Politics

[CJW]

Makes my skin crawl....

View attachment 735916

Couldn't agree more. Nostradamus didn't see this crap coming. Muhammad himself never would have dreamed of his followers being willfully imported and embraced like this.

 

[Red Leg]

What has Russia actually taken as a reward up to this point? We give Ukraine weaponry and other resources but we haven't actually given Russia anything have we? Correct me if I'm wrong. There have been some things discussed and supposedly offered and hashed out but no actual deals and I don't think anyone is actually surprised when nothing comes of it. I don't buy the narrative that we've emboldened Putin either. That guy isn't going to give a damn regardless. He'll always take credit and avoid responsibility to suit his needs. The war just keeps getting prolonged and Russia bleeds human and technical assets by the day which is definitely in our favor. In that regard I'm not saying that this is definitely all in the grand plan, but if it were and our goal was to weaken Russia as much as possible or to create some kind of coup or citizen uprising but at the same time not backing Putin in into too much a nuclear corner by seeming somewhat friendly and sympathetic...


As far as Putin himself goes and the commentary of our enemies being three moves ahead, I think it's easy for these enemies to seem three steps ahead when their leaders have zero regard for anyone, up to and including their own citizens. There's no limit or boundaries to what you can do at that point. Need more men for the meat grinder? Sure, throw them in. The elites will happily sit down for a luxury four course meal that same night. I'm also not impressed by Russia starting a war with a country next door. It takes zero technical genius to do such a thing, especially when you're a nuclear power.

I am not sure what you wrote had to do with the concern I expressed.

Thus far Russia has seized approximately 20% of a sovereign country and inflicted several hundred thousand military and civilian casualties on a people whose only crime was wanting to chart a democratic future aligned with Western Europe.

Every utterance by this administration to date has either been certifiably insane - Ukraine shouldn’t have started a war it couldn’t win - or sympathetic to Russia’s ridiculous narrative that it’s brutal invasion was somehow defensive. As an American and professional who devoted his life to the defense of our nation’s national interests, it frankly shames me.

 

[CJW]

I am not sure what you wrote had to do with the concern I expressed.

You and others keep talking about rewarding Putin. How exactly has he been rewarded up to this point? How dovwe know that all of this hasn't just been a strategy to prolong the war to weaken Russia?

 

[CJW]

I am not sure what you wrote had to do with the concern I expressed.

Thus far Russia has seized approximately 20% of a sovereign country and inflicted several hundred thousand military and civilian casualties on a people whose only crime was wanting to chart a democratic future aligned with Western Europe.

Every utterance by this administration to date has either been certifiably insane - Ukraine shouldn’t have started a war it couldn’t win - or sympathetic to Russia’s ridiculous narrative that it’s brutal invasion was somehow defensive. As an American and professional who devoted his life to the defense of our nation’s national interests, it frankly shames me.

Russia siezed 20% of a non NATO country with questionable intentions a long time ago in an invasion that we couldn't stop. Since then I've seen a WW1 style stalemate, America has give every kind of weaponry and help to Ukraine and nothing to Russia, despite any words that may have shamed you. Russia has been significantly weakened in every way possible and in a way that they may never recover from.

 

[Red Leg]

Russia siezed 20% of a non NATO country with questionable intentions a long time ago in an invasion that we couldn't stop. Since then I've seen a WW1 style stalemate, America has give every kind of weaponry and help to Ukraine and nothing to Russia, despite any words that may have shamed you. Russia has been significantly weakened in every way possible and in a way that they may never recover from.

We have indeed given Ukraine just enough not to be defeated. For instance we gave them exactly 31 M1 tanks - we have over Three thousand in storage - hardly providing "every kind of weaponry." However, I believe the "Biden strategy" was hardly Machiavellian, but rather simple fecklessness out some sort of fear they would be faced with some form of retaliation that would be difficult to manage. After all, the war effort was led by Jake Sullivan - a man with zero military or diplomatic experience (rather like Trump's chief negotiator). However, If the Biden administration's actual strategy was to prolong a conflict using the blood and hopes of Ukrainians as munitions, then I find that utterly reprehensible.

I find the blame Ukraine crowd who has assumed control of this country's strategic engagement equally reprehensible and perhaps even worse. They, from our president on down and abetted by his allies in social media like Tucker Carlson, simply lie while the administration's supporters blindly applaud. This war is not the fault of Ukraine. The blame America crowd on the right (how that worm has turned) is also loudly pointing fingers, but this war was not caused by Zelensky, or the Ukrainian people, or the CIA, or any other convenient imagined perpetrator - just Putin.

