Rifle/ammo failure on Elephant

[bimbo]

Sì, mi aveva suggerito @Red Leg. Prima di ogni battuta di caccia con un doppietto, finisco per sparare almeno 500 piattelli con un SxS al mio poligono di tiro

Mi piacerebbe sapere dove sono andati a segno tutti quei colpi. Alcuni dei primi colpi dovevano essere piazzati piuttosto vicino al bersaglio, altrimenti non sarebbero riusciti a inseguire il toro per i colpi successivi. Dovrò riguardare la scena e contarne quanti. Verso la fine, il cliente ha premuto ripetutamente lo stesso grilletto a canna vuota?

In Zim years ago ,a bull ele have got 4 shots of 700 NE in his head no far of the brain without go down!!!PH was a friend of mine Claudio Chiarelli passed off in 2016 during antipoaching work ...a lot of people don t immagine what can get an elephant and still is able to run off or charge too!

 

[Rare Breed]

Hi guys!

Not sure if this video is already here, but I would like to know why so many shoots? (its normal?) and why the rifle /ammo failure?

pew-pew starts at 36 min mark

I feel sorry for the guy but I could not help thinking a grenade would have been better in his hands than his DR. I watched all the shots where the bullet impact was apparent…it is very clear he just kept missing the correct kill zone starting with his first shot which was way too low on the shoulder. When the bull first ran away why he did not shoot to break the back leg anchoring him is beyond me. Then he missed the brain badly on two standing perfect side shots shooting well behind the ear hole. The elephant God rest his soul finally surrendered

 

[Tanks]

In Zim years ago ,a bull ele have got 4 shots of 700 NE in his head no far of the brain without go down!!!

Obviously, it didn't penetrate to hit the brain. First video I posted above there were pieces of brain splattered all along the side of the elephant when the bullet exited.

 

[Brian]

I mentioned in my post that I never shoot DG with gloves on. But I have to agree with wearing a glove on the left hand incase of hot barrels on a double. A glove on your front hand would not likely cause trouble when reloading. I stand corrected.

The client made a mess of it, but at the end of the video he spoke like he was the "real deal" and did a good job. It was difficult to watch.

I admire how the PH kept himself together, focused, calm and not judgemental. He was a real man with nerves of steel.

 

[Fordy]

Gday altitude sickness
Aim small miss small is a saying we have

IMHO the best way to prepare to kill animals is to kill animals. With your chosen weapon. It really does not matter what the animal is.

A example
For me when I am out with my binoculars trying to stalk up on a sitting rabbit and shoot him where he sits. With a bow or rifle. (I won’t shoot them sitting with a scattergun) and I am completely focused on finding, stalking and getting a shot. I am as excited as with any other animal. The target animal doesn’t matter if the hunt is done correctly.
Now kicking a brush pile and blasting him with a shotgun is still fun. But it’s a different hunt.

I have had friends that were such trophy hunters. Passing inferior sized animals for years. Only to screw the pooch when crunch time finally came for them.

You need to experience a lot of (crunch times) with your weapon to be completely ready. The only way to come close with a paper target is adding stress by having people watch you shoot. It’s not the same but more practical for most hunters.

Shooting in competition or with someone that shoots better than yourself is a good added stress. A key learned skill is to block out all external distractions and focus on the fundamentals.

Rabbits with .458 WM one frontal brain View attachment 692646View attachment 692647

X2 on this above & great trigger skills & lucky the frontal brain worked as those guys on a full on charge can be ferocious lol


We have big bore fun days


Heres a few of the critters we take

& if it’s flying it’s fair game also in certain situations on my property if backdrop is safe as that gives that little different shot angle that conditions oneself to another angle scenario

Practice as many different things as possible & getting in close to these guys is so much fun while teaching us a lot

Cheers

 

[bimbo]

Obviously, it didn't penetrate to hit the brain. First video I posted above there were pieces of brain splattered all along the side of the elephant when the bullet exited.

 

[bimbo]

Ok it did not penetrate.This I have known !
I did mean show which some times also when hitting with a monster rifle like 700NE and its 1200grs ,an elephant can has stun but still now on its feet!Secons many expert when hitted with large caliber elephant go always down also when the brain did missed...

