WTB 458 Winmag/lott

[generalzip]

I’m looking for something a bit different. If anyone has a 458 win mag or Lott or b&m with a short threaded barrel I’d be interested. Would prefer a wood stock but open. Must are a crf action, front and rear iron sights, and a threaded barrel preferably in 3/4”.

If you have something close you’re trying to get rid of let me know. I have a 375 ruger I love so looking to step into a bigger bore elephant capable rifle with 458 win mag energy at my bottom entry level. If you have brass, custom work on trigger or action and dies that’s a plus. Looking to push 420 CEB raptors and 450 ceb solids to 2200+ fps. Price range is open depending on what you have but prefer something under 3000.

 

[krish]

Sent yoou PM.
KRISH

 

[19_A_CPT]

I've got a 458 WM with a long threaded barrel and a thumbhole in Tennessee

 

[AZDAVE]

PM sent

 

[krish]

If you want more than 458 wincheste then is the 458 lott. But if you want something better but more elegant then comes 450 Rigby in 45 caliber rifles. When you come back to usa you pick what you want.
Krish

 

[generalzip]

If you want more than 458 wincheste then is the 458 lott. But if you want something better but more elegant then comes 450 Rigby in 45 caliber rifles. When you come back to usa you pick what you want.
Krish

I'm open to any 45 cal. Seems it's quite rare to fins a threaded barrel on one of these so debating buying something on here and sending to the smith to move the front sight and thread or if it would be better to just build a whole custom rifle from ground up

 

[Letzhunt]

There is or at least was a nice 458 WM Winchester 70 for sale in the classifieds. It's the same Cabelas model I have and easy enough to cut the barrel down and simply reinstall the front sight. Also an easy transition to a longer mag box opening with a few simple parts changes the gun becomes a 458 wm + which allows for a longer load length and is actually more potent than the 458 Lott.
The caveat is you must reload.
I have the exact rifle with a 20 1/2" barrel and push a 450 North Fork SS and solids at 2360 fps.

 

[krish]

I was looking earlier. I seen so far a cz 550 magnum converted to 458 lott with muzzle break. That is threaded barrel, In my collection.
I may have more. Have yo look.
Brands like kimber caprivi, Dalota 76 safari, Sako 85xl in brown bear bare are more expensive and normaly dont come with threaded barrels. You can go one step higher like Mauser 98 Mahnum and Sako85 xl. They defenetly dont come with threaded barrel. Threded barrels are optional upgrade.
Krish

 

[generalzip]

There is or at least was a nice 458 WM Winchester 70 for sale in the classifieds. It's the same Cabelas model I have and easy enough to cut the barrel down and simply reinstall the front sight. Also an easy transition to a longer mag box opening with a few simple parts changes the gun becomes a 458 wm + which allows for a longer load length and is actually more potent than the 458 Lott.
The caveat is you must reload.
I have the exact rifle with a 20 1/2" barrel and push a 450 North Fork SS and solids at 2360 fps.

I'm actually talking to that guy. However the mod to make a 458WM+ I've read is actually quite involved and requires some gunsmithing? Do you know all this entails to change? You can DM me if better to not unfairly bump this thread. I do reload. That's solid velocity. Curious what your load is.

 

[generalzip]

I was looking earlier. I seen so far a cz 550 magnum converted to 458 lott with muzzle break. That is threaded barrel, In my collection.
I may have more. Have yo look.
Brands like kimber caprivi, Dalota 76 safari, Sako 85xl in brown bear bare are more expensive and normaly dont come with threaded barrels. You can go one step higher like Mauser 98 Mahnum and Sako85 xl. They defenetly dont come with threaded barrel. Threded barrels are optional upgrade.
Krish

I don't mind at all sending it to my smith to chop and thread the barrel. That's a very cheap and easy job. My main concern is finding a solid rifle in a solid well fitting stock that will allow me to load the WM a bit longer as described above. I think this is the answer as all the load data I see on the WM is way under SAAMI max and typically you run out of room in the case. This solves that. It essentially gives Lott performance in a shorter action, less powder, less recoil. Just an all around win really. The 458 B&M intrigues me as well but it's such a niche round I think it better for several reasons to stick with a WM or more popular cartridge.

 

[krish]

Sent you some pictures.
Krish

 

[krish]

Cz win. Mag can accomadate longer cartridges. I mean you can easily seat the bullet out longer and get better velocity.
Krish

 

[generalzip]

So after much deliberation, I'm committed to this project. I think I'd prefer a win mag, but still open to a lott especially if its a conversion from a win mag with the longer freebore.

