Winchester 70 Safari Cycling Issue?

Tucketed

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I have a new model 70 Winchester Safari in 375HH. I have shot maybe 30 rounds. I recently purchased 4 A-Zoom dry fire rounds to practice cycling and firing at home from sticks. Not sure if it is operator error or feed issues. Here is the issue. Chamber an A-Zoom round and 3 in the magazine. The chambered round after firing ejects great but the top round from the magazine ejects with little force. Next two eject nicely. Even with two in the magazine the top one more often than not ejects poorly but the last ejects with proper energy. My operation of the bolt is crisp and same but this top magazine round seems to always have an issue. I have done this numerous times today and it’s a little perplexing. Not sure if it’s me and loading the magazine, the A Zoom dummy rounds or an issue. I have not cycled more than one round while shooting real ammo but when I did it seemed fine. Any ideas?
 

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Don’t make judgements based on dummy rounds. You don’t need them anyway. Modern firearms are designed to be dry fired. If going after DG you need to run three shots very fast many time to test your gun for malfunctions. Work the bolt very hard and try to make it malfunction. Get a shoulder pad.
Philip
 

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Thanks Philip, Just been shooting from sticks but no fast cycling as of yet. I have a pad but haven’t needed it yet. Thought some indoor practice doesn’t hurt. Traveling next two weeks but when I am back will cycle real ammo. Just thought it strange all eject well except top round.
Ed
 

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I read "new" so assuming a current FN M 70 which would be CRF. The rounds in magazine should have no affect on how a cart ejects. If it is a CRF, the extractor grabs the rim and the standing ejector blade hits the cartridge base as the round nears the rear end of bolt travel- the opposing action of the two is translated into flipping the cart out of the port. If PF, the rim is held by an extractor within the right bolt lug while the ejector plunger puts constant side pressure on the cartridge base holding the front part of the cart against the inside of the receiver until it clears the port whereupon the cart flips clear of the port. The rounds in the magazine in either type of extractor/ejector design should not affect ejection--- so I dunno??? And as has been posted, always practice using a firm, positive and fast bolt throw both when ramming forward to load and when ejecting... to simulate real field conditions. Most Mauser type systems operate best with firm positive forward and rearward bolt operation.

If the dummy rounds are heavy like a regular loaded round, they will feel and act very sluggish (even when using firm bolt operation) during ejection. While an empty, fired case will have a completely different feel and the ejection should be crisp.
 
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Hoss Delgado

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My own Pre war Winchester Model 70 in .375 HH Magnum needed some serious work to the feed ramp to properly feed soft nose 300 grainers
 

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All of the rounds eject crisply launching feet except for top one on the magazine which basically folds out and drops
 

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My own Pre war Winchester Model 70 in .375 HH Magnum needed some serious work to the feed ramp to properly feed soft nose 300 grainers

Hello my good friend Squire Delgado,

Please tell me that somehow......someway you are going to worg into this thread just how bad Remingtons are with feed problems.

...I just couldn't help myself....:A Banana:
 

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Hello my good friend Squire Delgado,

Please tell me that somehow......someway you are going to worg into this thread just how bad Remingtons are with feed problems.

...I just couldn't help myself....:A Banana:
Hi , Von S :D Nice to hear from you again .
Oooo . Looks like you finally got me with that one :p . I accept defeat. :( I do have one excuse for the Winchester though ( a piss poor one to be honest ) . It always worked with solids though and the problem was only with soft points . :) I like the control feed Winchesters more than Pushfeed Remingtons ( though an expert can competently use both even in high stress situations , l am sure ). My FAVORITE rifle action is the BRNO ZKK - 602 , actually , if l could only name one .
Hope you are well , my friend .
Hoss Delgado
PS : I was thinking about inboxing you recently. I saw a post where you mentioned you once used to use a 10 gauge Over Under for Leopard :D The 10 gauge Over Unders are so rare . Was yours an American Arms O/U ? Someday l will own one . I bet it was really effective on leopard with 000 buckshot
 
