35 Whelen

[jruby]

I have a 338-06, a couple of 9.3x62a and a 35 whelen. All fine rifles but if I had to get rid of one it would be the whelen. I think the 35 whelen cones in second place to the 9.3s. The 338-06 has local component availability. Fortunately the 35 whelen has a home but I have never shot it. Someday maybe.

 

[Deepfork]

I know this is old but been a long back and forth about the abilities of the Whelen as compared to the .338 Win and I have always contended that given similar pressure levels, the larger cased .338 will rule the roost and I have posted this before in another thread but...with top loads in a 25" Win 70 Alaskan I have safely achieved;

2827 fps with a 250 gr Speer with ME of 4437 ft lbs. This is definitely 375 mag country.
Not saying a Whelen wont do that, but if it does, its going to be in red faced maximum territory and near dangerous.
The Whelen is a wonderful round, but its not quite a .338 Win mag.

My 35 Whelen load:

245gr Hammer Stone Hammer at 2,860fps, ME is 4,449.

25 inch 1/14 barrel, 2000MR Powder. Very safe in my setup, I actually pushed this bullet to 2900fps but backed off a bit when I started seeing pressure.

I am a fan of the .338WM, my 1979 Ruger M77 in .338WM might be my keeper if I could only have one rifle. For a plains game hunt 300 yards and in I will take my 35 Whelen load above over anything I have been able to do with the 338WM.

 

[Deepfork]

I have a 338-06, a couple of 9.3x62a and a 35 whelen. All fine rifles but if I had to get rid of one it would be the whelen. I think the 35 whelen cones in second place to the 9.3s. The 338-06 has local component availability. Fortunately the 35 whelen has a home but I have never shot it. Someday maybe.

I have a 338-06AI and a few 35 Whelens. Problem with the 9.3x62 is I can't make it out of a 30-06 case so its no good to me!

 

[jruby]

I have a 338-06AI and a few 35 Whelens. Problem with the 9.3x62 is I can't make it out of a 30-06 case so its no good to me!

That I agree with this. However buy a few hundred rounds of brass and your set for a long time. You are right in that to reload for a 35 whelen all you need is 30-06 brass. There are a lot of cartridges i shoot that can't be made from 30-06.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have a 338-06, a couple of 9.3x62a and a 35 whelen. All fine rifles but if I had to get rid of one it would be the whelen. I think the 35 whelen cones in second place to the 9.3s. The 338-06 has local component availability. Fortunately the 35 whelen has a home but I have never shot it. Someday maybe.

@jruby
The Whelen will hit harder and do a better job at all ranges than the 338-06 and will give the 9.3 a horrible shake up. It's just that the Whelen ain't DG legal.
Bob

 

[K95]

@jruby
The Whelen will hit harder and do a better job at all ranges than the 338-06 and will give the 9.3 a horrible shake up. It's just that the Whelen ain't DG legal.
Bob

There seems to be conjecture over what the Wehelan will do and will not.
I think the problem lies in the rifles being used. Some of the rifles are made on long and very strong actions like large Mauser and M17s. How they were made and the ability of the gun Smith plays a big part with head spacing, chamber cutting and chamber tolerances. Some are cut to 1 to 2 thou, eliminating case expansion. Actions that lock up like a bank vault and enable the projectile to be seated out increase powder capacity and throw in a longer than normal barrel and you have a horse of a different colour. If you are going to compare cartridge performances the rifles should be the same. Eg a bog standard Remington 700. Same action, same barrel length, same case brands, and loaded to the same pressures, only then do you see a true comparison. Just my 2cents worth.

 

[Deepfork]

There seems to be conjecture over what the Wehelan will do and will not.
I think the problem lies in the rifles being used. Some of the rifles are made on long and very strong actions like large Mauser and M17s. How they were made and the ability of the gun Smith plays a big part with head spacing, chamber cutting and chamber tolerances. Some are cut to 1 to 2 thou, eliminating case expansion. Actions that lock up like a bank vault and enable the projectile to be seated out increase powder capacity and throw in a longer than normal barrel and you have a horse of a different colour. If you are going to compare cartridge performances the rifles should be the same. Eg a bog standard Remington 700. Same action, same barrel length, same case brands, and loaded to the same pressures, only then do you see a true comparison. Just my 2cents worth.

I don't know about all of that.