I'm looking at the following options likely in order of preference:

Interarms Whitworth Mark X
M70 Safari Express
BRNO 602
CZ550
Ruger M77 (standard not RSM unless it was a crazy deal)

Anyone with experience on these care to DM me (as to not unnecessarily) bump this thread on which options you think are best, any leads for purchasing (or trading) one, and what I should expect to pay for each as a good deal? I'm not in a huge rush and understand the market for these rifles is small so it may take a couple months for a decent deal to pop up. In hindsight I regret not jumping on that Cabelas model 458wm that was for sale recently, but here I am. I've decided a Ruger No 1 is probably not a good option for a DG rifle for obvious reasons, but it would make a really short handy rifle and the suppressor would mitigate a lot of the recoil people tend to complain about.

 

[skydiver386]

I think the best thing you could do would be watching the classified section of this forum. It seems at least once a week, someone decides they want another rifle for a specific hunt, and they need cash, so they are willing to part with a rifle very close to what you are looking for. On top of that, most of the guys on this forum will put the rifle here for considerably less than the going price on other gun auction type websites.

The only downside to that plan is getting the rifle before all the other greedy vultures around here whip out the cash.

 

[generalzip]

I think the best thing you could do would be watching the classified section of this forum. It seems at least once a week, someone decides they want another rifle for a specific hunt, and they need cash, so they are willing to part with a rifle very close to what you are looking for. On top of that, most of the guys on this forum will put the rifle here for considerably less than the going price on other gun auction type websites.

The only downside to that plan is getting the rifle before all the other greedy vultures around here whip out the cash.

Haha isnt that the truth. I have a lead on a new M70 458WM from the last run they did. This is a Portugal made one. $1500 sound like a pretty good deal?

 

[skydiver386]

Haha isnt that the truth. I have a lead on a new M70 458WM from the last run they did. This is a Portugal made one. $1500 sound like a pretty good deal?

I think any good crf action in 458 Win priced at $1500 is about where you want to be. Most Win 70 Safari Express rifles in 458 are going for $1700-1900 right now, of course depending on condition, wood grade, etc. There are plenty of used rifles for less, and plenty of really nice ones for a lot more, but this should be a good baseline for comparison.

Although I've had very little trouble with factory rifles, it might be a good idea to have a good gunsmith familiar with Dangerous Game rifles go over anything you purchase. Besides, there are always small mods you will want on your DG rifle that make it your own, and a skilled DG gunsmith can do these while making sure your rifle functions as it should.

 

[WC86]

Several observations:

To your specific question, of the listed rifles, I only have experience with model 70 but would consider it to be an excellent option for the build you are considering. Obviously it’ll need time at a smith as I think it unlikely that you’ll come across a 458 cal model 70 with a threaded barrel (where someone else has had it at the smith) and even less likely to come across something in the 18-22”

Regarding your choice of suppressor as specified in your other thread, I reached out to SilencerCo to ask further about barrel length given 338 (can is rated to 18” for 338 lapua) will give that can just about everything a Lott will and they still replied back that 20” is minimum approved barrel length from manufacturer. I pushed a bunch of data/math their way about the similarities in pressure, energy, and differences in powder burn percentage and still got that one sentence answer. Go figure

Regarding your comment about extra freebore with the 458 Lott when converted from 458 wm, im not sure how it benefits the circumstance

Typically extra freebore helps you harness a bit more space in the case because you can seat bullets out a little longer. As such, you can add a bit more powder and gain velocity without seeing pressure signs. It comes at potential the cost of trickier feeding given although the chamber can take it, the geometry between action and magazine is less favorable and ultimately you’re limited by the magazine size on COAL. in my experience playing with seating depths, with no memorable exceptions, the longer I seat bullets out toward magazine length, the more picky they get about bolt cycling. I’ve seen this in a magnum length m70

I’d want my dangerous game gun to feed slicker than goose shit so getting to the limits of magazine COAL and having tricky feeding sounds less ideal

This is not to say that extra freebore is a bad idea. Excellent examples include such chambering as 300wsm with extra freebore *run on a long action* for the above reasons or when seating super high BC bullets in targeting rifles

In the case of the Lott, you’re already in a magnum action so you can’t upsize, although I’m given to understand some magnum actions are more “magnum” than others…someone please chime in as I don’t have firsthand experience with these

If you need the extra velocity because you’ve got a specific velocity threshold you want to hit, I would move to a case that allows adequate powder volume for that velocity and seat to the depth that gives the best feeding. This allows you to keep pressures low without having to load to extremes for a given case and allows you to optimize feeding so that a charging animal actually gets to feel the second round in a tense situation

