Working the bolt

Don't worry about fumbling with the bolt to keep the brass from hitting the concrete floor. As stated earlier, you shoot like you practice. There are many shoot outs documented where cops are policing their brass before the shoot out is over because that is how they practiced. Work the bolt hard!
 
Cycle the action with force and treat the bolt like you’re the boss. Bring it back hard until it stops and forward hard. Quit playing with the damn thing! I use my palm but whatever method you use, keep shooting. Countless times in my career I’ve had to tell hunters to reload and shoot. I don’t understand the shoot and look guys. Aren’t we trying to put the animal down? Some guys wait all year for the hunt and then don’t shoot enough once the situation unfolds. It’s foreign to me. They don’t die unless you fire the gun. Sometimes the animal is walking dead but how do we know until it’s over? We don’t so keep shooting.
 
Cycle the action with force and treat the bolt like you’re the boss. Bring it back hard until it stops and forward hard. Quit playing with the damn thing! I use my palm but whatever method you use, keep shooting. Countless times in my career I’ve had to tell hunters to reload and shoot. I don’t understand the shoot and look guys. Aren’t we trying to put the animal down? Some guys wait all year for the hunt and then don’t shoot enough once the situation unfolds. It’s foreign to me. They don’t die unless you fire the gun. Sometimes the animal is walking dead but how do we know until it’s over? We don’t so keep shooting.

There's no such thing as "too dead"
 
Yes and yes. One of those super fast videos that I think I shared was an R8 and that was fast. The guy put 3 or 4 shots in the buff super quick. I think it was a CMS safari.
I get made fun of for saying we should all go to the range and try to break our DG rifles. I've had a problem with a charging animal and though it was not my fault it would have been better to know what that gun would do when worked super hard.
Practice, practice, practice. And I don't mean sitting at the bench loading each cartridge gently by hand!
Agree. If a bolt stop is weak, or magazine follower is tipsy on any shot from the magazine stack (especially the last one?), or if a cock on opening rifle is stiff, or the ejector on a Ruger takes a millisecond to deploy and malfunctions if run too fast, it is better to find out ahead of time! Even my Mannlichers are a bit stiff on bolt lift after firing--my Tikka runs faster in that regard. (blasphemy, I know) A video of yourself shooting can show a lot of bungling.
Plus, if you wait to run the bolt, the game will be listening intently! Then you have a running followup for sure.
 
As has been said by others, train whatever technique you find is best for you and stick to it. In the military I once heard an instructor say “you don’t raise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.”

I think that could not be more true. Whatever your muscle memory tells you to do in a high stress situation is what you’re going to do.
 
Cycle the action with force and treat the bolt like you’re the boss. Bring it back hard until it stops and forward hard. Quit playing with the damn thing! I use my palm but whatever method you use, keep shooting. Countless times in my career I’ve had to tell hunters to reload and shoot. I don’t understand the shoot and look guys. Aren’t we trying to put the animal down? Some guys wait all year for the hunt and then don’t shoot enough once the situation unfolds. It’s foreign to me. They don’t die unless you fire the gun. Sometimes the animal is walking dead but how do we know until it’s over? We don’t so keep shooting.
In my extensive experience, rushed shots are more often that not missed shots. Anybody who's done much bird hunting will know what I'm talking about. Skybuster goose hunters with big autos rattling off three shots as fast as possible = maybe one bird falls. A couple years ago an outdoors writer in a pickup on the bird refuge stopped to chat. We were both unhappy with troublemaking refuge LE. I asked if he knew who was hunting down on the dike. "That would be me and my partner." He was a cool guy and we hit it off immediately. He commented on my old A5 and I noticed his older Beretta auto. I smiled and asked why he was firing his first two shots almost simultaneously and then sometimes delaying the final third shot. "Maybe give em a chance to fall." He chuckled. "That's my partner still out hunting with his O/U. I was just cleaning up for him." And how's that working out? He pointed to three roosters on the passenger side foor. His daily limit was filled and he was happy to be out of 0° temp.

Stay focused on the animal, not working the gun fast to get as much lead flying as quickly as possible. Be smooth and sure ... and you'll be accurate. I would rather put two lethal shots into a buffalo than 1 + 4 or 5 more not so lethal hits.
 
I am a bolt grabber, not a palmer. I can and do run a bolt fast from the shoulder. I have sent three rounds from a 700 at a running buck (killed with last round) fast enough during a PA deer drive that my hunting buddies thought was from another hunter with a pump rifle. Palming works for me on a rifle without a scope, with a scope it causes issues, so I just tend to grab. I will say placement of a bolt knob makes a big difference, both in acquisition of bolt and clearance around the scope. On my custom .458 I am taking to the Caprivi next month I cut the bolt handle off, welded in an extension to make it easier to grab and more clearance around the scope. The knob was too far forward and too tight to scope before I operated on it for a DG rifle. Before:View attachment 770310
Cut knob off:View attachment 770314
Welded in an extension:View attachment 770331
Here is extended handle partially welded showing clearance around scope. I shot it like this a bit before fully welding to ensure knob is where I wanted it:View attachment 770321
And finished product:View attachment 770326
The clearance around scope is enough on this rifle the bolt could be palmed, but I am not going to mix it up at this stage, I have been grabbing the bolt for 40+ years.
Ok I am seriously impressed with the gun smithing here! Looks great!
 