I have shot my 35 Whelen load above (245gr bullet, 2860fps, ME 4,449) through 4 rifles. Factory original CVA Scout and Ruger M77 African. And through a re-barreled Winchester model 70 and a re-barreled Savage 110 both of which started out as 30-06 rifles. The Winchester has the shortest barrel at 22', velocity average 2812. The Savage 110 has the longest barrel at 25', velocity average 2860. The other two are in the middle (barrel length and velocity). The load is safe in all four rifles, no creative gun smithing work involved at all.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I know this is old but been a long back and forth about the abilities of the Whelen as compared to the .338 Win and I have always contended that given similar pressure levels, the larger cased .338 will rule the roost and I have posted this before in another thread but...with top loads in a 25" Win 70 Alaskan I have safely achieved;

2827 fps with a 250 gr Speer with ME of 4437 ft lbs. This is definitely 375 mag country.
Not saying a Whelen wont do that, but if it does, its going to be in red faced maximum territory and near dangerous.
The Whelen is a wonderful round, but its not quite a .338 Win mag.

Interesting thread indeed. Sometimes it's not a case of case capacity but efficiency of the combustion chamber and application of modern powders. Bob's 35 Whelen, a friends 375 Whelen and my 338-06 are good examples. My 338-06 with bullets up to 250grn are right up there with the Win Mag or just slightly behind it. All the while using less powder and less recoil. My loads and Bob's exceed the figures in the manuels but having been reloading for 62 years and working up slowly it is possible. My loads show no pressure signs. No I don't go by primer appearance but measure case expansion ahead of the web on virgin brass. This doesn't work once the brass has been shot, but a much better indicator of pressure than primers. Not putting down the Win Mag (a great round) but efficiency is an interesting thing. LOL, besides, being an old student of Elmer Keith the 338-06 is a natural off spring of the 333 OKH.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

There seems to be conjecture over what the Wehelan will do and will not.
I think the problem lies in the rifles being used. Some of the rifles are made on long and very strong actions like large Mauser and M17s. How they were made and the ability of the gun Smith plays a big part with head spacing, chamber cutting and chamber tolerances. Some are cut to 1 to 2 thou, eliminating case expansion. Actions that lock up like a bank vault and enable the projectile to be seated out increase powder capacity and throw in a longer than normal barrel and you have a horse of a different colour. If you are going to compare cartridge performances the rifles should be the same. Eg a bog standard Remington 700. Same action, same barrel length, same case brands, and loaded to the same pressures, only then do you see a true comparison. Just my 2cents worth.

@K95
I agree with what you have said but something's just can't be explained, they just seem to work.
My 25 is a case in example. A friend built one using my reamer and the velocities he gets are unexplainable. Like 3,900 fps with an 80gn outer edge and not a max charge. Zero pressure signs, long case life and outstanding accuracy.
I have loaded 100grainers in several 243s and worked up to max charge yet only managed a max velocity in one of just over 2,800fps. The two others barely managed 2,700 fps, while others seem to be able to get close to 3,000fps
Life is full of mysteries that just can't be explained
Bob

 

[K95]

Hi Bob
What I'm trying to say is that if you play around with any cartridge it can be improved. A good gun Smith can do wonders. We both know one of them. What can be done with a 35 Whelen can be done to a 338. Do you know any Whelen that comes close to Nick's 338.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob
What I'm trying to say is that if you play around with any cartridge it can be improved. A good gun Smith can do wonders. We both know one of them. What can be done with a 35 Whelen can be done to a 338. Do you know any Whelen that comes close to Nick's 338.

@K95
Nick's 338 even gives the 340 Weatherby a run for its money but it was built on a magnum length action and long throated so he could pile on the coal.
There's a lot of cartridges out there that can be given a boost with proper reloading techniques and a bit of experience/ experimenting.
Nick proved that over the years. Even his favourite 257 Roberts when loaded to its potential gave the 25-06 a run. Nick and Les Bowman I think it was tried to convince Remington to use their loads but as usual Remington wouldn't have a bar of it.
Getting 3,000 fps with a 150grainer in a 30-06 is easy now and gives the 30 magnums a run but then again the 308win with a healthy ( but safe) does of CFE223 will easily give a 150 grain bullet in excess of 2,900 fps from a 22" tube.
There's a lot can be done now with some of the newer powders around. Just a pity we can't get a lot of them in Australia.
Bob

 

[Flbt]

@K95
Nick's 338 even gives the 340 Weatherby a run for its money but it was built on a magnum length action and long throated so he could pile on the coal.
There's a lot of cartridges out there that can be given a boost with proper reloading techniques and a bit of experience/ experimenting.
Nick proved that over the years. Even his favourite 257 Roberts when loaded to its potential gave the 25-06 a run. Nick and Les Bowman I think it was tried to convince Remington to use their loads but as usual Remington wouldn't have a bar of it.
Getting 3,000 fps with a 150grainer in a 30-06 is easy now and gives the 30 magnums a run but then again the 308win with a healthy ( but safe) does of CFE223 will easily give a 150 grain bullet in excess of 2,900 fps from a 22" tube.
There's a lot can be done now with some of the newer powders around. Just a pity we can't get a lot of them in Australia.
Bob

