Which Calibre Should Be Consigned to the Grave

[Major Bonkers]

.460 Weatherby Magnum. Pierre van der Walt has a story in African Dangerous Game Cartridges about a chap who took a shot off the bonnet of his Land Cruiser; the muzzle blast broke the windscreen, and the recoil dislocated his shoulder. I think he also managed to blow out his eardrums.

.585 Nyati. Has a fearsome reputation for maiming its users.

.243 Winchester. Too big to use on small game, too small to use on large game. My cousin's know-all husband handed her a .270 cartridge when she was zeroing the .243 rifle. The rifle blew up and she was lucky not to be injured.

 

[matt85]

The Winchester 1886 was available in .45-70.

I just did a quick search and you are indeed correct. At some point I read an article about why the 450 Marlin was invented and it had something to do with the availability of 45-70 or 45-70 lever guns. But it appears that wasn't true. Researching now, it appears the 450 Marlin was an attempt to make a higher performance 45-70 cartridge, that idiots couldn't accidently put in a 45-70.

 

[matt85]

.460 Weatherby Magnum. Pierre van der Walt has a story in African Dangerous Game Cartridges about a chap who took a shot off the bonnet of his Land Cruiser; the muzzle blast broke the windscreen, and the recoil dislocated his shoulder. I think he also managed to blow out his eardrums.

I have never shot a 460 wby but I have fired guns that are significantly bigger and more powerful. This story sounds fairly silly!

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

.243 Winchester. Too big to use on small game, too small to use on large game. My cousin's know-all husband handed her a .270 cartridge when she was zeroing the .243 rifle. The rifle blew up and she was lucky not to be injured.

I am curious how one could get a 270 into a 243?

 

[Rifleman97]

No interest in cartridges developed after 1940.. No rebated rim rounds either..they are abominations..

What about the rebated rim cartridges from pre 1940? 404 jeffery is rebated, as is 425 westley richard’s

 

[Rifleman97]

I have never shot a 460 wby but I have fired guns that are significantly bigger and more powerful. This story sounds fairly silly!

It was probably because it may have had a brake on it, and the windshield reflected a lot of the sound back into his ears. Check out this video on how powerful muzzle blast from brakes really are!

 

[Tanks]

.375 caliber variants. They are the 6.5 Creedmoor of DG cartridges.

 

[wildwilderness]

Admittedly, I am naive on the WSM detractors. What is the primary complaint when comparing the 300 Win Mag and the 300 WSM?

main complaint is it did not “out perform” the 300 WM. Its close and very efficient achieving similar performance with less powder.

Other technical issues is the short neck and limited COAL for longer high BC bullets. Works better in a “middle sized” action like a Tikka set to the long bolt stop.

Also the fat case had feeding issues unless sorted, feeds much better from a center feed or a removable clip.

 

[bigborelover]

For me it is the 6.5 creedmoor ( needmoor).

 

[wildwilderness]

Not sure who Ackley was, but I struggle with his work.....

PO Ackley did make sense for his time. You have to remember the era when it was difficult and expensive to rebarrell a rifle, and really tough to make new brass. Also premium bullets we’re not available, mainly cup and core

The concept is straightforward- improving the existing available cartridges in existing rifles that people already had for a slight performance boost.

You only had to ream a little bit out of your chamber, can still shoot factory ammo, and can reload the fire formed brass next time.

Practically it made a lot of sense. The only real question was why do you need 50 fps more

 

[JeffD]

32 WCF. And 8mm more generally.

 

[Josh P]

I’m good with all of them existing, even the 6.5 cm.

I didn’t go out of my way to find one, but I was offered a deal so good I couldn’t logically pass it up at the time. Rifle, accessories, including case and scope, a pile of ammo, for $200. I bought it, killed a few deer and had some fun at the range, then sold it. It helped me see the effectiveness of a 6.5 platform and now I have a 6.5 Swede M96 to finish out. I don’t regret either purchase.

Now, I would like to see a re-prioritization of certain calibers of bullet and brass manufacturing, as most of us would, but I’ll let someone else start that thread after this one gets its juice squeezed.

Edit:

I’ll also say this. For all the hate, the 6.5 cm did a LOT to get people interested and through the door for shooting accurately, practicing, etc. Any caliber that gets people excited and buying more guns and ammo and reloading materials is a good thing. Anyone who makes the argument that the CM wounds deer, but the Swede slays them, may need to read a bit about logical fallacy, causation vs correlation, etc. The pills they shoot can be identical, and we need to not be grognards about what people choose to hunt with and instead encourage them to hunt, and hunt ethically, etc.

 

[wildwilderness]

I have no interest in any Belted Magnum! So many newer more efficient options

 

[Muskox]

LMAO I am a FFL in Iceland everyone bought them - I decided not to stock as ammo would be the problem - it was but on ballistics, nothing the 6.5x55 cannot achieve - So kids crying they cannot get ammo

Then I go to Africa as I do and foreign hunters there ....it is a death ray - meanwhile I am helping out on sorting the wounded etc !

Everytime a new calibre comes out - I get the bible out - and see it has been done before or pretty close to being done

Before the Great War - DG calibres sorted

Before WW2 plainsgame was sorted - only 17 HMR has made a difference - as can in the UK or Europe take a hare or a rabbit @ 100+ and a fox @ 50 with the same gun !

17 HMR is great, I shot a badger with it in September. Perfect. Tikka T1 silencer, night vision.

 

[Beck]

The fuckin 6.5 creedmore for sure

 

[rookhawk]

Following on from another estemed member who wishes,with my full support, to resurrect I am thinking the alternative

Which deserve to die

I would start with 6.5 Creedmoor

I woudl further mention 270 win nothing a 7x57 or 7x64 did not acheive in spades

I know, but as pitchforks are banned in Iceland and indeed flaming torches will stop us reaching our carbon whatever - I feel I am safe here

I like the OP. I realize its an American legend, but the 270 Winchester and any other .277 caliber should be kicked to the curb.

The magic of .264" (6.5mm) and .284" (7mm) bullets in a long throated chamber do remarkable things that undermine the awkward 270s at every turn. A 6.5x55 Swede or 6.5x54MS shooting a 140gr bullet punches so far above its weight class its remarkable. The 7x57 and 7x64 shooting a 175gr is again, nothing but shock and awe.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

lol…I will preempt my good friend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen by saying the 243

@Rare Breed
Thank you
But you forgot the 338 wimpchester mag-none as well.
Won't do anything the Whelen won't do as well or better.
One thing I will give the 338 is it makes fine and dandy 416 Taylor and 425 express cases as well as 358 Norma mag cases so I guess it's useful for something.
Bob

 

[Flbt]

I believe it was created because no one had yet made a 45-70 lever gun At the time. No reason for a modern gun to be chambered in it now

From what I remember. It was made for a high pressure 45-70 duplicate load with a belt ( and a bit wider belt than normal)
To do away with the need for the hot 45-70 loads where one of them would not blow a older rifle.

The 45-70 leaver guns had been around decades before the 450m showed up

 

[Tanks]

But you forgot the 338 wimpchester mag-none as well.
Won't do anything the Whelen won't do as well or better.

Can you make 5-600+ yard shots with .35 Whelen? It is giving up about 400fps at the muzzle for 200 grain bullets.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Admittedly, I am naive on the WSM detractors. What is the primary complaint when comparing the 300 Win Mag and the 300 WSM?

I have never shot a 460 wby but I have fired guns that are significantly bigger and more powerful. This story sounds fairly silly!

Now if he had said that all that damage was done with your 8 bore, I might believe it. ;-).