I disagree. Everyone has a different shooting style. I grab the bolt. I’ve never knocked my hand into scope. Every PH I hunt with makes a comment a reload very quickly.

If I hunted more with a scoped CZ with a very high bolt throw I might agree it a necessary skill, but I see no need for this palm technique opposed to my own on other rifles.
Do what works best for you.
 
Practice dry shooting and cycling the bolt the way you would be hunting. In that you'll be able to develop a system that's best for you. The key is practice practice practice. Train to the standard; perform at the standard.
Exactly. Dry firing is the key, my ratio of dry fire to live fire most likely exceeds 100 to 1.
 
In my extensive experience, rushed shots are more often that not missed shots. Anybody who's done much bird hunting will know what I'm talking about. Skybuster goose hunters with big autos rattling off three shots as fast as possible = maybe one bird falls. A couple years ago an outdoors writer in a pickup on the bird refuge stopped to chat. We were both unhappy with troublemaking refuge LE. I asked if he knew who was hunting down on the dike. "That would be me and my partner." He was a cool guy and we hit it off immediately. He commented on my old A5 and I noticed his older Beretta auto. I smiled and asked why he was firing his first two shots almost simultaneously and then sometimes delaying the final third shot. "Maybe give em a chance to fall." He chuckled. "That's my partner still out hunting with his O/U. I was just cleaning up for him." And how's that working out? He pointed to three roosters on the passenger side foor. His daily limit was filled and he was happy to be out of 0° temp.

Stay focused on the animal, not working the gun fast to get as much lead flying as quickly as possible. Be smooth and sure ... and you'll be accurate. I would rather put two lethal shots into a buffalo than 1 + 4 or 5 more not so lethal hits.
Who said anything about rushed inaccurate shots? Too many guys drop the rifle and look instead of reloading.

Extensive experience? I’ve been guiding two to three dozen hunts a year with many guided two on one for 36 years in addition to my own hunting. Dangerous game is also different than birds. After the first good shot, the animal is usually moving and then just hit it wherever you can.
 
Am I seeing videos where hunters haven't practiced enough? Do some brands not cycle well. Is it Buffalo fever? Is it too much recoil? Are the long throws of the magnum length actions messing some people up?
In my life I tried almost all action types and and all bolt types. Magnum length actions, medium length actions, straight pulls, and 60, 70, 90 degrees bolt rotation.
All these are over exaugurated. It is not about the action, it is about people not skilled in using the rifle, and jamming under stress, on short stroke or anything else.

I hunted in Africa with rental rifles 3 times, and my own rifle 2 times (with which I train). But I also have a good number of shots fired annually at range with various calibers.

My biggest gun iz 375 H&H.
And on my last hunt, I used 416 Rigby, camp gun.
I had the same concerns as you do. Until I tried this gun at the range in a camp. And on the end, all went well with ele hunt.

Considering that you ask all these questions, you will be just fine.
Because you show due diligence.

For me, personally, the biggest challenge on two DG hunts (buff and ele) was not the gun. It was facing down DG animal, keeping cool head, having in mind that always something can go wrong, and I had to shoot to the best of my abilities. Shooting is not much different then shooting a plains game animal, as you will always need to place the bullet in proper spot, but the size of animal, and this potential of danger is what gives the challenge to the hunter. Not the gun.

Gun challenged people should not hunt. ;)
 
Who said anything about rushed inaccurate shots? Too many guys drop the rifle and look instead of reloading.

Extensive experience? I’ve been guiding two to three dozen hunts a year with many guided two on one for 36 years in addition to my own hunting. Dangerous game is also different than birds. After the first good shot, the animal is usually moving and then just hit it wherever you can.
I lower the rifle and reload while I'm still looking at the animal. I can chew gum and walk at the same time. :D

Rushed shots as often as not = inaccurate shots. That's been my experience anyway.

" ... hit it wherever you can." Yes, but rush the shots, don't hit it well or at all and waste the ammo, then you could wind up having to reload the magazine in a charge situation, not just the chamber. I concentrate on making opportunities count, not taking as many shots as fast as possible. Quality vs quantity. Old habits die hard I guess.
 
A salient question: how is it possible to short stroke if you are coming back forcefully until you run into the bolt stop?
 
A salient question: how is it possible to short stroke if you are coming back forcefully until you run into the bolt stop?
It isn't; they are mutually exclusive concepts. The short stroke occurs when situational stress overcomes situational training. A non-hunting example (which I will keep simple): In defensive driving, it is taught to apply maximum braking (pedal to the floor with authority) and steer around an obstacle to avoid a crash; the ABS system does the braking for you IF you brake hard enough to activate it. In training scenarios, one can learn to do this. But what happens in the real world is (1) the training is difficult or inconvenient to practice and (2) if an incident occurs, the natural tendency is to finesse the vehicle with light braking such that the ABS never helps and then there's no time to steer, so the driver freezes.

