ZIMBABWE: African Trails Safaris & PH Shingi - Don't Let The Website Fool You!

[Doug3006]

Yeah that sucks. Thanks for sharing. Good that they acted immediately.

I know only customers that had a hunt can write a review. So in that way they are vetted. But personally they do not vet the outfitters beforehand. I know because I asked them what if I buy a hunt and the outfitter will not deliver? They said he will be not long on the site. But they didn't give me any guarantees and no insurances that they will reimburse me.

I see it more as a kind of AirBnB. I will never be the first to hunt, I first want to see some reviews.

It takes out the middle man but it comes with some risks.

I agree. These internet booking agencies seem to be in a position of removing outfitters due to poor performance quite a bit too often. I recall a recent thread about a Craig Boddington Endorsed Outfitter who was removed because they had serially taken money and produced terrible hunts. I don’t want to be the guy vetting their outfitters for them…at full boat pricing! It does me no good for them to yank the outfitter from their site after I had a lemon of a hunt. I’ll continue to do my research and book direct with the outfitter. It’s not failsafe, but I like the odds better.

 

[Red Leg]

Like outfitters, there are superb hunting consultants and some not so good. I have never heard of the outfit the OP used. I can speak with some authority to the quality opportunities offered by Jack Atcheson & Sons https://www.atcheson.com/ and The Hunting Consortium https://huntingconsortium.com/ . I would trust Jack Jr. or Bob Kern totally and have on several occasions. They are not sending a hunter to the cheapest option, but it will be a destination representing great value - two very different things.

I am generally concerned by outfits that seem to measure their market advantage by the size of their catalogue. For instance, I am doing a hunt thru Worldwide Trophy Adventures in April. I am using them because their European manager is a personal friend with whom I have previously hunted through another outfitter. I would have similar reservations about Boddington's portfolio of listings.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Like outfitters, there are superb hunting consultants and some not so good. I have never heard of the outfit the OP used. I can speak with some authority to the quality opportunities offered by Jack Atcheson & Sons https://www.atcheson.com/ and The Hunting Consortium https://huntingconsortium.com/ . I would trust Jack Jr. or Bob Kern totally and have on several occasions. They are not sending a hunter to the cheapest option, but it will be a destination representing great value - two very different things.

I am generally concerned by outfits that seem to measure their market advantage by the size of their catalogue. For instance, I am doing a hunt thru Worldwide Trophy Adventures in April. I am using them because their European manager is a personal friend with whom I have previously hunted through another outfitter. I would have similar reservations about Boddington's portfolio of listings.

Both Jack and Bob are great resources. If I we booking a sheep or Asian hunt they’d be one of my first calls. Even the greats can get duped at times.

I know of an African hunt that Jack offered in the last couple of years. Neither Jack nor his staff had hunted there before, but it was a great deal and they were in talks to try and view the camp. Unfortunately and unbeknownst to Jack the trophy photos that outfitter provided weren’t from one of that outfitter’s PH’s, and several of the animals in the photos weren’t even killed in that area. All the camp photos however were correct. However if I didn’t know the PH in the photos or the hunter who shot one of the animals I wouldn’t have known better or had a second thought on the deal.

 

[375Fox]

Both Jack and Bob are great resources. If I we booking a sheep or Asian hunt they’d be one of my first calls. Even the greats can get duped at times.

I know of an African hunt that Jack offered in the last couple of years. Neither Jack nor his staff had hunted there before, but it was a great deal and they were in talks to try and view the camp. Unfortunately and unbeknownst to Jack the trophy photos that outfitter provided weren’t from one of that outfitter’s PH’s, and several of the animals in the photos weren’t even killed in that area. All the camp photos however were correct. However if I didn’t know the PH in the photos or the hunter who shot one of the animals I wouldn’t have known better or had a second thought on the deal.

I think it’s a rare event they make a mistake. They are very careful with their recommendations. I think the difference between them and others is they are willing to fix a mistake in the rare event they make one. Other agents wash their hands of it.

 

[Tusker]

Definitely always two sides, but if was agreed to hunt in a particular matetsi safari area then taken to a Matetsi ECA I’d think that would warrant bookyourhunt looking into.

Was it really arranged this way? I believe is best to get informed before making any assumptions. Maybe you know things I don’t, but I really doubt is the case on this particular matter.

I’m not here to defend any side of the story, but I took the time to ask the operator and there are evidences that show that what is exposed on the first message is not completely true, therefor its a lie.

 

[375Fox]

Was it really arranged this way? I believe is best to get informed before making any assumptions. Maybe you know things I don’t, but I really doubt is the case on this particular matter.

I’m not here to defend any side of the story, but I took the time to ask the operator and there are evidences that show that what is exposed on the first message is not completely true, therefor its a lie.

I can only go off what thar OP wrote. If bookyourhunt was going to pull their listing I’d hope they’d look into the accusations.

