Which Calibre Should Be Consigned to the Grave

[BJH65]

A few years back I had my friend, gunsmith Dennis Olson rechamber an FN Mauser to 280 Ackley Improved. He asked me, which one? What do you mean which one? Well there are two, the original 280 AI with 40 degree shoulder and the newer Nosler factory 280 AI with 30 degree shoulder, designed to feed better apparently and not interchangeable. What the hell? If you want to shoot factory loaded 280 AI then you have to go with the Nosler 280 AI 30 degree version which is what I did but damn it was confusing. I wish there was only one, the original version, less confusion!

 

[dogcat1]

Not sure who Ackley was, but I struggle with his work.....

 

[matt85]

Have you thought "The 416 RM and 416 Rigby are just too practical and dont cost nearly enough"? Then the 400 H&H is the cartridge for you! It offers absolutely no benefits or history and exists soley to be expensive and exclusive.

 

[Rifleman97]

I only hate one cartridge, and it’s a pretty hot take even for this thread haha. I HATE the 308 Winchester.

Why do I hate the 308? Ignoring popularity (as if that’s what mattered people wouldn’t be bashing on the creedmoor) the 30 Thompson Center did everything that the 308 wishes it could do. ACTUALLY matching the 30-06 in velocity in a short action. And honestly speaking… who the hell cares about the 30-06 being in a short action format? It’s been proven that short actions don’t cycle any faster. The ‘06 has enough velocity that you can much easier take 2-3” off the barrel and still get 308 or faster velocities, and have a shorter gun than the same barrel length but going short action.

The 30-06 has a 1:10 twist rate which allows a broader selection of bullet weights, and can shoot the heavier ones at considerably higher velocities (specifically the 180-220 grainers) than the 308, which can only stabilize up to 180’s or so(depending on construction)

The long neck allows for stronger neck tension without “needing” to crimp on bullets like hammers and Barnes where there’s a lot less surface area contact on the bullet.

If I wanted a short action 30-06, I’d go 300wsm. Get 24” barrel 30-06 velocities out of an 18-20” barrel. But honestly, I’d rather run the wsm in a medium or long action with a custom throat to run the 190-230 grain bullets seated out long.

All in all, the 308 is dead to me. I will never own one. I’ve owned 30-06, 300 wsm, 30-378, 30-30, 7.62x54r, and 7.62x39, but I will never own the 308 win/7.62 NATO.

The only 2 good things to come out of the 308 was the 7-08 as the better beginner recoil shy do it all cartridge, and the 358 Winchester as a good hog/brush cartridge.

But even with those two, I personally prefer the 280 Ackley, and 35 Whelen. Why go short action?? I have 1 short action bolt gun in 350 legend, and cycling it feels like I’m cycling a toy, it’s not as satisfying!

 

[BryceM]

I personally could live without the .30-40 Krag, the .30 carbine, and the .30 Luger. They’re all old military cartridges with no sporting usefulness. I’m sure I could come up with a bunch more - maybe dozens more. I suppose I could live without most of the .XX Noslers, the .340, .416, and .460 Wby. I actually like most of the Ackleys. That guy had a couple of things figured out.

But, I’m sure all of these have their proponents. No worries. To each his own. In reality, we could all make do with a .22 LR, .223, .308, .300 Win, .375 H&H, and a 12 gauge.

 

[Flbt]

I personally could live without the .30-40 Krag, the .30 carbine, and the .30 Luger. They’re all old military cartridges with no sporting usefulness. I’m sure I could come up with a bunch more - maybe dozens more. I suppose I could live without most of the .XX Noslers, the .340, .416, and .460 Wby. I actually like most of the Ackleys. That guy had a couple of things figured out.

But, I’m sure all of these have their proponents. No worries. To each his own. In reality, we could all make do with a .22 LR, .223, .308, .300 Win, .375 H&H, and a 12 gauge.

Why does a cartridge need a sporting use?
And the 30 carbine is a good pest cartridge out of a handgun. Coyote, bobcat and smaller hogs works wonders out of a blackhalk

 

[steve white]

Might as well add the 30 Remington

 

[matt85]

I personally could live without the .30-40 Krag, the .30 carbine, and the .30 Luger. They’re all old military cartridges with no sporting usefulness. I’m sure I could come up with a bunch more - maybe dozens more. I suppose I could live without most of the .XX Noslers, the .340, .416, and .460 Wby. I actually like most of the Ackleys. That guy had a couple of things figured out.

But, I’m sure all of these have their proponents. No worries. To each his own. In reality, we could all make do with a .22 LR, .223, .308, .300 Win, .375 H&H, and a 12 gauge.

Quite a few people own vintage guns that need these cartridges. It would be a disaster if they suddenly disappeared!

Target shooting is a sport, therefor all cartridges have a sporting purpose.

 

[RedTag]

.450 Marlin never made sense to me.

 

[matt85]

.450 Marlin never made sense to me.