The surest way to conclude this conflict in a manner that is in our national interests is to provide Ukraine with the means to make it impossible for Russia to achieve its strategic goals. The vast majority of that materiel is sitting in this country in warehouses - materiel our military will never use. I suspect merely turning on that tap would be enough to force the Russians into a very prompt accommodation to try and hang on to what they currently occupy.

Sadly, I do not believe this administration has a perception of a stable, democratic Europe as a key partner - seemingly preferring instead the vague assurances of the KGB thug cowering in Moscow.

 

[CJW]

We have indeed given Ukraine just enough not to be defeated.

Maybe that's enough for our strategic goals.

 

[spike.t]

That would certainly be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Tonga has 100k people in it and the Chinese are not famous for their good treatment of ethnic minorities. Becoming China’s Hawaii would be the Acme of foolishness especially when we have them dead to rights on their visa abuses. Chinese ties come with Chinese strings attached.

My guess is they’ll make their stink but keep things the relatively unchanged. Having their visa situation tightened up is really a minor inconvenience in the scheme of things and is likely to change back as quickly as it came about, either in this administration or the next.

I wasn't just referencing tonga.....you are in usa...I am in the arena of people who are pissed off....so a shit load of people starting to think .. even if they didn't before...maybe China is better...how in the long term is that good for usa?.....I am fkd off with this visa shit.....my wife has had 2 or 3 three year visitor visas...but now I have to fkn put a ludicrous deposit on so she can visit....and myself who have been coming to usa since 1990 when I had an unlimited entry visitor visa now have to give all that bullshit info...sorry not a fkn chance.....they also pissed off as the sent troops to Afghanistan to back up.....fk me the percentages used compared to visitors or even populations are a joke

 

[HuntingGold]

I too am frustrated with many things coming from the Trump administration. However, could you imagine where we would be a under Harris/Walz administration?

While Im not pleased with Trump, I am forever grateful we are not living under the alternative.

 

[mdwest]

The surest way to conclude this conflict in a manner that is in our national interests is to provide Ukraine with the means to make it impossible for Russia to achieve its strategic goals. The vast majority of that materiel is sitting in this country in warehouses - materiel our military will never use. I suspect merely turning on that tap would be enough to force the Russians into a very prompt accommodation to try and hang on to what they currently occupy.

Concur..

We don’t have to give them enough to “win” per se… just enough to ensure the Russians lose…

Don’t give them all 3000 M1’s… don’t put them in a position where they could march on Moscow or threaten Putin to the point he has cause to strike elsewhere…

But what about 300 M1’s? And the fuel and munitions to support them.. and maybe a handful of older patriot batteries.. and a hand full of capable surface to air missiles to ward off Russian air capability?

Enough to push the Russians out of Ukraine fairly decisively… but not enough to move more than a few miles into Russian homeland turf…

In the process the Russian military and economy would be further devastated.. and Ukraine would be restored…

Win - Win…

And then hold the Ukrainians accountable… in exchange we put monitors on the ground … and we let them know that we expect them to get their cyber criminals under control, or else… and oh, by the way, we’ll be extracting rare earth to pay for the stuff we provided you for the next few years (thereby not only securing it for ourselves.. but also denying it to the Russians and Chinese…

Second set of win - wins…

I’m sure I’m missing something…

But it all seems pretty reasonable and easy to me…

 

[spike.t]

What has Russia actually taken as a reward up to this point? We give Ukraine weaponry and other resources but we haven't actually given Russia anything have we? Correct me if I'm wrong. There have been some things discussed and supposedly offered and hashed out but no actual deals and I don't think anyone is actually surprised when nothing comes of it. I don't buy the narrative that we've emboldened Putin either. That guy isn't going to give a damn regardless. He'll always take credit and avoid responsibility to suit his needs. The war just keeps getting prolonged and Russia bleeds human and technical assets by the day which is definitely in our favor. In that regard I'm not saying that this is definitely all in the grand plan, but if it were and our goal was to weaken Russia as much as possible or to create some kind of coup or citizen uprising but at the same time not backing Putin in into too much a nuclear corner by seeming somewhat friendly and sympathetic...


As far as Putin himself goes and the commentary of our enemies being three moves ahead, I think it's easy for these enemies to seem three steps ahead when their leaders have zero regard for anyone, up to and including their own citizens. There's no limit or boundaries to what you can do at that point. Need more men for the meat grinder? Sure, throw them in. The elites will happily sit down for a luxury four course meal that same night. I'm also not impressed by Russia starting a war with a country next door. It takes zero technical genius to do such a thing, especially when you're a nuclear power.

