20 vs 28 gauge

[DLSJR]

I assumed that had to be the case. I own and regularly use a number of golden age guns from the UK and the Continent. I have a lot of confidence in my .410 double. It has cleanly taken a hundreds of quail. I would use a 28 on a decoying birds loaded with a soft no 6 matrix, but I would have to think about the .410.

You’d be stunned at how effective a 410 loaded with TSS is on any bird, including Honkers. I’ve got a friend from the south who comes to hunt waterfowl with me in Idaho. He brings Foxtrot Ammo TSS shells loaded with a mixture of 9’s&10’s. He’s got right at 300 pellets in a 3” 410 load. I’ve seen him shoots dozens of mallards and probably 20 big Canadians with that little gun and it’s devastating. My son was breasting out a bunch of honkers we’d shot and he called to tell me he had to toss some of the breasts as they were too bloodshot to eat. I asked him what the heck he was shooting in his gun and he replied that the birds he shot were fine but that some of the birds shot with those TSS shells were a mess. He also told me he picked the backs of some of those birds and that a lot of the pellets had gone clear through the geese.

 

[archer36]

You’d be stunned at how effective a 410 loaded with TSS is on any bird, including Honkers. I’ve got a friend from the south who comes to hunt waterfowl with me in Idaho. He brings Foxtrot Ammo TSS shells loaded with a mixture of 9’s&10’s. He’s got right at 300 pellets in a 3” 410 load. I’ve seen him shoots dozens of mallards and probably 20 big Canadians with that little gun and it’s devastating. My son was breasting out a bunch of honkers we’d shot and he called to tell me he had to toss some of the breasts as they were too bloodshot to eat. I asked him what the heck he was shooting in his gun and he replied that the birds he shot were fine but that some of the birds shot with those TSS shells were a mess. He also told me he picked the backs of some of those birds and that a lot of the pellets had gone clear through the geese.

Yeah, all those tiny pellets don't make for good eating. I'll stick with my large steel shot and a 12 ga for that kind of hunting. This fascination with downsizing your weapon is a ploy by gun manufacturers to sell moe guns and everyone is buying it.

 

[Rubberhead]

Oh, one thing I wanted to mention, SAAMI has added a 3" 28 gauge standard. If I were getting a new 28 gauge, especially to include clay shooting, I'd make sure that I got one with a 3" chamber.

Don't get me wrong, I do not believe in "stuffing" sub-gauge shells. It's always seemed silly to me to get a 28 gauge then feed it with 7/8 or 1 full ounce of shot. But, with many places and clay courses now requiring non-toxic shot, the extra payload room in a 3" 28 gauge opens a few options for light density shot like steel that don't exist with the standard 2 3/4" shells.

 

[mdwest]

The 28 ga is a "fad". It will die out eventually. The 12 and 20 can take care of everything. The only reason the 28 has a revival is because of new "hevi-shot" ammo. But, who wants to spend that kind of money on high volume shoots?

Ummm.. 28ga rolled out for the first time in 1880... Im not sure 140+ years equals a "fad"....

Winchester first released commercial shells for the 20 ga in 1886..

The 12 ga became popular in the US in the mid 1860's...

16ga first became popular in 1889 when Parker rolled out their first 16ga shotgun..

.410 first became popular in the US in 1859 when Eley started producing factory cartridges in .410

The point is, its been around +/- the same amount of time as the more popular calibers.. and has continued to do well and survive the entire period.. theres been no revival.. its always taken a back seat to 20 and 12, and will continue to do so.. but.. it has also had a loyal following, just like 16 and 410, that has been significant enough to maintain its existence from day one, and there is no indication thats going to change anytime in the near future..

FWIW, according to Grok, 28ga holds about 2% of all shotgun sales in the US and has done so reliably and consistently for the last 4 decades.

Considering that 12ga is 68% of the US market, 20ga makes us 26% and everything else combined only gets 6%… it appears the 28 is doing just as well if not better than others honestly…

 

[gcbailey]

I love all the shotgun gauges, with the exception of .410. I understand your reasoning for going to a lower gauge, but have you considered shooting a light 12 gauge with 2 1/2" or reduced load shells? Some of my 2 1/2" 12s shoot as softly as a 28 gauge.

 

[archer36]

Ummm.. 28ga rolled out for the first time in 1880... Im not sure 140+ years equals a "fad"....

Winchester first released commercial shells for the 20 ga in 1886..

The 12 ga became popular in the US in the mid 1860's...

16ga first became popular in 1889 when Parker rolled out their first 16ga shotgun..

