CZ550 Safari Magnum? Check, Winchester Model 70 Safari Express? Check. What affordable dangerous game rifle should I consider next?

[spike.t]

Here @Northern Shooter sorted...

Ruger M77 Magnum .416 Rigby

Looking to move my Ruger M77 Magnum chambered in 416 Rigby. One owner rifle - bought new in 1995. As the pictures show this is an outstanding rifle in excellent condition. The gun has been hunted in Africa a few times but shows a little evidence of this. There are a few small marks on the...

www.africahunting.com

 

[Just a dude in BC]

@Velo Dog @Ontario Hunter

I think a lot of it is not necessarily "velocity madness" as it is "numerical comparison fixation" being driven by new tools and software. 20-30 years ago, almost nobody had chronographs. Almost nobody had cellphones, and cell phones were just phones. Few people even had adjustable optics, and almost none of them had target turrets.

These days you can have doppler radar on the bench that talks to software on your phone which outputs exactly how to set the target turrets on your 50 power scope. Since these things now exist, people have the ability to fixate on the minutia (How high is the BC) (How fast is the starting velocity) and so on. Those fixations led to customer demand, and that drives production.

I have no problem with any of that, I do quite a bit of long range shooting. The problem is that people are now trying to justify the products of their fixation, by taking unethically long shots on game, AND they are having to contrive situations where they can shoot that far. Literally looking for places to take ultra long shots on game.

In the end, the terrain + game should dictate caliber and bullet selection. However, some people are hunting sexy stories as much as an animal, and to them saying "I shot an animal at infinity billion yards" sounds sexy to them.

 

[Jack Stevens]

As the title says, looking for other affordable dangerous game rifles similar to those above.
What would be the next logical choice? I'm open to all caliber options aside from 375 and 458.

Unless you’ve got the discretionary income of Elon Musk or Donald Trump, you’re going about it the wrong way. Forget the Old School classics in the .400-class like the .404J, .425WR, and probably the 416 Rigby. Even if you could score a little-fired custom magazine rifle in one of these chamberings, the ammo and components have dried up into unobtainium status. And in the rare instances when they do appear somewhere in small allotments, they’re expensively priced and disappear quickly, bought up by guys who already have one or more rifles in these calibers.

I might buy a high-end custom .404J but that would only be because I already have one and, after years of purchasing in a less-costly market, am well-stocked on Hornady .404 ammo and much .404 brass and .423 bullets. So for me it would make sense. I wouldn’t think about buying a .425 or .416 rifle today as attractive as the pride-of-ownership factor might make it.

Instead, you should be looking at what DG cartridges (and their necessary components for reloading, brass and bullets primarily) are “commonly available” on the current market.

That’s no doubt a relative calculus, but in my view that’s going to be cartridges like the .375s (H&H/Ruger), the .458 Win Mag, and maybe the 416 Ruger. You can still find good rifles and factory ammo and handloading components for all these rounds on various sites, like the auctions sites or on the classifieds sub-forums of Hunting boards like this one or AR or maybe Nitro Express.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Unless you’ve got the discretionary income of Elon Musk or Donald Trump, you’re going about it the wrong way. Forget the Old School classics in the .400-class like the .404J, .425WR, and probably the 416 Rigby. Even if you could score a little-fired custom magazine rifle in one of these chamberings, the ammo and components have dried up into unobtainium status. And in the rare instances when they do appear somewhere in small allotments, they’re expensively priced and disappear quickly, bought up by guys who already have one or more rifles in these calibers.

I might buy a high-end custom .404J but that would only be because I already have one and, after years of purchasing in a less-costly market, am well-stocked on Hornady .404 ammo and much .404 brass and .423 bullets. So for me it would make sense. I wouldn’t think about buying a .425 or .416 rifle today as attractive as the pride-of-ownership factor might make it.

Instead, you should be looking for DG cartridges (and their necessary components for reloading, brass and bullets primarily) that are “commonly available” on the current market.