Don't understand...most of whst you said actually agrees that it emboldened putim....

 

[spike.t]

We have indeed given Ukraine just enough not to be defeated. For instance we gave them exactly 31 M1 tanks - we have over Three thousand in storage - hardly providing "every kind of weaponry." However, I believe the "Biden strategy" was hardly Machiavellian, but rather simple fecklessness out some sort of fear they would be faced with some form of retaliation that would be difficult to manage. After all, the war effort was led by Jake Sullivan - a man with zero military or diplomatic experience (rather like Trump's chief negotiator). However, If the Biden administration's actual strategy was to prolong a conflict using the blood and hopes of Ukrainians as munitions, then I find that utterly reprehensible.

I find the blame Ukraine crowd who has assumed control of this country's strategic engagement equally reprehensible and perhaps even worse. They, from our president on down and abetted by his allies in social media like Tucker Carlson, simply lie while the administration's supporters blindly applaud. This war is not the fault of Ukraine. The blame America crowd on the right (how that worm has turned) is also loudly pointing fingers, but this war was not caused by Zelensky, or the Ukrainian people, or the CIA, or any other convenient imagined perpetrator - just Putin.

The surest way to conclude this conflict in a manner that is in our national interests is to provide Ukraine with the means to make it impossible for Russia to achieve its strategic goals. The vast majority of that materiel is sitting in this country in warehouses - materiel our military will never use. I suspect merely turning on that tap would be enough to force the Russians into a very prompt accommodation to try and hang on to what they currently occupy.

Sadly, I do not believe this administration has a perception of a stable, democratic Europe as a key partner - seemingly preferring instead the vague assurances of the KGB thug cowering in Moscow.

Give up joe ....you beating your head against a granite monolith......

 

[spike.t]

Concur..

We don’t have to give them enough to “win” per se… just enough to ensure the Russians lose…

Don’t give them all 3000 M1’s… don’t put them in a position where they could march on Moscow or threaten Putin to the point he has cause to strike elsewhere…

But what about 300 M1’s? And the fuel and munitions to support them.. and maybe a handful of older patriot batteries.. and a hand full of capable surface to air missiles to ward off Russian air capability?

Enough to push the Russians out of Ukraine fairly decisively… but not enough to move more than a few miles into Russian homeland turf…

In the process the Russian military and economy would be further devastated.. and Ukraine would be restored…

Win - Win…

And then hold the Ukrainians accountable… in exchange we put monitors on the ground … and we let them know that we expect them to get their cyber criminals under control, or else… and oh, by the way, we’ll be extracting rare earth to pay for the stuff we provided you for the next few years (thereby not only securing it for ourselves.. but also denying it to the Russians and Chinese…

Second set of win - wins…

I’m sure I’m missing something…

But it all seems pretty reasonable and easy to me…

Stop being so sensible...but make it 500 you cheap skate..they not been doing that well....so a few spares be good

 

[CJW]

Don't understand...most of whst you said actually agrees that it emboldened putim....

You seem to be typing while drunk and you're saying that you don't understand what I typed?

 

[mdwest]

You seem to be typing while drunk

Well… it is a little after midnight on New Year’s Eve in Zambia

 

[CJW]

Well… it is a little after midnight on New Year’s Eve in Zambia

That is very true.

 

[spike.t]

You seem to be typing while drunk and you're saying that you don't understand what I typed?

Take a lot more than what I have had to get me properly pissed.....what is I said you don't understand..?....

 

[CJW]

Give up joe ....you beating your head against a granite monolith......

Red Leg and I have conversed 100% civily even if we don't agree. Other than a need to be noticed or you're being completely plastered, I fail to see why you need to jump in.

Happy New Year regardless.

 

[spike.t]

Red Leg and I have conversed 100% civily even if we don't agree. Other than a need to be noticed or you're being completely plastered, I fail to see why you need to jump in.

Happy New Year regardless.

Whatever

 

[spike.t]

Well… it is a little after midnight on New Year’s Eve in Zambia

Actually 3.06 am.....pissed off as hotel decided nye was good time to do a stock take.....earliest I have ever been to bed on nye in probably 47 or so years...bsr here was open all night last couple years ...so 5 am or so was good....so pissed off and not in mood for assholes

 

[CJW]

Actually 3.06 am.....pissed off as hotel decided nye was good time to do a stock take.....earliest I have ever been to bed on nye in probably 47 or so years...bsr here was open all night last couple years ...so 5 am or so was good....so pissed off and not in mood for assholes

Stay classy spike.