Model 70 458 rebarreled to 416 River

[TOBY458]

It depends upon what the seller has established as the minimum they'll accept. If 1,400 dollars (if I'm reading it right), given the barrel band front sight (the rear looks to be standard which, if so, also happens to be a NECG product but not one you'd need to buy), not to mention the stock (which is also presumably not needed but not of the same quality), it would at best be a push (as you'll need reamers, gauges, and so on...might be able to rent them but then again you might not).

The $1400 bid is the starting bid. The reserve hasn't been met. I would venture to say the reserve is well north of $2000.00

 

[lwaters]

If it could be bought for $1500 it would be a steal. But you never know.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The $1400 bid is the starting bid. The reserve hasn't been met. I would venture to say the reserve is well north of $2000.00

I bet you are correct

If it could be bought for $1500 it would be a steal. But you never know.

I recently bought a Win Mod 70 Super Grade in 300 RUM on GB for $1100. I then shipped off to Dennis Olson in Montana to have him convert it into a 404 Jeffery. Currently waiting for Krieger to make the barrel and ship it to Dennis (4-5 months wait time). When it's all said and done, I should have just under $3,000 in the project. (I hope my wife doesn't see this!).

Looking at the rifle currently on GB, if you can get it for a couple hundred dollars under the buy now price, I believe you'd have a good deal and you wouldn't have to wait 6 months or a year to get the conversion done. Plus, that rifle has a very nice stock on it, certainly an upgrade from a factory stock. The LOP is a bit short (for me, at least) but that can be easily corrected.

 

[Red Leg]

10 mins left on that auction - but that looks like a deal at the min bid.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The auction ended with a high bid of $1375 and the reserve price was not met. The rifle has been relisted with the same buy now of $2499. Just a guess, but I bet the reserve is somewhere between $2000 and $2499.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/759091071

 

[greyfox]

That's interesting but I think I can do it cheaper

You could get a Model 70 in 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag or 458 - the 300 or 338 are more popular and thus should be able to get one cheaper (used). Rebarrel to 416, and you SHOULD be done; Yes you have to set head space (that's part of rebarrel) You MAY have a feed issue where the rails have to be opened up SLIGHTLY.

The 300/338/458 are all built on the same case. The Ruger takes the same diameter as the belt on the Winchesters and runs that full length of the body - think an "Improved case". Thus where the rounds ride up in the magazine there COULD be an issue with the fatter case not clearing the rails. I don't suspect that would be the issue but without the action and caliper in my hands it's simply not possible to know.

Also, of interest - Winchester was supposed to develop and market a 416 Win Mag but decided the gain over a 338 in energy and the 458 in velocity was not worth the investment - this was before the 416 craze. The 416 Taylor is nothing more than a 458 necked down (or a 338 necked up) to 416.

Google 416 Taylor - some interesting stuff, but if I was going to do it - I'd go with the Ruger. My issue is a single source of brass - it's proprietary to Ruger/Hornady.

There's not a nickle's worth of difference between any of them - a couple of articles have recently (in the last year) been published on all of them. Yes, the Remington is faster; however I doubt any animal is going to take a hit from any of them and live to tell about it.

 

[lwaters]

You could get a Model 70 in 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag or 458 - the 300 or 338 are more popular and thus should be able to get one cheaper (used). Rebarrel to 416, and you SHOULD be done; Yes you have to set head space (that's part of rebarrel) You MAY have a feed issue where the rails have to be opened up SLIGHTLY.

The 300/338/458 are all built on the same case. The Ruger takes the same diameter as the belt on the Winchesters and runs that full length of the body - think an "Improved case". Thus where the rounds ride up in the magazine there COULD be an issue with the fatter case not clearing the rails. I don't suspect that would be the issue but without the action and caliper in my hands it's simply not possible to know.

Also, of interest - Winchester was supposed to develop and market a 416 Win Mag but decided the gain over a 338 in energy and the 458 in velocity was not worth the investment - this was before the 416 craze. The 416 Taylor is nothing more than a 458 necked down (or a 338 necked up) to 416.

Google 416 Taylor - some interesting stuff, but if I was going to do it - I'd go with the Ruger. My issue is a single source of brass - it's proprietary to Ruger/Hornady.

There's not a nickle's worth of difference between any of them - a couple of articles have recently (in the last year) been published on all of them. Yes, the Remington is faster; however I doubt any animal is going to take a hit from any of them and live to tell about it.

I think doing it with the 458 win mag would be better because of the stronger stock. You would have to beef up the 338 stock. That's one thing about the ruger African is it has had stock issues.

 

[fourfive8]

Well, GB is a big market and the 1375 didn't get it. That indicates it is overvalued with the reserve set too high. The collectible premium of a pre-64 70 is gone once it's been tinkered with. If I were absolutely dying to use a Model 70 action, I would use a pre-2006 (New Haven), post 64 CRF action and re-barrel it and modify for length and feed if needed. One of the buggers in many Mauser design bolt actions is bolt binding at the full rearward position. Winchester solved that in the later M70s by adding a guide slot in the right side lug. Without any doubt, my factory Win 70 late New Haven 416 Rem Mag (with the lug guide slot) is the smoothest large bolt rifle I have ever cycled.

I don't know where the idea came from that certain Mod 70s are longer or of different lengths? All standard length M70s are the same length and will handle carts up to 3.6" OAL, but... such as magazine spacers, followers and bolt stops have to be modified for the longer carts in the 3.6" category (375 HH length) if the rifle was not for a longer cart length originally. Also don't know the advantage of non-belted fat bodied carts. But the smooth cycling, non-belted stories are sure good marketing for Ruger though I've never had a belted mag hang up in either a push feed or a CRF nor have I ever felt the belt when cycling a belted round. Also, I like belted carts (and rimmed carts for that matter) because I KNOW the headspace is absolute thus firing is more reliable. Re-sizing/reloading will not alter the headspace of a belted round nor a rimmed round. I can full length re-size a belted round for flawless chambering and know the headspace is still absolute.

 

[CTDolan]

If you reload the belt can become an issue, but really it’s all about the belt serving no real purpose on modern, bottleneck cartridges (it only exists due to the origin of the design and a history which led to a preponderance of the case). If I were looking for a shorter 416 it’d be the Ruger over the Taylor (more capacity...simple as that). But, if not I’d take the Remington over the Ruger (again, more capacity), and the Rigby over them all (an easy 2,300-2,400 fps (low pressure) and a history second to none).

 

[greyfox]

I think doing it with the 458 win mag would be better because of the stronger stock. You would have to beef up the 338 stock. That's one thing about the ruger African is it has had stock issues.

Add a cross bloc and glass the action (recoil lug).

 

[fourfive8]

Winchester Model 70 CRF bolts.
Top- pre-64 without anti bind guide slot
Bottom- post-64 with anti bind guide slot (intro for '68 push feed and '92 for re-intro of CRF)

 

[lwaters]

I Am going to do this some day just in no hurry. Looks like it would be an easy rebarrel job. There are a lot of 458 out there but some are push feed which are a bit cheaper.

 

[greyfox]

About three or four times I've bought a SAKO action to rebarrel to 416 - I still don't have one!!! LOL
I was going to do the 416 Taylor, but now would go with the 416 Ruger I believe.

Shooting Times, March 2018 has an excellent article on the medium 416's - The Ruger, not only one source of brass, but Hornady uses a proprietary powder, so hand loaders are not achieving what factory loads do - which is OK, it's not like a varmint rifle that gets shot a lot - 5 boxes, (100 rounds) should be sufficient to get acquainted with the gun.