That’s no doubt a relative calculus, but in my view that’s going to be cartridges like the .375s (H&H/Ruger), the .458 Win Mag, and maybe the 416 Ruger. You can still find good rifles and factory ammo and handloading components for all these rounds on various sites, like the auctions sites or on the classifieds sub-forums of Hunting boards like this one or AR or maybe Nitro Express.

Thanks for your input, ammo availability, obscurity and costs all factor into this decision. I have pre-emptively decided to go with the .416 Ruger since ammo is still decently available here and costs roughly half the cost of .416 Rigby. I have already started purchasing .416 Ammo, now I just need to find the rifle. If only Ruger would start up production on these rifles again (Guide Gun/African).

As for something with a little more nostalgia, I plan on picking up a double rifle next year, likely in .470NE just for something special to have in the collection.

Cheers.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Components and ammo for just about everything but .308 have dried up to unobtanium levels. Still, I see things are improving steadily. I have been able to find loaded 404 Jeff on line (but at prices I won't pay) and bullets. Hornady and Barnes are making 400 gr. A few others are still making the bullets, including custom outfits. Brass is tough to find but I believe Hornady is still making it, and a few overseas companies. The difficulty right now seems to be finding magnum primers. But that obstacle is not limited to "obscure" cartridges like 404 Jeffery.

Edit: OP posted his choice for Ruger 416 as I was writing this.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Brass is tough to find but I believe Hornady is still making it, and a few overseas companies. The difficulty right now seems to be finding magnum primers. But that obstacle is not limited to "obscure" cartridges like 404 Jeffery.

No, Hornady isn’t supporting the .404 cartridge with new brass. Neither is Bell or Norma, as far as I’ve seen. Anything you might find online is NOS.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

No, Hornady isn’t supporting the .404 cartridge with new brass. Neither is Bell or Norma, as far as I’ve seen. Anything you might find online is NOS.

Bell hasn’t been in business for a long time have they? Didn’t they become Jamison(?) brass? Which they’re not in business either IIRC

 

[Jack Stevens]

Bell hasn’t been in business for a long time have they? Didn’t they become Jamison(?) brass? Which they’re not in business either IIRC

Well, I mentioned Bell because I have 20-25 pcs of their brass. Not sure if they were also Bertram at some point.

I also have some Norma brass from back when they were also making .404J ammo.

Haven’t seen any Kynoch .404J ammo other than an old box or two that pops up on GB once in a while at $3-$4.00 per rd.

 

[Northern Shooter]

For comparison's sake, here are the local ammo prices I'm seeing.
.416 Ruger - $129/box ($6.45/round)
.416 Remington - $174/box ($8.70/round)
.404 Jeffery - $175/box ($8.75/round)
.416 Rigby -$274+/box ($13.70/round)+

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Well, I mentioned Bell because I have 20-25 pcs of their brass. Not sure if they were also Bertram at some point.

I also have some Norma brass from back when they were also making .404J ammo.

Haven’t seen any Kynoch .404J ammo other than an old box or two that pops up on GB once in a while at $3-$4.00 per rd.

I can’t remember where I read that Bell became Jamison.

I would think Bertram would still be making brass. Like you say, hard to get.

New Kynoch is being imported now. $19 a round though..

 

[Inline6]

For comparison's sake, here are the local ammo prices I'm seeing.
.416 Ruger - $129/box ($6.45/round)
.416 Remington - $174/box ($8.70/round)
.404 Jeffery - $175/box ($8.75/round)
.416 Rigby -$274+/box ($13.70/round)+

The 416 Ruger might cost a little less, the real question is what choices of factory ammo do you have?

The 416REM, you can find on sale often. You will have more choices in factory ammo, and it would be easier to find ammo abroad vs the Ruger.

Do what makes you happy, just a different perspective.

 

[Northern Shooter]

The 416 Ruger might cost a little less, the real question is what choices of factory ammo do you have?

The 416REM, you can find on sale often. You will have more choices in factory ammo, and it would be easier to find ammo abroad vs the Ruger.

Do what makes you happy, just a different perspective.