.410 first became popular in the US in 1859 when Eley started producing factory cartridges in .410

The point is, its been around +/- the same amount of time as the more popular calibers.. and has continued to do well and survive the entire period.. theres been no revival.. its always taken a back seat to 20 and 12, and will continue to do so.. but.. it has also had a loyal following, just like 16 and 410, that has been significant enough to maintain its existence from day one, and there is no indication thats going to change anytime in the near future..

FWIW, according to Grok, 28ga holds about 2% of all shotgun sales in the US and has done so reliably and consistently for the last 4 decades.

Considering that 12ga is 68% of the US market, 20ga makes us 26% and everything else combined only gets 6%… it appears the 28 is doing just as well if not better than others honestly…

It's a "fad" because for a hundred years, the 28 ga wasn't even thought about. Now, there is so much talk about the "magic" of the gauge. No doubt a seed planted by gun manufactueres to sell more guns. If you have a 12 or 20, no need to run out and get a 28. It will not do anything better.
Gun manufacturers roll out and re-introduce new gauges/calibers to increase sales. Same applies to rifles. If you own a .270 or 30.06 and hunt North American Game, no need to run out and buy a 6.5. It will not do any/much better.

 

[jeanes]

Out of curiosity what make and model .410 do u and your other members use?

870 Remington Wingmaster from the 1980's.

 

[BeeMaa]

TSS is a game changer when it comes to taking game, provided the shotgun is capable of handling these loads.

I don’t see the additional cost as a disadvantage because I typically shoot much fewer shots and come home with more birds than those using steel and bismuth.

 

[mdwest]

It's a "fad" because for a hundred years, the 28 ga wasn't even thought about. Now, there is so much talk about the "magic" of the gauge. No doubt a seed planted by gun manufactueres to sell more guns. If you have a 12 or 20, no need to run out and get a 28. It will not do anything better.
Gun manufacturers roll out and re-introduce new gauges/calibers to increase sales. Same applies to rifles. If you own a .270 or 30.06 and hunt North American Game, no need to run out and buy a 6.5. It will not do any/much better.

the actual numbers conflict with your argument...

for 40 years the 28 ga has consistently represented about 2% of the market.. they arent selling any more or any less guns or ammo in 2025 than they were in 2015..

you personally may now be hanging around (online or in person) with more 28ga shooters..

but industry stats on both ammo and gun sales show its been consistent for decades..

 

[skydiver386]

The 28 ga is a "fad". It will die out eventually. The 12 and 20 can take care of everything. The only reason the 28 has a revival is because of new "hevi-shot" ammo. But, who wants to spend that kind of money on high volume shoots?

Actually the 28ga is mandatory in skeet competition. This is why shooters have 4 barrel sets in 12, 20, 28 and .410 bore. Competition starts with the 12, and proceeds to the 20, then 28, and last is the .410 bore.

Sub-gauge inserts are also made for this exact reason.

Watch Olympic Skeet and you'll see this.

 

[jeanes]

As long as the NSSA and the NSCA recognize the 28 GA for competition it will be around. Non-recognition by the associations is one reason why the 16 GA isn't more popular. Also, I believe an aging hunter/shooter population is another reason for the increasing interest in 28's.

 

[BeeMaa]

Actually the 28ga is mandatory in skeet competition. This is why shooters have 4 barrel sets in 12, 20, 28 and .410 bore. Competition starts with the 12, and proceeds to the 20, then 28, and last is the .410 bore.

Sub-gauge inserts are also made for this exact reason.

Watch Olympic Skeet and you'll see this.

And why systems like the Blaser F3 are so popular.

 

[wesheltonj]

It's a "fad" because for a hundred years, the 28 ga wasn't even thought about. Now, there is so much talk about the "magic" of the gauge. No doubt a seed planted by gun manufactueres to sell more guns. If you have a 12 or 20, no need to run out and get a 28. It will not do anything better.
Gun manufacturers roll out and re-introduce new gauges/calibers to increase sales. Same applies to rifles. If you own a .270 or 30.06 and hunt North American Game, no need to run out and buy a 6.5. It will not do any/much better.

I don't know where you live. But if you want a "southern gentlemen's quail hunt," and show up with anything else you will be an outcast. That's the only reason, that I own one. I would prefer to use a 12 or 20. However, the older I get the more I prefer the 20, but I still have cases of 12 to shoot up first.

 

[rookhawk]

I know its probably a dead horse and I did a search, only found some goofy banter. I sold my Benelli Ethos Sport 12 gauge. I now need to replace it. I'm an oldie (73) and don't like the recoil anymore. SO, I'm going to a 20 or 28. I only hunt doves and shoot SC, 5-stand and Skeet.

In y'alls opinion, if I buy a 28 will I be giving away many birds? I think modern factory loaded 28's will keep up with the 20.

I don't shoot a ton of rounds so the slightly higher ammo costs is not a worry

I respect everyone's opinion here.

