself and own a hard back cover copy of his book . I was under the assumption that these guns were only in the Winchester. 405 bore.

 

[Red Leg]

Yeah, and just TRY and use the silvertips in a lever action! This may end any rifle hunting as we know it forever!!! Back to buckshot and crossbows!!!

Not sure what you are saying. Silvertips and other pointed bullets work fine in Savage 99’s, Winchester 1895’s, and the Browning BLR - any design with a vertical magazine. If it was a different point you were making, I missed it?

 

[CoElkHunter]

Not sure what you are saying. Silvertips and other pointed bullets work fine in Savage 99’s, Winchester 1895’s, and the Browning BLR - any design with a vertical magazine. If it was a different point you were making, I missed it?

Red Leg,
I was being sarcastic and facetious. It seems through some of the posts on some of the threads here regarding lever action rifles and in this case “older” Silvertip bullets, some OPs believe neither of the above would be adequate for hunting ANY game in Africa, or perhaps anywhere else. I don’t own a lever action rifle any longer, but my hunting buddy and his son both have Browning BLRs in .30-06 and have taken several elk, many deer and pronghorn and one moose with them. Even though I’ve never used Win Silvertips, I’m sure they were/would be just just fine for taking African PG and most North American game, the same way the Remington Core Lokts have worked for me in my .338 WM. Are there better, more modern bullets available? Sure, but apparently the Silvertips and others were at least acceptable for doing the job at hand. Not many choices back then?
CEH

 

[bruce moulds]

there are some modern ones that are purported to be better, but are actually worse.
the in crowd long range marketing machine has been a big part of this.
bruce.

 

[Red Leg]

Red Leg,
I was being sarcastic and facetious. It seems through some of the posts on some of the threads here regarding lever action rifles and in this case “older” Silvertip bullets, some OPs believe neither of the above would be adequate for hunting ANY game in Africa, or perhaps anywhere else. I don’t own a lever action rifle any longer, but my hunting buddy and his son both have Browning BLRs in .30-06 and have taken several elk, many deer and pronghorn and one moose with them. Even though I’ve never used Win Silvertips, I’m sure they were/would be just just fine for taking African PG and most North American game, the same way the Remington Core Lokts have worked for me in my .338 WM. Are there better, more modern bullets available? Sure, but apparently the Silvertips and others were at least acceptable for doing the job at hand. Not many choices back then?
CEH

I missed that completely - sorry. Can I blame jet lag? We rolled in from a trip late last night.

My only hesitation with regard to the old Silvertips, like with any other cup and core, is they will occasionally separate. In most cases, deer and even elk for instance, it likely wouldn’t matter if it did. I certainly would not feel unarmed if using original 150 or 180 gr Silvertips from an ‘06 here in Texas - something of a classic combination. Like any cup and core, they would be pretty far down my list for use on a Cape buffalo from a .375.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

I missed that completely - sorry. Can I blame jet lag? We rolled in from a trip late last night.

My only hesitation with regard to the old Silvertips, like with any other cup and core, is they will occasionally separate. In most cases, deer and even elk for instance, it likely wouldn’t matter if it did. I certainly would not feel unarmed if using original 150 or 180 gr Silvertips from an ‘06 here in Texas - something of a classic combination. Like any cup and core, they would be pretty far down my list for use on a Cape buffalo from a .375.

Red Leg speaks correctly . The silver tip ammunition by Winchester will some times have the metal envelope come apart from the interior lead part. I have seen this many times when cutting open Nilgai and boars for clients. This was of little consequence as the animal is still cleanly killed ( I have never seen them separate inside a barking deer , however ) . On Bisons or buffaloes , they make a very poor choice for any shot except one where the shooter is facing the beast fully on from the side to allow a shot that can pierce both lungs. Interestingly enough , for this one shot they would excel over anything else at the time .
Modern ammunition with controlled rates of expansion and minimal chances of separation have pushed this type of bullet into obsolescence as they are far safer to use . I am still sad that they are no longer manufactured , but this is more out of nostalgia rather than practical reasons.