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I have a new model 70 Winchester Safari in 375HH. I have shot maybe 30 rounds. I recently purchased 4 A-Zoom dry fire rounds to practice cycling and firing at home from sticks. Not sure if it is operator error or feed issues. Here is the issue. Chamber an A-Zoom round and 3 in the magazine. The chambered round after firing ejects great but the top round from the magazine ejects with little force. Next two eject nicely. Even with two in the magazine the top one more often than not ejects poorly but the last ejects with proper energy. My operation of the bolt is crisp and same but this top magazine round seems to always have an issue. I have done this numerous times today and it’s a little perplexing. Not sure if it’s me and loading the magazine, the A Zoom dummy rounds or an issue. I have not cycled more than one round while shooting real ammo but when I did it seemed fine. Any ideas?
The A-Zooms are good quality but they can cylcle differently than brass cartridges. The milled aluminum sides aren't as smooth as brass. I don't know if this would make the difference you are seeing, though. Anyway, I think the main benefit of using snap caps in this way is just to safely get basic familiarity with a new gun. One can then practice through a combination of dry firing and actual shooting.
 

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The tension of the magazine spring can cause ejection issues. What happens is, the round on the top of the magazine puts tension on the round being ejected and can cause it to get pinched between the top round and the action rail. If you tweak the spring so it takes some of the tension off of the BACK of the cartridges in the magazine, it may help. My 416 Rem Model 70 was doing the same thing, and this helped.
 

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Instead of the A-zooms, load some brass with different bullets but no primers or powder to the oal in your manual. If you want the feel of a "real" round use a FIRED primer and charge the case per normal. Run the gun like you would in the field. I have a Win 70 Safari Express 375HH and my dummies are loaded rounds with a FIRED primer. I have no problems with anything I stuff into it. I would suggest you mark your dummies so you don't take them into the field and wonder why the hell they don"t fire.
 

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Modern firearms are designed to be dry fired.

Hi, Philip,
Can you explain this in more details?
What makes modern firearm different from vintage guns, when it comes to dry fire?

First time I hear that, and I am using dummy rounds for dry firing in rifles, but also in shotgun with single trigger.

Thank you in advance!
 

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Hi , Von S :D Nice to hear from you again .
Oooo . Looks like you finally got me with that one :p . I accept defeat. :( I do have one excuse for the Winchester though ( a piss poor one to be honest ) . It always worked with solids though and the problem was only with soft points . :) I like the control feed Winchesters more than Pushfeed Remingtons ( though an expert can competently use both even in high stress situations , l am sure ). My FAVORITE rifle action is the BRNO ZKK - 602 , actually , if l could only name one .
Hope you are well , my friend .
Hoss Delgado
PS : I was thinking about inboxing you recently. I saw a post where you mentioned you once used to use a 10 gauge Over Under for Leopard :D The 10 gauge Over Unders are so rare . Was yours an American Arms O/U ? Someday l will own one . I bet it was really effective on leopard with 000 buckshot

Hoss

I am genuinely happy to say that I never ever had to point that o/u at a leopard , wounded or otherwise, and shoot it with buckshot of any size as after firing it appeared that after 30 feet the pattern seemed to open up quite a bit. So much so that I would be leary about it's use.

You may have noticed that I don't use the line , "I recomend ....." anything here but will say that I thank god that I had the sense to never shoot at a big cat with shot of any size.

Back on topic........any weapon can misfeed, jamb, break, or just quit working with little to no warning no matter who made it or what arrogant pretentious babbler has to say about how what he has is superior and what other guys have is not.

Firing pins can and still do break, though I have found that these days most problems happen with 22 rimfire and sxs weapons.
 

Hoss Delgado

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Hoss

I am genuinely happy to say that I never ever had to point that o/u at a leopard , wounded or otherwise, and shoot it with buckshot of any size as after firing it appeared that after 30 feet the pattern seemed to open up quite a bit. So much so that I would be leary about it's use.

You may have noticed that I don't use the line , "I recomend ....." anything here but will say that I thank god that I had the sense to never shoot at a big cat with shot of any size.

Back on topic........any weapon can misfeed, jamb, break, or just quit working with little to no warning no matter who made it or what arrogant pretentious babbler has to say about how what he has is superior and what other guys have is not.