 

[Tusker]

I can only go off what thar OP wrote. If bookyourhunt was going to pull their listing I’d hope they’d look into the accusations.

Again making assumptions without evidence.

No much more to say regarding these comments beyond this point.

 

[375Fox]

Again making assumptions without evidence.

No much more to say regarding these comments beyond this point.

The OP wrote it on the first page. It’s not an assumption. It’s up to bookyourhunt to make their decision if the evidence is there. You get what you pay for. This wouldn’t be a hunt that would interest me.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

@yukonspirit
1) Did you speak to any references from this outfitter’s previous client list prior to booking?
2) Did you ask the “booking” website how many clients they’d sent to hunt with that outfitter before and get references from ones who’d hunted that exact area?
3) If you wanted to hunt Matetsi Unit 5 or any other Matetsi area, why wouldn’t you reach out to the Zim Outfitter who holds that concession?
4) Did you question why this outfitter was able to offer hunts below the market average, especially in an area like Matetsi when they’re not the concession holder?
5) At what point did you learn it was a black zim operator/ph?
6) Have you booked with this “agent” or website before?
7) Did you question if they’ve hunted with all their endorsed Outfitters, and done so recently at that?
8) Did the outfitter ever quote you the Unit 5, or other non ECA Trophy Fees? If so did you compare them to the actual concession holder?


My take aways (all before I know the answers above, or the outfitter’s side)

1) You get what you pay for price wise - if it sounds too good to be true it probably is
2) Black Zim Operator/PH - RUN AWAY FAST -
Typically means hunting communal areas, subpar Safari areas, or “once” white farms; before even reading this report I knew this was likely the case
3) Roan - the number of permits from Zim Parks can be counted on 1 hand. Guav Johnson is the on PH I know for sure, but @375Fox has told me CMS gets a permit or two.
4) ALWAYS try to book/hunt with the concession holder.
5) The outfitter asking for money for fuel is a major red flag.

 

[fourfive8]

^^^ Yep! Due diligence is so important. Never heard of the third party agent mentioned, but that doesn’t mean much in the flux of the current market. I do know the BVC area fairly well though. The Outfitters/PHs operating these are usually pretty good.

 

[Aaron N]

I thought the weird part was that buffalo was not DG! They must have special tame buffs in his concessions.

Sounds like few to none!

 

[mark-hunter]

5) The outfitter asking for money for fuel is a major red flag.

At that stage, it was too late!
With that red flag suddenly hoisted, the only option was - to take what Africa will offer next, and hope for best.
But this detail is very illustrative for any future clients.

 

[DLSJR]

Like outfitters, there are superb hunting consultants and some not so good. I have never heard of the outfit the OP used. I can speak with some authority to the quality opportunities offered by Jack Atcheson & Sons https://www.atcheson.com/ and The Hunting Consortium https://huntingconsortium.com/ . I would trust Jack Jr. or Bob Kern totally and have on several occasions. They are not sending a hunter to the cheapest option, but it will be a destination representing great value - two very different things.

I am generally concerned by outfits that seem to measure their market advantage by the size of their catalogue. For instance, I am doing a hunt thru Worldwide Trophy Adventures in April. I am using them because their European manager is a personal friend with whom I have previously hunted through another outfitter. I would have similar reservations about Boddington's portfolio of listings.

Jack Jr, and his brother, Keith are both ‘stand up’ guys, as is Bob Kern. They’re the kind of experienced and reputable agents whom one can book through with confidence.

 

[mark-hunter]

@yukonspirit
@Tusker

Major defining point of a hunt to be successful is actually having opportunity to shoot.
In this case, the shot was taken. And opportunity was presented.
This goes in favor of outfitter and PH, and brings more scrutiny to hunter.

Critical part of dangerous game hunt is a back up shot to bring the animal down.

So, what was the agreement between the hunter and PH?
1. Back up shot to be done exclusively by client, and PH to stand down?
2. Or, back up shot to be taken by PH and Client depending of circumstances as nesessary?

As per initial report there was no back up shot taken.
If not, why is that so?

In my opinion this may easily be defining fact in judging this hunt.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

@yukonspirit
@Tusker

Major defining point of a hunt to be successful is actually having opportunity to shoot.
In this case, the shot was taken. And opportunity was presented.
This goes in favor of outfitter and PH, and brings more scrutiny to hunter.

Critical part of dangerous game hunt is a back up shot to bring the animal down.

So, what was the agreement between the hunter and PH?
1. Back up shot to be done exclusively by client, and PH to stand down?
2. Or, back up shot to be taken by PH and Client depending of circumstances as nesessary?

As per initial report there was no back up shot taken.
If not, why is that so?