Look I honestly could not see much difference in the 338 wm and the 358 w the way it hits game.
Now again it might be what o was shooting
And the fact I was using 200gr loads in the 338 and 250 gr in the 358.
I think the bigger bullets hit a bit harder.
But the 35w is faster than my 358.
So if the 338 and 358 did about the same on deer and hogs.
I would like to see the 35w at its faster speed compared the 338 first hand.

I thought it’s like the 357 compared to the 44 spc and the 45 colt.
The 357 might have the ft lbs but the other 2 seems to hit harder ( factory loads) 158gr jsp on the 357 and 255 gr 45 and 200gr swc 44 spc

 

[Rule 303]

Hi Bob
What I'm trying to say is that if you play around with any cartridge it can be improved. A good gun Smith can do wonders. We both know one of them. What can be done with a 35 Whelen can be done to a 338. Do you know any Whelen that comes close to Nick's 338.

I agree, most of my rifles I have had long throated so I can use all the available powder space if the magazine allows the bullets to be seated out. I have noticed an increase in bullet velocity doing this, also I think the extra jump before the rifling allows the bullet to gain more speed before engaging the rifling.

I need to get off my arse and have my Whelen's throat and magazine lengthened. Also need to start doing some more load development with my 35Sambar.

 

[MS 9x56]

I have a 338-06AI and a few 35 Whelens. Problem with the 9.3x62 is I can't make it out of a 30-06 case so its no good to me!

Oh but you can. They even make a die for that.

 

[MS 9x56]

Interesting thread indeed. Sometimes it's not a case of case capacity but efficiency of the combustion chamber and application of modern powders. Bob's 35 Whelen, a friends 375 Whelen and my 338-06 are good examples. My 338-06 with bullets up to 250grn are right up there with the Win Mag or just slightly behind it. All the while using less powder and less recoil. My loads and Bob's exceed the figures in the manuels but having been reloading for 62 years and working up slowly it is possible. My loads show no pressure signs. No I don't go by primer appearance but measure case expansion ahead of the web on virgin brass. This doesn't work once the brass has been shot, but a much better indicator of pressure than primers. Not putting down the Win Mag (a great round) but efficiency is an interesting thing. LOL, besides, being an old student of Elmer Keith the 338-06 is a natural off spring of the 333 OKH.

I love it when Elmer rears that ugly mug of his. I have been and Elmer disciple for over 30 years.

 

[Deepfork]

Oh but you can. They even make a die for that.

Really!?!? I want one!

 

[jruby]

The problem is that many of the cartridges that are being talked about are no longer Sammi speced. You can do a lot of things with a cartridge such as extending COAL or pressure which is hard to properly measure by us laymen. Shooting 300g bullets out of a 35 whelen is not documented in most reloading manuals. To me these are stunts and one offs. I prefer to stick with boring but tested loads that have been pressure tested. Your milage may very.

 

[Flbt]

The problem is that many of the cartridges that are being talked about are no longer Sammi speced. You can do a lot of things with a cartridge such as extending COAL or pressure which is hard to properly measure by us laymen. Shooting 300g bullets out of a 35 whelen is not documented in most reloading manuals. To me these are stunts and one offs. I prefer to stick with boring but tested loads that have been pressure tested. Your milage may very.

Didn’t hornday have a 300 gr 35w factory load?
Thought I saw them on cdnn investment awhile back

 

[jruby]

Didn’t hornday have a 300 gr 35w factory load?
Thought I saw them on cdnn investment awhile back

Sure not in thier reloading manual.

 

[Rule 303]

The problem is that many of the cartridges that are being talked about are no longer Sammi speced. You can do a lot of things with a cartridge such as extending COAL or pressure which is hard to properly measure by us laymen. Shooting 300g bullets out of a 35 whelen is not documented in most reloading manuals. To me these are stunts and one offs. I prefer to stick with boring but tested loads that have been pressure tested. Your milage may very.

If I remember correctly John Taylor used 300 grain bullets in his 350 Rigby and said they penetrated as well as 375H&H 300 grain bullet. The 350 Rigby of his day had about the same performance of a 35Whelen.

Also not many reloading manuals give you loads for the 275 grain 358 bullet. No stunts at all just very limited application/use.