Hornady seems to be the only option in seeing in stock but several retailers carry it.

I'm.moreso buying the cartridge based on my preferred rifle choice, the Ruger Guide Gun.

I like that stainless steel, compact package.

Already own a Winchester Safari Express so not really interested in buying a second just to have 416 Rem Mag.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Hornady seems to be the only option in seeing in stock but several retailers carry it.

I'm.moreso buying the cartridge based on my preferred rifle choice, the Ruger Guide Gun.

I like that stainless steel, compact package.

Already own a Winchester Safari Express so not really interested in buying a second just to have 416 Rem Mag.

What chambering is your Winchester SE?

Ruger GGs are solid rifles although I’d have my gunsmith cut off the unnecessary muzzle break - if it came wearing one - just to have a slightly more compact piece and just because I hate MBs.

It’s unfortunate that Ruger discontinued the upscale RSM/M77-actioned line of rifles before the 416 Ruger cartridge came out.

 

[Northern Shooter]

What chambering is your Winchester SE?

Ruger GGs are solid rifles although I’d have my gunsmith cut off the unnecessary muzzle break - if it came wearing one - just to have a slightly more compact piece and just because I hate MBs.

It’s unfortunate that Ruger discontinued the upscale RSM/M77-actioned line of rifles before the 416 Ruger cartridge came out.

.458 WM. Bought it a couple weeks ago. I also have a featherweight in .308.

I was trying to track down a .416 to compliment my 375 but I was unable to find one at reasonable prices.

I sorta skipped a step up to the .458 but when the right .416 comes along I'll scoop it up.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Buy a Ruger No. 1 in .458....aww shucks he said affordable....

 

[Tintin]

I would think Bertram would still be making brass.

Yep - got some from them about a month ago

 

[Jack Stevens]

.458 WM. Bought it a couple weeks ago.I also have a featherweight in .308. I was trying to track down a .416 to compliment my 375 but I was unable to find one at reasonable prices.I sorta skipped a step up to the .458 but when the right .416 comes along I'll scoop it up.

Well, you do you but if it were me and I already had a .458WM (plus the ammo and components), I’d be done with the .400-class altogether and wouldn’t consider a .416-anything.

To pair with the .458WM, I’d look for a quality rifle in the 375 Mag class. Options in rifles, factory ammo, and components are still plentiful. Possibly a .300 Mag instead if most game to be hunted are plains/non-dangerous species.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Well, you do you but if it were me and I already had a .458WM (plus the ammo and components), I’d be done with the .400-class altogether and wouldn’t consider a .416-anything.

To pair with the .458WM, I’d look for a quality rifle in the 375 Mag class. Options in rifles, factory ammo, and components are still plentiful. Possibly a .300 Mag instead if most game to be hunted are plains/non-dangerous species.

Already own a CZ 550 in 375HH, it's what got me started down this path.

I don't reload yet but I have heard reloading makes the 458 quite versatile (300-550grain).

It's moreso the package that the 416 Ruger comes in that interests me. My 2 current dangerous game rifles are wood, blued and rather long (24-25" barrels).

I like the idea of having a compact thumper in stainless steel. The Ruger Guide gun would be the bolt action equivalent to my 1895 SBL.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Buy a Ruger No. 1 in .458....aww shucks he said affordable....

I've actually been looking at the Ruger No.1's and have considered one as a cheap alternative to a double rifle if I could get one chambered in something interesting (470NE, 500J, 500NE).

It doesn't look like Ruger is currently offering their No.1 in any big bores though.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I've actually been looking at the Ruger No.1's and have considered one as a cheap alternative to a double rifle if I could get one chambered in something interesting (470NE, 500J, 500NE).

It doesn't look like Ruger is currently offering their No.1 in any big bores though.

Anything above .458 is a custom job. Grab whatever you can find used and have a competent smith rebarrel and relieve the action to accommodate for a boomer. There's a great video of a guy doing penetration comparisons on big #1's. At a certain point you'll notice that he's able to hit his mark, but he's doing a lot of getting out of the way of the recoil.