28 bore has a remarkable reputation for hitting above its weight class. The top max load is 15/16ths of an ounce so they are quite formidable for your tasks.

The problem is that you're going to get an awful 28 gauge until you're spending well, well into 5-figures. It will be very heavy, all for the perception of being diminutive when it is not.

On the other hand, a British vintage 12 bore boxlock with 2.5" chambers will typically shoot a 1 ounce load, marginally more payload than your modern 28 bore. The gun will weight 6.5lbs and carry better than the 28 bore mass produced options.

In addition, all things being equal (shot charge, velocity, gun weight) the larger bore diameter will always have a superior pattern. A 12 bore with a 15/16 charge will have a more even pattern, lower pressure, less shot malformation, and less stringing than an identical scenario from a 28 bore.

 

[ACE (in CT)]

... If you have a 12 or 20, no need to run out and get a 28. It will not do anything better.
... Same applies to rifles. If you own a .270 or 30.06 and hunt North American Game, no need to run out and buy a 6.5. It will not do any/much better.

"NEED"? What is this Need thing you speak of?

 

[Boone66]

They believe by hunting each blind only once or twice a week and with 28’s & 410’s, they hold more ducks. They’re not as loud, so they don’t chase birds out as much. When the birds are down from Alberta/Saskatchewan, it’s about as good as duck hunting can be. Many days that 3 of us have brought in 21 green heads shot with 28’s.

The club actually dropped 20’s a few years ago and now is only 28s & 410s. They work a lot better than you might expect. 410’s are a faint drop off but 28’s are fine out past 30 yards and 30 is as far as we shoot.View attachment 70070628 gauge hunt.

Thanks, that makes sense now, so they are roosting ponds or holding ponds, nice. GF has a 28ga and the only small bore I have is a old savage single shot. 410, I'd have to get inserts for my 16ga.

 

[Red Leg]

28 bore has a remarkable reputation for hitting above its weight class. The top max load is 15/16ths of an ounce so they are quite formidable for your tasks.

The problem is that you're going to get an awful 28 gauge until you're spending well, well into 5-figures. It will be very heavy, all for the perception of being diminutive when it is not.

On the other hand, a British vintage 12 bore boxlock with 2.5" chambers will typically shoot a 1 ounce load, marginally more payload than your modern 28 bore. The gun will weight 6.5lbs and carry better than the 28 bore mass produced options.

In addition, all things being equal (shot charge, velocity, gun weight) the larger bore diameter will always have a superior pattern. A 12 bore with a 15/16 charge will have a more even pattern, lower pressure, less shot malformation, and less stringing than an identical scenario from a 28 bore.

Exactly. Sadly, the owners of quail plantations and leases have it in their rather ignorant heads that a 1 0unce load from a 6.5 lb 12 bore is overkill and somehow unfair, while 7/8 ounces from a 28 is the ideal of ethical shooting.

 

[rookhawk]

Exactly. Sadly, the owners of quail plantations and leases have it in their rather ignorant heads that a 1 0unce load from a 6.5 lb 12 bore is overkill and somehow unfair, while 7/8 ounces from a 28 is the ideal of ethical shooting.

Would the typical plantation tolerate a 16 bore? As you know the prices skyrocket exponentially from 12-16-20-28/410. A really nice 12 bore can be found for $2500 and up, $3500 and up for a 16, $4500 and up for a 20, $10,000 and way up for the 28 / 410 options.

Trying to save the guy a few bucks so he can get a better quality gun for his dollars.

 

[Red Leg]

Would the typical plantation tolerate a 16 bore? As you know the prices skyrocket exponentially from 12-16-20-28/410. A really nice 12 bore can be found for $2500 and up, $3500 and up for a 16, $4500 and up for a 20, $10,000 and way up for the 28 / 410 options.

Trying to save the guy a few bucks so he can get a better quality gun for his dollars.

Nope. Show up with a twenty and most will let you shoot/hunt but they would definitely still look down their aquiline noses at such an unnecessary canon. The 28 in either OU or SxS configuration is appropriate. An truly excellent shot with a .410 is equally welcome.

 

[rookhawk]

Nope. Show up with a twenty and most will let you shoot/hunt but they would definitely still look down their aquiline noses at such an unnecessary canon. The 28 in either OU or SxS configuration is appropriate. An truly excellent shot with a .410 is equally welcome.

Bummer.

@Ltach578 what is your budget for this endeavor? The group may have better ideas if we know how much you intend to spend.

Also, O/U or SxS or either? Single or double trigger or either? Ejector or Extractor or either?

I'm thinking a 1990s Orvis Beretta O/U 20bore with 26" barrels and a single trigger with a straight english stock might be the least expensive, decent shotgun for this task. (the 28 gauge equivalent is a terrible gun that weights 1lb more)