 

[skydiver386]

Gday altitude sickness
Aim small miss small is a saying we have

X2 on this above & great trigger skills & lucky the frontal brain worked as those guys on a full on charge can be ferocious lol


We have big bore fun days


Heres a few of the critters we take
View attachment 692745View attachment 692746View attachment 692749View attachment 692751View attachment 692752View attachment 692753View attachment 692750
& if it’s flying it’s fair game also in certain situations on my property if backdrop is safe as that gives that little different shot angle that conditions oneself to another angle scenario

Practice as many different things as possible & getting in close to these guys is so much fun while teaching us a lot

Cheers

I'm guessing you live in Australia. You fellas have no end of invasive species that need to be thinned out.

Saw a video of camel culling and couldn't believe how much habitat destruction those things do.

 

[Fordy]

Gday skydiver386

I'm guessing you live in Australia. You fellas have no end of invasive species that need to be thinned out.

Saw a video of camel culling and couldn't believe how much habitat destruction those things do.

Yes sir I’m @ the bottom of Aussie on what’s often called the apple isle

We have absolutely insane numbers in certain areas & quite a few numbers in other areas but you’ll go through areas that do seem somewhat devoid of any critters so not everywhere but totally have more than we can handle

I’m actively involved in a trying to show the antis to our sport of hunting is a extremely important/valuable tool in the balance & preservation of our native species ( some of those are rampant & need culling also to bring back in balance ) & even some of our introduced species that are basically ingrained in our specific regions also need management & one I’m proud to say we’ve made some inroads on my hunting property with & one that still has some ways to go but I enjoy the challenge but true conservation is a longroad with a whole picture not one sided or short term view imo

Overall we have some extremely fragile ecosystems that need protection & what better way than having hunters help out some of those areas along with our cool critters & just wish we could process the meat as a lot are left to rot

Those camels are a real problem but good for testing the preformance /capability of a bullet along with a lot of other critters so a lot of aussies are spoiled with numbers but the places /properties that are available for the ( with respect) general hunter to get access too are becoming harder to find but one with respect & perseverance & circles created it’s amazing how this big country of ours becomes pretty small

Sorry for derail I’ll go back to my hole lol
Cheers

 

[Ontario Hunter]

For the record, I haven’t seen this video but it’s like hundreds of others. I’m so glad most of my mistakes have been made before cell phones and internet. I disagree about not having it available to view, It can help hunters avoid similar mistakes in the field. As far as a non-hunters take, do we ban bad driving videos or construction failures? Use them as talking points and own up to people making mistakes in all fields and hobbies.

When people who don't know how to drive get behind the wheel and cause accidents, it wins money on America's Funniest Videos. There is nothing to be learned from this shitshow. Elephant suffered horribly and unnecessarily. I know I never want to hunt with either of those guys. You'd think they would have edited out the client's fumble-fest reloading his double rifle ... multiple times. I've shot one round out of a double rifle once in my life and I could have handled it better than that. Doubt he would have done any better with a bolt rifle. I honestly don't think he knew anything about guns or hunting. But boy he sure was dressed for the part.

I skipped to minute 35. Where were they hunting? Looked like the back side of the moon. Elephants acted like they just escaped from the San Diego Zoo. Overall it was a horrible video. What I saw of it anyway. One of the worst I've seen. I hope the safari operator reads this.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Sad and hard to watch.

So much to unpack on so many levels. Because I haven’t hunted Ele I’ll refrain on a personal level.

In any type of hunting the animal deserves better than an unsure and unpracticed ego driven pursuit.

 

[Huvius]

There are about ten layers of mistakes and potential problems with this hunt.

I quit racing motorcycles many years ago.
Can I still ride fast? yes
Can I withstand a fall as well as I could then? Hell NO!!
So, I don't do it.

I know that an elephant hunt or most any African Safari for that matter is cost prohibitive for most folks until later in their lives.
I think it's incumbent upon ourselves as hunters and the Guides and PHs to face some harsh facts about our individual ability, fitness and stamina.
What if the elephant decided to repay the offense and stomp this guy and or the PH or staff?
Who's going to take the responsibility in that situation?
It's like sending an old guy out to run with the bulls in Pamplona.

In this era of easy technology and planning, I don't think it would be out of line for the outfitters to request a video of their potential clients working their firearms at least to gauge their competency and fitness. Then, make suggestions (requirements) that the client can work on or make the decision to advise the client against such a hunt.

