Winchester Mod 70 Super Express help

[PARA45]

I have a Win Mod 70 Super express in 416 Rem Mag, that will not hold the last cartridge in the mag. The rifle cycles all cartridges without any issue, but when it gets to the last one, it pops out as I eject the cartridge before the last one. If I load a single cartridge, it pops right out too. Someone here suggested I stretch the spring a bit, and tried that, and it seems to help, but not enough. Has anyone had any suggestions, or had similar experience? Please let me know what worked for you. Oh, and please don't tell me to sell the rifle and buy another. Not going to do that to anyone. Thanks!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

You could swap out the magazine spring for either a Pre-64 M70 or Mauser 98 spring. The old military surplus springs seem to last forever...

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[BourbonTrail]

Stretch it some more!!

Seriously, that spring has to jam that follower all the way up tight or those fat cartridges just spit out. I got mine to hold the slick nickel plated ones by doing that, but Mark’s suggestion is a good one.

 

[Philip Glass]

I have a Win Mod 70 Super express in 416 Rem Mag, that will not hold the last cartridge in the mag. The rifle cycles all cartridges without any issue, but when it gets to the last one, it pops out as I eject the cartridge before the last one. If I load a single cartridge, it pops right out too. Someone here suggested I stretch the spring a bit, and tried that, and it seems to help, but not enough. Has anyone had any suggestions, or had similar experience? Please let me know what worked for you. Oh, and please don't tell me to sell the rifle and buy another. Not going to do that to anyone. Thanks!

For a DG gun like that I'd advise taking it to a good gunsmith.

 

[ldmay375]

I have replaced some springs that look like the magnum type / 2nd one in the picture, with the flat bend springs like the top one. This has cured similar issues in more than one M70 for me.

If you have another long action M70 with the flat bend, you could swap them and check feeding.

 

[PARA45]

@Idmay375, did you get that spring from Winchester?

 

[PARA45]

Thank you gents for your replies.

 

[ldmay375]

@Idmay375, did you get that spring from Winchester?

I ordered it from either MidWest Gun Works or one of the other firearms parts suppliers. I think it was MidWest, but cannot relocate the order email. Basically, had done a internet search for Model 70 magazine spring. Sorry cannot narrow it down. But, I have ordered several magazine, springs, followers, from 3 or 4 different firearms parts places. Most were OEM parts. It just depended on which place had whatever in stock.

 

[PARA45]

I've been looking just about everywhere, and there are no Win parts. I may have to see if the M98 springs work, since those are the only ones available.

 

[Cam300]

I've been looking just about everywhere, and there are no Win parts. I may have to see if the M98 springs work, since those are the only ones available.

Have you called Winchester? I had a similar problem with my model 70 - last cartridge wouldn’t feed. I tried to stretch it out and broke the factory spring, called Winchester, and they sent me a new one. It was the wrong spring so I replaced it with a M98 spring per the kind advice of a much smarter and more experienced AH’er! No issues since. It feeds perfectly now. All that to say - M98 spring worked for me, but it might be worth calling Winchester (just make sure they send the correct spring!)

 

[baxterb]

Yes I had a 375 that did this. But one question first, which follower do you have? Is it the double scooped one? Can you post a pic?

 

[PARA45]

Here are some pictures of the follower.

 

[baxterb]

Interesting. I had a 375 with the newer dual-cut follower and SOLVED my retention issue by going to an older follower model similar to yours. That dual cut out version did not keep the round under the rail.

I will say that the front of that follower looks quite narrow in the magazine with the gap you can see between the front and the right rail. I know when I fit my new follower it had no side to side wobble. I had to use a belt sander to very slowly narrow it for a perfect fit.

I am guessing there is quite a bit of left/right movement of the follower?

If there side to side and you feel like tinkering, build up the left side of the follower with painters tape to the point it moves the nose to the right. This test worked in my rifle to prove the follower was the likely culprit, as I had already verified the mag box was correct (per winchester's spec) and the rails were OK given that the only issue was with the last (or first, depending on how you see it) round.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Here are some pictures of the follower.

View attachment 519840View attachment 519841

Yeah, my follower used to sit in the mag well just like yours and always spit out the last round.

Hmm… I’m going to try something next weekend, and talk to a machinist friend of mine. If it works I will shoot you a PM.

 

[PARA45]

I messed with the spring a bit more and stretched it some more. The last cartridge is holding and cycled all the cartridges without any issues. It seems that the rifle has a weak spring.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Wyatt's in OR deals in all sorts of custom (improved) magazines (all steel mags, increased mag capacity, longer, etc. etc.) I'd contact him and he'll have a better-than-stock option. One M70 has the same issue. The temporary solution being always keep the mag full! I don't think the factory spring has the required tensile strength for heavy cartridges, when just 1 is left in the mag and it's less-compressed. I bought a new SS spring from Brownell's but haven't taken the 0.5 min required to install it...

 

[baxterb]

I messed with the spring a bit more and stretched it some more. The last cartridge is holding and cycled all the cartridges without any issues. It seems that the rifle has a weak spring.

Good!

One thing about springs I learned from DArcy Echols is that they can have weak spots which means the spring rate is not consistent throughout it's travel. I was at his shop working on a 9.3 with him and when we tested many springs to find the best one. Take the spring out of the rifle and with it on the bench, push it down evenly - depending on the spring, the front or rear may dip/give quickly at some point in the travel down, indicating a weak or inconsistent spot. This can also affect feeding as it affects the upward pressure on the rounds. Jim Wisner also mentioned this to me.

In any case - glad you got it sorted. feeding can be a pandoras box.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

As I previously posted, $10 will buy you a Mauser M98 magazine spring that will solve your feeding problems. It really is that simple!

You are welcome...

 

[JHT]

@PARA45, although it sounds like you've got it sorted, I'm not convinced it was ever a spring issue. I suspect your problem is/was the follower. It was a common problem among the Super Expresses of that era that the follower fails to push the cartridge far enough to the right to jam the last round underneath the feed rail. I suspect @baxterb is correct that if you apply a strip or two of painters tape (or carpet tape with the slick side out) to the left side of the follower that it will force the round far enough to the right to correct the issue - regardless of how fast or hard you cycle the bolt.
Once you get the correct thickness of tape then you can mail the follower to a competent gunsmith who can replace the tape with a more durable and permanent material thus fixing the issue for good.