In my opinion this may easily be defining fact in judging this hunt.

hay Mark

i have to disagree with this post
what makes a hunt succesful or not, in my opinion, is a lot of factors but definatley not "opportunity to shoot". this is hunting after all and we cant control the animals or their behaviour.

factors that make a hunt succesful for me are the following and people may differ in opinion and thats fine
act professionally at all times- (be honest and straight forward, look presentable, safety protocols, dont sell what you cannot deliver)
be organised- (poor planning = piss poor performance), this means know the area you hunting in, plan the hunt, plan your staff, arrive at airport with vehicle organised and a full tank of fuel, camp is ready, kitchen stocked etc etc, weapons cleaned and working
hunt as best you can- as long as you see animals its all good, try your best to get client the best shot possible in the current circumstances


there could be a bunch of other factors but these are the important ones for me

my experience- i have been the client on various hunts around the world and on some i got my trophy but felt the hunt was not what was expected and others where i never got a shot but was still extremely happy with the experience.

overall i think the OP is right to be unhappy with this outfitter and the booking agent- the hunt was not what was sold to him as agreed in the contract, the outfitter did not act professionally on a number of occasions during the hunt

my opinion!!!

 

[mark-hunter]

my opinion!!!

Mine too!

I said major defining factor, not the only one.

Keep in mind after all, the package is for example "7 days buffalo hunt".
Remove buffalo from description, and you have 7 days of sightseeing and bird watching. But not hunt.
Yes, there are some other hunts with lower chance of success, etc, but this is another subject (like bongo for example)

There are two weak points in hunting industry:
Generally, all people involved are professionals: PH, hunter, skinners, cooks, laundry, etc.
Except, client. Client usually is not proffesional.
Clients ability to shoot, and in case of DG hunt, the clients attitude towards back up shot, can vary.
So giving a client opportunity of shot, is major part of outfitter expertise and quality, and clients ability to hit, is another matter.

Other weak point in safari industry is trophy shipping, prices on shipping, unpredictability etc... But that is another subject.

Yes absolutely all other things play the role, as you stated, but seeing a target animal is still a one of priority conditions in my view, for most commonly organized hunts - exotic hunts excluded.
.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Mine too!

I said major defining factor, not the only one.

Keep in mind after all, the package is for example "7 days buffalo hunt".
Remove buffalo from description, and you have 7 days of sightseeing and bird watching. But not hunt.
Yes, there are some other hunts with lower chance of success, etc, but this is another subject (like bongo for example)

There are two weak points in hunting industry:
Generally, all people involved are professionals: PH, hunter, skinners, cooks, laundry, etc.
Except, client. Client usually is not proffesional.
Clients ability to shoot, and in case of DG hunt, the clients attitude towards back up shot, can vary.
So giving a client opportunity of shot, is major part of outfitter expertise and quality, and clients ability to hit, is another matter.

Other weak point in safari industry is trophy shipping, prices on shipping, unpredictability etc... But that is another subject.

Yes absolutely all other things play the role, as you stated, but seeing a target animal is still a one of priority conditions in my view, for most commonly organized hunts - exotic hunts excluded.
.

i agree

on the trophy shipping etc i feel the same i find that whole industry very disorganised and lack communication and people skills

 

[fourfive8]

The whole issue of how a gun is carried and the loaded condition of the gun while hunting is between PH and hunter.

The issue about ATS as a safari or hunting trip booking agent is different. I was curious so I started to read through their website this morning. Got through a couple of their bullet point presentation categories and it became obvious… the entire site is one big, dripping, “slathery slick”, buzz word laced sales pitch. Even beyond “To good to be true”. Huge red flag if I were considering them for planning a hunting trip. They could just as easily be a China-based, eco-safari shill using AI to generate an advertising website. Sadly, these operations reflect poorly on the whole industry and do an injustice to established and reputable companies like Atcheson.

 

[Garciamarquez1918]

I'm a lurker with zero experience hunting in Africa. That will change this coming summer.

But at this point I have planned and mostly paid for a safari. Everything that's been said about doing due diligence on individual PHs and outfitters of course makes sense. They should all be assessed individually and thoroughly on the basis of their proven reputations (or lack thereof.)

With that in mind, it's a shame to hear folks making blanket statements about black PHs and outfitters. In the case of Zimbabwe, this would cause someone to skip over, for instance, Nixon Dzingai, who by all accounts is amazing. The only negatives I'm able to find about him is that he's been criticized for the fact that his clients tend to take elephants with giant tusks.

In all things, including this, judge a man not by the color of his skin but the content of his character. There are a 1000 tales on this website of shyster white outfitters. And I don't doubt in this case there was a shyster black outfitter. Shysters come in all colors -- as do mensches.

 

[Sh1kar]

Which website are we talking about because there are quite a few that are named Elephant Trails Safaris.

This?

ELEPHANT TRAILS - Team

TEAM

www.elephant-trails.com