None of us are getting any younger and I'm not saying that age is the only or even primary adversity this hunter has to deal with - but there's a time when we must accept reality and either move up or move on.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Anyone who can afford a fancy Heym double rifle can afford to lose a few pieces of brass ... or a whole box.

Anyway, trackers usually pick up my brass for me. They can spot a 30-06 case at thirty yards in an acacia thicket.

Very bad shooting and VERY bad taste publishing the video. Gad, I would not want my friends and family seeing me screw up like that. And the poor elephant. Tsk tsk. Nothing to be proud of there. But I honestly think the hunter knows so little about hunting that he didn't realize how bad he looked. I guess the PH is stuck in the middle. Client pays the big bucks for the video production. Is PH going to tell his client publishing this disaster is not smart? That would mean telling him it was a disaster. Bye-bye big tip! During my lifetime afield I've had several offers to get involved in guiding hunters. I'm smart enough to know that line of work is not for me. My skin isn't thick enough.

 

[crackerman]

There are about ten layers of mistakes and potential problems with this hunt.

In this era of easy technology and planning, I don't think it would be out of line for the outfitters to request a video of their potential clients working their firearms at least to gauge their competency and fitness. Then, make suggestions (requirements) that the client can work on or make the decision to advise the client against such a hunt.

None of us are getting any younger and I'm not saying that age is the only or even primary adversity this hunter has to deal with - but there's a time when we must accept reality and either move up or move on.

I think it was thread that someone said of you can’t hit an 8” plate the guide wouldn’t let you shoot farther than that. Great strategy and I would hire that guide but would most stay in business if they enforced that?

I kept sending my PH picks of my 200 yard stick practice and asking for tips, again I think the average hunter on this site is in the top 20% of safari hunters simply because we ask these questions.

Many of us have think we are better than we are and don’t always have this clarity.

 

[Raven]

The case when you want to say that you feel sorry for an elephant. I understand that they don't say that on the hunting website, but nevertheless.

 

[JHT]

There’s a reason why the government refused to show the death photos of Osama Bin Laden. There’s a reason why the producers of The Crocodile Hunter never released the death video of Steve Irwin. There’s a reason why I delete all the photos off my iPhone where I look like a complete fatass. And there's a reason why we all flush after using the restroom.

Sh*t clearly happens and I get that, but I wish it weren't broadcast on YouTube where it might be weaponized against us. Clearly, Safari Classics owns the footage and wishes to make a return on their investment - and I get that as well. I think it's a safe bet that if the hunter owned it (the footage), it would never have seen the light of day. Had I been the hunter, I would have mortgaged everything I owned, including that beautiful Heym to purchase it. However, you cannot put the toothpaste back into the tube and if there is a lesson to be learned here, I believe it to be that dangerous game hunting in Africa is no time for target practice. An elephant is more likely to kill you while hunting one than any other animal on the planet.

Free advice is obviously worth what you pay for it, and you can disregard mine if you may; however, my suggestion is, if you wish to hunt the largest land mammal on planet Earth, then get a weapon that, at least, begins with a "4." One that you can operate upside down while under murky water. One that you have such an intimate knowledge of that if half of your brain were removed, you would still be able to fully and functionally operate and, once empty, one you can quickly reload without looking down while sprinting as fast as you can while jumping over rocks and downed trees.

Further, you must also begin your study of elephant anatomy and be able to ascertain the brain from both the front and sides - the frontal being the most difficult one to learn. The heart/lung area is gigantic (together with the huge arteries immediately adjacent) and should require little study. Just be careful not to hit the animal the stomach as, like Bell puts it, "you may be in for a lively time, as nothing seems to anger them more than a shot so placed." The last shot I would recommend learning is where to aim as the elephant flees from you in the event of a heart/lung shot or if your brain shot has missed its mark. In that case, to anchor the animal, I would recommend the ball and socket area where the back legs go into the hips or, in desperation, at the base of the tail. Of course, these latter shots should only be attempted as a "second volley" after your original heart/lung shots and/or attempted brain shots.