Firing pins can and still do break, though I have found that these days most problems happen with 22 rimfire and sxs weapons.
I apologise if my dislike for Pushfeeds came off as Arrogant , Von S :( It is not my intention to ever belittle another person or their tools :) on purpose.
You old timers have a very laid back attitude about certain types of fire arms which l find most interesting :)
You often see us younger generation ( relatively young , since l turned 40 this 25th August :p ) worry about things like Pushfeeds being unreliable and the .458 Winchester Magnum being a poor penetrator. Yet , your generation finds Pushfeeds and .458 Win Mags totally adequate. To say nothing of .460 Weatherby Magnums. And in all probability considering how many Pushfeeds have taken DG in Africa chambered in the .458 Winchester Magnum , lt goes without saying that you are right. While Monolithic meplat brass Solids are all the rage in today's hunting, you are there to remind people that the humble Full metal Jacket Bullet is perfectly adequate too. I mean this as a compliment :) I was talking to retired PH Terry Irwin the other day and we exchanged correspondence . He himself attributes his greatest success of 1000 + Elephant , to his .458 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Shoenauer custom rifle.
You're right about .22 Rimfires breaking. I recently saw a Browning T Bolt in .22 Magnum which had a broken Firing pin.
Thanks as always ,
Hoss :)
P.S : I STILL WANT a 10 gauge over under :( Was yours an American Arms model ? And what kind of chokes did it have ?
 

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Uh Hoss......

I wasn't even thinking about you in terms or arrogance or pretention......you're a good kid and I tip my worn out baseball hat to your comittment as a good sportsman and a fine gentelman..... your parents did a fine job with you and their pride in you is more than justified.

So there! :A Yell:

That 10 ga is now gone, but before it left I made some wax impregnated #4 buck loads that I shot a deer with at 50 yards and it was instantaniously murdered in it's tracks.

Oh, because of damage I cut the barrels off pretty short and put sights on it. Shot pretty good.

Snother thing ....You were right about the ap 06 rounds being 165"s.... keep up the good work.:P Viking:
 

Hoss Delgado

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Uh Hoss......

I wasn't even thinking about you in terms or arrogance or pretention......you're a good kid and I tip my worn out baseball hat to your comittment as a good sportsman and a fine gentelman..... your parents did a fine job with you and their pride in you is more than justified.

So there! :A Yell:

That 10 ga is now gone, but before it left I made some wax impregnated #4 buck loads that I shot a deer with at 50 yards and it was instantaniously murdered in it's tracks.

Oh, because of damage I cut the barrels off pretty short and put sights on it. Shot pretty good.

Snother thing ....You were right about the ap 06 rounds being 165"s.... keep up the good work.:P Viking:
Thanks Von S :) . Someday , l'll get an American Arms Over Under just like yours in 10 gauge. Problem is , the only ones l see are all full choke :(
 

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Hoss,
Thank you for not ridiculing us "ancients". I'm 79 and when I grew up it was Win Silvertips and Rem Corlokt and milsurp ball. That was long before all these newfangled copper, mono this or that and specialty bullets. As I recall we did quite alright with what we had. I do think the new breed of ammo has some good things going for it and I am a convert. Barnes TSX for all my rifles.
 