For my own consideration of such a build I wanted to ensure I could still hit 470NE ballistics (500gr at 2150fps) so the Lott works for me given the loss of velocity from the reduced barrel length. Should still be able to load well below max pressures and get that out of a 20” barrel in a Lott whereas it would be challenging with a 458wm. It would be easier still with 450 Rigby/dakota/460 weatherby but I don’t need the other challenges that come with upsizing to those cases

Lastly, have you considered a Blaser r8? You can have you’re cake and eat it too with a significantly shorter overall gun similar to what you’d get with a ruger no1 but with perfect feeding and you could order a custom barrel from sip and sons that would let you pick your specs. One poster on your other thread with tremendous experience hunting dangerous game with all manner of rifles recommended this and I agree wholeheartedly with him. Im considering it for my build

 

[generalzip]

I think any good crf action in 458 Win priced at $1500 is about where you want to be. Most Win 70 Safari Express rifles in 458 are going for $1700-1900 right now, of course depending on condition, wood grade, etc. There are plenty of used rifles for less, and plenty of really nice ones for a lot more, but this should be a good baseline for comparison.

Although I've had very little trouble with factory rifles, it might be a good idea to have a good gunsmith familiar with Dangerous Game rifles go over anything you purchase. Besides, there are always small mods you will want on your DG rifle that make it your own, and a skilled DG gunsmith can do these while making sure your rifle functions as it should.

Absolutely. I have a very good gunsmith near Houston Aaron Roberts that does amazing bedding jobs. I'll have him cut and thread at 20" moving the front sight back. Bed the stock to the action

This is not to say that extra freebore is a bad idea. Excellent examples include such chambering as 300wsm with extra freebore *run on a long action* for the above reasons or when seating super high BC bullets in targeting rifles

I think the reason they say 20" is 2 fold. First, they probably only had access to a 20" 460 weatherby or lott to test on so that's all they decided to rate it to. Sometimes it's as simple as that thinking nobody is going to build an 18" 458 win mag. In all reality it's probably fine. I've run this can on a 10.5" 458 socom which was a no-no according to them and it was completely fine. Later they shortened the minimum barrel length for that cartridge probably after a lot of complaints because 10.5" barrels were common.

The second reason is that it's a .46 cal can. A 458 diameter bullet "seals" the gasses behind the can more. This has a 2 fold effect. First is increased pressure inside the baffles, especially the first couple. Second, is increased muzzle velocity because the pressure remains high enough in the can to actually simulate an extra inch of barrel length. It's seen this effect first hand and verified with my chrono. If using a .338, even a larger case capacity one, much of that gas can escape around the bullet lowering the pressure and giving a point of escape for the expanding gasses.

I'm aiming for a CEB 450 Safari Solid at 2250 in a 20" barrel. I think it will be close but doable with TAC or AA2230 of which I have both. Will probably try TAC first as it's less pressure sensitive. I also have H4895 which is good in swinging temps.

Luckily the M70 has a normal long action for the 458WM. This will make the rifle ever so slightly shorter and lighter compared to a magnum action and hopefully feed more reliably as you said. Seems the 450 solid is more than adequate enough at 2200 fps for any game on the planet including elephant frontal brain shots.

I'd LOVE a blaser R8, but right now I'd rather save the money to actual hunt than blow on a rifle that doesn't do much more a $1500 M70 does. Sure it's super nice and versatile, but I'd rather put that money towards my next trip

 

[jnmullins]

I have a Remington 798 in 458 WM that I had the barrel shortened to 20” and threaded 3/4-24 specifically to host a Silencerco Hybrid 46. I have not yet had a chance to hunt with it, but the short barrel is quite handy. The action is a little rough, so it needs a bit of polishing too.

The load I have worked up for it is a Barnes 450 TSX at 2115 over 73.5gr TAC. I’m pretty sure I have a good bit more room to work with before max, which I will work on once I get a new recoil pad fitted. Your goal of 2200 fps should be easily achievable from a 20” barrel

 

[generalzip]

I have a Remington 798 in 458 WM that I had the barrel shortened to 20” and threaded 3/4-24 specifically to host a Silencerco Hybrid 46. I have not yet had a chance to hunt with it, but the short barrel is quite handy. The action is a little rough, so it needs a bit of polishing too.

The load I have worked up for it is a Barnes 450 TSX at 2115 over 73.5gr TAC. I’m pretty sure I have a good bit more room to work with before max, which I will work on once I get a new recoil pad fitted. Your goal of 2200 fps should be easily achievable from a 20” barrel

Yea sounds doable. The Barnes tax seem slower for whatever reason and pressure out sooner than other monolithics on the market. The CEB brass are a bit faster it seems