In closing, please understand that I’m not professing to be a professional ivory hunter, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

There’s a reason why the government refused to show the death photos of Osama Bin Laden. There’s a reason why the producers of The Crocodile Hunter never released the death video of Steve Irwin. There’s a reason why I delete all the photos off my iPhone where I look like a complete fatass. And there's a reason why we all flush after using the restroom.

Sh*t clearly happens and I get that, but I wish it weren't broadcast on YouTube where it might be weaponized against us. Clearly, Safari Classics owns the footage and wishes to make a return on their investment - and I get that as well. I think it's a safe bet that if the hunter owned it (the footage), it would never have seen the light of day. Had I been the hunter, I would have mortgaged everything I owned, including that beautiful Heym to purchase it. However, you cannot put the toothpaste back into the tube and if there is a lesson to be learned here, I believe it to be that dangerous game hunting in Africa is no time for target practice. An elephant is more likely to kill you while hunting one than any other animal on the planet.

Free advice is obviously worth what you pay for it, and you can disregard mine if you may; however, my suggestion is, if you wish to hunt the largest land mammal on planet Earth, then get a weapon that, at least, begins with a "4." One that you can operate upside down while under murky water. One that you have such an intimate knowledge of that if half of your brain were removed, you would still be able to fully and functionally operate and, once empty, one you can quickly reload without looking down while sprinting as fast as you can while jumping over rocks and downed trees.

Further, you must also begin your study of elephant anatomy and be able to ascertain the brain from both the front and sides - the frontal being the most difficult one to learn. The heart/lung area is gigantic (together with the huge arteries immediately adjacent) and should require little study. Just be careful not to hit the animal the stomach as, like Bell puts it, "you may be in for a lively time, as nothing seems to anger them more than a shot so placed." The last shot I would recommend learning is where to aim as the elephant flees from you in the event of a heart/lung shot or if your brain shot has missed its mark. In that case, to anchor the animal, I would recommend the ball and socket area where the back legs go into the hips or, in desperation, at the base of the tail. Of course, these latter shots should only be attempted as a "second volley" after your original heart/lung shots and/or attempted brain shots.

In closing, please understand that I’m not professing to be a professional ivory hunter, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I think Safari Classics would have made a better return on their investment if they'd left a lot of the screw-ups on the cutting room floor. Clearly some stuff was edited out between the first artillery barrage and the final shots. But why keep that footage of him fumbling with his gun (endlessly!) or the slap-happy shooting at elephant on the run (which I suspect missed entirely). Not the memories anyone would want to keep. Ah ... maybe the client didn't pay up for his portion of the video production? Retribution can be a bitch. It seems odd for sure.

 

[mrpoindexter]

If you don’t want to end up like this chap then practice a lot. Get that muscle memory correct. As well as being mentally prepared for the occasion. That's a tuff one to get right. But get to the zoo and get up close to them would be a good way to go about it. Im sure someone here would know how to simulate the stress that comes with the confrontation of a hunt like this? If so maybe you can enlighten us.
It would be hard to get the smell, heat etc but you could get the sound. Here's the one at Holland & Holland

There is an archery version of this and my local shop has one they are looking to sell off. Sadly, I don't have a spot for it in my garage and don't really have a place (yet) where I can set it up, but I have considered getting something like this. I just think that for an individual, it would end up like an exercise machine - lots of use for a couple weeks and then a life of being a place to hang your laundry.

The shop that has it has only rented it out a few times over the years. It seems to me that it should be getting more interest. Maybe it is a marketing thing and maybe people just don't want to put in that level of practice/training.

 

[Mats Bergholm]

I hunted a bull elephant in Dande, August last year with Len Taylor. Couldn't ask for a better PH than Len. Shot a nice representative bull, hart lung shot at 15 yards, Len followed up with a hart lungshot because the elephant was going away, and I anchored it with a hip shot. The bull went down after 5 yards. I used my trusty old Webley & Scott sbs double in .450/.400 3 1/4" Nitro Express, handloaded 400 grain Woodleigh solids, Len used a .458 Lott.

Im not sure if its wrong to show a film when things goes really wrong. It should rather be a lesson learned for any hunter going after dangerous game that an expensive large caliber rifle with fancy engraving doesnt compensate for lack of training.

Thanks Len for guiding me on a hunt in a life time.

 

[Raven]

I sent a link to this video to a friend, but he couldn't watch it. Access to the video is currently limited. This is probably the right thing to do.