Hoss Delgado

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Hoss,
Thank you for not ridiculing us "ancients". I'm 79 and when I grew up it was Win Silvertips and Rem Corlokt and milsurp ball. That was long before all these newfangled copper, mono this or that and specialty bullets. As I recall we did quite alright with what we had. I do think the new breed of ammo has some good things going for it and I am a convert. Barnes TSX for all my rifles.
I LOVE Winchester Silvertips ! :D My Grandad gifted me a vintage box of .375 HH Magnum Winchester Silvertips with his Winchester Model 70 when l first was gifted that gun in 2006. Like a trigger happy Idiot , l wasted the whole box in 3 Deer seasons , bagging white tails left and right. It was ONLY AFTER I BURNT THROUGH THAT WHOLE BOX THAT I REALIZED THAT WINCHESTER SILVERTIPS ARE DISCONTINUED IN .375 HH MAGNUM. Luckily , thanks to the help of some really kind forum members here , l have started buying them whenever l can at online auctions :D
And yes , milsurp ammo can be really effective.
My Dad owns an Enfield 1917 which he used to Take to India in the 1960s for Hunting Panthers , Sambar Deer , Wild boar and even Gaur ( Indian Bison ) . The only Ammunition he had back in those days was .30-06 Military surplus Armor piercing 168 grain Tapered point solids ( spitzers ) which was available back in those days in Olive green coloured Tins .
He brought home quite as few trophies. Dad even used the gun on Indian Bison with mixed results. Apparently , you can locate the brain on a bovine by drawing an imaginary line from the bottom of the left ear to the right eye and another imaginary line from the bottom of the right ear to the left eye. The Brain is apparently where the lines intersect.
Dad would shoot them Gaurs here with the .30-06 . Sometimes , the bullets would reach the brain and they'd drop. Often , they would deviate slightly from a straight course upon hitting the Gaur's skull and deflect. Then , Dad's Shikari ( Indian Professional Hunter ) would finish off the animal with a .470 Nitro Express Double Rifle.
Now , as his son , l am ashamed to say that even with more modern .375 HH Magnum Cutting Edge Monolithic meplat brass Solids , l am afraid to aim for the head when l am hunting Australian Water Buffalo. I always play it safe by going for the double lung shot as it's the widest target :D.
I admire you guy's generation because , while my generation is spoilt for choice with so many good choices , you guys had to make to with a lot less , which gives you guys a positive view of many guns and bullets which we ( youngsters ) view as inadequate :)
 
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Hoss Delgado

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Hoss,
Thank you for not ridiculing us "ancients". I'm 79 and when I grew up it was Win Silvertips and Rem Corlokt and milsurp ball. That was long before all these newfangled copper, mono this or that and specialty bullets. As I recall we did quite alright with what we had. I do think the new breed of ammo has some good things going for it and I am a convert. Barnes TSX for all my rifles.
And Ditto about being a convert. I almost exclusively use Cutting Edge Monolithic meplat brass Solids in my .375 HH Magnum Winchester Model 70 and my .375 HH Magnum BRNO ZKK - 602. The only full metal jacket rounds l use now , are Kynoch round nose FMJ solids for my .350 Rigby Magnum Custom ZKK- 602 because they don't make monolithic solids for this caliber.
I also have some Kynoch Round nosed full metal jacket .375 HH Magnum rounds lying around in my Closet. :)
 

One Day...

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Hi, Philip,
Can you explain this in more details?
What makes modern firearm different from vintage guns, when it comes to dry fire?
First time I hear that, and I am using dummy rounds for dry firing in rifles, but also in shotgun with single trigger.
Thank you in advance!
Here is the answer mark-hunter:

Center fire rifles
There is no change in design between "vintage rifles" and "modern rifles" that would lead to advise for or against dry firing. The fundamental change, because there is a fundamental change, is in the quality of the steel, or more specifically, in the hardening process of the steel. Vintage rifles (bolt action or doubles) or shotguns were more prone to break firing pins because in general those were hardened and made brittle during the hardening process. Breaking a firing pin is a rarity on modern center fire rifles because in general the firing pins are not hardened after manufacturing and are not made brittle. Dry firing by the tens of thousand is indeed highly recommended and practiced by competition shooters (rifles or handguns) as a training exercise.

Rim fire rifles
In many rim fire rifles or handguns, the firing pin will actually strike the edge of the chamber when dry fired. In all cases, pinning the edge of the chamber will progressively damage its concentricity and cause feeding and extraction problems. In many cases, the firing pin - which was not designed to act as a punch - will break. This is the reason why to this day it is highly recommended to NOT dry fire rim fire rifles or handguns, although, admittedly, some designs prevent the firing pin from protuberating deeply enough to hit the edge of the chamber.

And then...
And then, as Von S says "any weapon can misfeed, jamb, break, or just quit working with little to no warning no matter who made it", or in so many words: the fecal matter can hit the impeller any time, any place, with admirable force...

I hope this answers the question :)
 
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