Stress and finesse- the keys to the short stroke or the short brake.
 
Working the bolt in the quickest manner possible does not equal rushing shots, in fact it is the opposite. Working the bolt in the quickest manner possible gives MORE time to make a good shot.

We stress this in handgun training, the faster out of the holster, the faster reloads, the faster transitions equal MORE time to devote to making good hits. Same thing with dangerous game, most likely we have a compressed window of opportunity to make our hits, whether the critter is inbound or outbound, and fast efficient loading gives more time to make sure our shots are effective.
 
A salient question: how is it possible to short stroke if you are coming back forcefully until you run into the bolt stop?
As the two trainers described in the video, short stroking as often as not occurs when a hunter familiar with standard length actions switches to magnum action for dangerous game. Sure, it can happen when cycling standard action but probably switching bolt length is most common cause.

When short stroking the shooter doesn't notice the empty case failed to eject and attempts to close the bolt. Bolt face is still holding empty case and picking up the next cartridge in magazine while bolt is being closed = jam. Both can't fit in the chamber.

One trainer felt that lowering the rifle to reload gives the shooter a better chance to see that the empty hasn't ejected. Maybe, if the shooter is looking in that direction. Most would probably be looking at the game animal and I'm not sure they would necessarily catch sight of it in peripheral vision. However, I believe cycling the rifle at the shoulder might obstruct the shooter's view of an ejected case's flight pattern. His hand, wrist, and/or forearm working the bolt in front of his face could certainly obstruct his view.
 
Working the bolt in the quickest manner possible does not equal rushing shots, in fact it is the opposite. Working the bolt in the quickest manner possible gives MORE time to make a good shot.

We stress this in handgun training, the faster out of the holster, the faster reloads, the faster transitions equal MORE time to devote to making good hits. Same thing with dangerous game, most likely we have a compressed window of opportunity to make our hits, whether the critter is inbound or outbound, and fast efficient loading gives more time to make sure our shots are effective.
It's been my experience that most who are in a hurry to cycle ammo into their gun for followup shots are usually equally in a hurry to shoot it. I'm sure some highly trained individuals may cycle fast so they can have more time to shoot. Get in a hurry so they don't have to be in a hurry. But I submit speed freaks typically are disinclined to take their foot off the gas, especially in stressful or exciting situations. :D
 
As the two trainers described in the video, short stroking as often as not occurs when a hunter familiar with standard length actions switches to magnum action for dangerous game. Sure, it can happen when cycling standard action but probably switching bolt length is most common cause.

When short stroking the shooter doesn't notice the empty case failed to eject and attempts to close the bolt. Bolt face is still holding empty case and picking up the next cartridge in magazine while bolt is being closed = jam. Both can't fit in the chamber.

One trainer felt that lowering the rifle to reload gives the shooter a better chance to see that the empty hasn't ejected. Maybe, if the shooter is looking in that direction. Most would probably be looking at the game animal and I'm not sure they would necessarily catch sight of it in peripheral vision. However, I believe cycling the rifle at the shoulder might obstruct the shooter's view of an ejected case's flight pattern. His hand, wrist, and/or forearm working the bolt in front of his face could certainly obstruct his view.
I should clarify that CFR jamming because of two cases being simultaneously cycled closed is relatively rare. Most good CFR eject just before the bolt is back far enough to pick up the next cartridge. Usually the worst that can happen is same as push feed short stroking: the bolt closes on an empty chamber but with empty brass on the bolt head. Prematurely closing the bolt on a short stroked large caliber empty case without picking up the next cartridge might do a number on the brass but at least the shooter usually knows things are screwed up before he gets the bolt closed on a dud. Big mouth and no shoulders often precludes the empty brass from feeding into the chamber.
 
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I lower the rifle and reload while I'm still looking at the animal. I can chew gum and walk at the same time. :D

Rushed shots as often as not = inaccurate shots. That's been my experience anyway.

" ... hit it wherever you can." Yes, but rush the shots, don't hit it well or at all and waste the ammo, then you could wind up having to reload the magazine in a charge situation, not just the chamber. I concentrate on making opportunities count, not taking as many shots as fast as possible. Quality vs quantity. Old habits die hard I guess.
When it’s DG follow up shots have to fly.
 
My Hannibal from A-Square is on an Enfield 1917 action and the straight bolt sticks out pretty far. It’s a double-edged sword in that the first couple of times I shot it, I didn’t hold the pistol grip firmly and under recoil the bolt know slammed that hand hard enough to cause swelling. Once I learned to take a more assertive hold on the rifle, I discovered the protruding blot knob could be manipulated very quickly with considerable ease. Now, I wouldn’t change a thing. With magnaporting to reduce muzzle jump and a Rhodesian sling to maintain firm shoulder contact under heavy recoil, it’s surprisingly easy to fire carefully aimed follow ups.
 

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