I believe it was created because no one had yet made a 45-70 lever gun At the time. No reason for a modern gun to be chambered in it now

 

[Slickshooter]

Everything 270

 

[Tex .416]

I believe it was created because no one had yet made a 45-70 lever gun At the time. No reason for a modern gun to be chambered in it now

The Winchester 1886 was available in .45-70.

 

[CBH Australia]

To each his own. In reality, we could all make do with a .22 LR, .223, .308, .300 Win, .375 H&H, and a 12 gauge.

I have those and agree with you. Those are the main ones that I think can cover most of my requirements and it’s basically what I was working toward. Basically the same ones that I will keep to the last. Common affordable and easily sourced ammo and components.

I have a couple in 7mm for something a little different and because I like the calibre options but the ones above will do it all.

 

[grand veneur]

The case volume seems very comparable to the .450 Rigby. If it was loaded down to the .450 Rigby level, could it be a comparable and more pleasant round? Hard to understand why the .450 Rigby is not more popular among the .45 cal fans.

The cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum has a little bit greater case volume than the cartridge 450 Rigby. However, she is also traditionally hotter loaded than the cartridge 450 Rigby. Unfortunately, this has contributed to its poor reputation, especially at a time when the use of big bore cartridges was being phased out. I also don't know why the cartridge 450 Rigby is no much more popular, just as I don't know why the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum is so extremely unpopular, considering the enthusiasm for the use of other, truly non sense big bore cartridges with very stronger recoil. The vast majority of people who have an opinion about the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum don't know this cartridge or have fired it once in their lives with the wrong firearm, and that without any experience handling large caliber rifles. What some have written 60 years ago will then be repeated again and again, unchanged and uncritically. I used the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum for over 30 years, factory loads and reloads with various bullets, and was always very satisfied with its working on heavy dangerous game. I would like to speak with a user who has also used it for years but ultimately concluded that this cartridge is truly worthless. So far, I have not meet anyone like that, unlike a lot of people from the other group I mentioned above.

 

[grand veneur]

When it comes to burying cartridges, the list would be extremely long for me, especially regarding some of the big bore cartridges from the last few decades. To stay with European cartridges, I would quote the cartridge 10,3x68 Magnum. What RWS were thinking behind their design remains somewhat unclear.

 

[Muskox]

300 Weatherby Magnum based on the guy in my safari camp.

Any caliber is good, even if only supported by a dedicated fan, realistically caliber choice should come with testing.

6.5 Creedmoor is not a horrible choice but a beginner needs to realize that you are not going to shoot a moose at 1200 yards the second time you shoot that gun.

This is the Craig Boddington fan boy cartridge. I have used it, it is the hammer of Thor but the recoil and noise are a lot to deal with.

Craig has written a lot about it. I think it was a Rifles Inc gun and a Blaser that lit the fire for him.

 

[Pondoro]

No interest in cartridges developed after 1940.. No rebated rim rounds either..they are abominations..

 

[odonata]

Admittedly, I am naive on the WSM detractors. What is the primary complaint when comparing the 300 Win Mag and the 300 WSM?

In this thread, I think I was the first poster who threw the WSM under a bus along with all of the other acronym-based cartridges. But that was more of a tongue-in-cheek gibe than a merit-based claim that these cartridges were all deficient. If you compare the statistics of a 300 Win Mag to a 300 WSM, they appear to stack up nicely. I think I could have killed everything I've ever put into my freezer with a 300 WSM. If anyone wants to give me a killer deal on a left-handed CRF Model 70 in this chambering, I'm listening (because I love that model of rifle). If you own a 300 WSM, I hope you enjoy it!

My main bias is purely nostalgic. I have a penchant for metric cartridges (e.g. 6.5x55, 7x57, 9.3x62, etc.) & the ones with a 30-06 or 375 H&H parent case. Making cartridges fatter, shorter, rebating rims, intruding longer bullets into the powder space, etc. just to save 12mm in length & shave a few grams seems like an unnecessary complication just to make (what appears to me) a lateral move into a shorter action. When one vendor takes this leap then all of the competitors come out with their particular version as well & start cluttering up the shelves with options that are mostly going to die within a few years. My 6.5 Swede, 30-06's & 375 H&H's will still keep chugging along.

Whenever I look at all of the chamberings that are long-action with a .470 bolt face, my heart gets a warm feeling. When I look at short actions with a .540 bolt face I don't see anything exciting & I just go "blah!". I can't even rebarrel a good deal on one of those rifles into something that interests me.

But that's an emotional argument not a compelling technical one...

 

[Odinsraven]

No interest in cartridges developed after 1940.. No rebated rim rounds either..they are abominations..

Sir what I have been preaching for years - a fellow pilgrim.

 

[Odinsraven]

Why does a cartridge need a sporting use?
And the 30 carbine is a good pest cartridge out of a handgun. Coyote, bobcat and smaller hogs works wonders out of a blackhalk

I have a friend who had a bolt gun built on 30 carbine - uses it for most hunting around his place - loves it !