Which is a more "classic" African cartridge, the 303 British or the 7x57 Mauser/275 Rigby?

[PCC600]

.275 Rigby
or
Lee Speed in a .303

The Mannlicher Schoenauer was introduced in 1900, chambered for the rimless 6.5X54.

All model M1903 MS were chambered for it, as were the Y1903 military models and variants.

Mannlichers from 1891 had used the rimmed 6.5X53 (6.5X53.5mmR) which, other than the rim, is identical to the rimless 6.5X54MS. That cartridge has long been referred to as '.256 Mannlicher'.

The 6.5X54 MS uses a .264 projectile through a barrel with .256 lands.

View attachment 708134

A great cartridge with a wonderful rifle . Would I prefer a 6.5 Creedmore ? I don’t think so .

 

[mauser98]

My pick is the 7x57 Mauser. The 303 Brit is also up there, no doubt.

 

[FlyGuy]

War created our best plains game cartridges and actions.
Most 6.5’s, 30-06, 7x57, 303 etc.

DG hunting didn’t even feature when the Mauser brothers designed the CRF we all love so much. It was designed that way so that a soldier could reliably load the rifle while laying on his back, when he was taking cover with bullets zipping all around him.

The Lee Enfield design was to send as much firepower down range as possible.
Two well trained British riflemen could keep more lead in the air with their 303’s than twenty dudes could today with straight pull rifles like the Blaser R8.
The exact number escapes me, but they could average up to two shots per second if I remember correctly.

Bottom line for the OP, buy both! You won’t regret it.

 

[Muskox]

A great cartridge with a wonderful rifle . Would I prefer a 6.5 Creedmore ? I don’t think so .

I own a 6.5 CM, and while it may have be the K-Mart version of other classic 6.5mm rifle cartridges. It is available everywhere and it is accurate.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Opinions on which is a more classic African cartridge, the 303 British or the 7x57 Mauser/275 Rigby? What are your thoughts?

@dhughes66
Both are classic British cartridges for use in Africa but there's others that are just as classic depending on who ran what country. The Germans had the 8x57 and 9.3x62 as classics.
It's a hard question to answer as both/all have killed truck loads of game.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What caliber did Bell use?

@Tanks
6.4x54 MS
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

 

[dhughes66]

@dhughes66
Both are classic British cartridges for use in Africa but there's others that are just as classic depending on who ran what country. The Germans had the 8x57 and 9.3x62 as classics.
It's a hard question to answer as both/all have killed truck loads of game.
Bob

Bob, I almost included those two as well. Haha.

 

[Flbt]

Bob, I almost included those two as well. Haha.

What was the classic cals where the French were in Africa?

 

[Elkeater]

Funny that I stumbled on this thread. I am currently debating between a Ruger No. 1 in .275 Rigby and a Uberti Courteney Stalking rifle in .303 British which is built on a reproduction Winchester 1885 action.

I’m leaning at the .303 because I don’t own anything like it. Why I’m itching for a single shot falling block rifle I have no idea other than I want one to mess around with.

 

[Flbt]

Funny that I stumbled on this thread. I am currently debating between a Ruger No. 1 in .275 Rigby and a Uberti Courteney Stalking rifle in .303 British which is built on a reproduction Winchester 1885 action.

I’m leaning at the .303 because I don’t own anything like it. Why I’m itching for a single shot falling block rifle I have no idea other than I want one to mess around with.

I like the stalking rifle.
I want one.
My brother in law has one he just target shoots no hunting.
That 303 needs to hunt. My grand niece was able to get a 3 in 5 shot group at 100yd standing. He was using hand loads I think it was hornday interlock.

 

[FlyGuy]

Funny that I stumbled on this thread. I am currently debating between a Ruger No. 1 in .275 Rigby and a Uberti Courteney Stalking rifle in .303 British which is built on a reproduction Winchester 1885 action.

I’m leaning at the .303 because I don’t own anything like it. Why I’m itching for a single shot falling block rifle I have no idea other than I want one to mess around

If you roll your own, you can get seriously impressive performance out of the 303 with that action.
The old Brit can exceed the .308 when reloaded properly.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If you roll your own, you can get seriously impressive performance out of the 303 with that action.
The old Brit can exceed the .308 when reloaded properly.

@FlyGuy
Unfortunately the Uberti stalking rifle WON'T take the same pressures the ruger No1 will.
Bob

 

[PCC600]

If you roll your own, you can get seriously impressive performance out of the 303 with that action.
The old Brit can exceed the .308 when reloaded properly.

Agree 100% . I think it is superior to the 308 and can also handle heavier bullet .

 

[Elkeater]

If you roll your own, you can get seriously impressive performance out of the 303 with that action.
The old Brit can exceed the .308 when reloaded properly.

I do roll my own. But I think the beauty of a stalking rifle would be to ease back in the throttle a bit and have a nice sleek rifle (I would not really consider scoping it) that had a nice mild recoil. Still debating though.

 

[mauser98]

@dhughes66
Both are classic British cartridges for use in Africa but there's others that are just as classic depending on who ran what country. The Germans had the 8x57 and 9.3x62 as classics.
It's a hard question to answer as both/all have killed truck loads of game.
Bob

Agreed, both classics and should also be in the conversation. If and and when I do make it to Africa one of my rifles will for sure be in 8x57 for plains game.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

A great cartridge with a wonderful rifle . Would I prefer a 6.5 Creedmore ? I don’t think so .

Hold a properly lubricated Mannlicher Schoenauer in left hand, open bolt fully with right, move right hand to hold trigger (main if double) back, tilt muzzle downward. The bolt will slide home (at about 30 - 40 degrees) as if on melted butter and close, lock, with a satisfying 'snap'.

Show me a 6.5 Creedmoor with such fine balance and machining; there may be something there.
Now, for cast of stock and inherent 'pointability'... .

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

@Tanks
6.4x54 MS
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

W.D.M. Bell did use a Gibbs built 6.5X54MS but wrote extensively of his dissatisfaction with British made cartridges that were available to him.

For such reason, the MS was mostly relegated to 'meat for the pot' use which he dutifully documented.

He primarily used 7X57 (.275 Rigby) for elephant after having _very_ well documented (with drawings of results) the fact that projectiles of the 6.5X54MS ammo available to him bent badly and penetrated poorly through such large game. He did, however, note fondness of the '.303 British'.

 

[MS 9x56]

Exactly 1893 as the 6.5x54R and 1908 for the 6.5x54 MS. Was no 256 MS until later.

The 223 is actually first not the 5.56x45. 223 came out in 1964 and there was no 5.56x45 until the Belgians decided to adopt it in the 1970's and NATO and then USA. Pushing Eugene Stoner to make the 222 version of the AR-15 work. 223 Chambers are tighter than the 5.56 chambers because of military tolerance, but they are similar enough to be considered the same cartridge.

Also true of the 308 WCF came out in 1952, but it was part of of the T51 trials in the 1940's even though the cartridge originally looked a lot more like a 300 Savage, at some point Winchester saw the cartridge and got samples before the initial release, and they beat the military to final release by a couple of years. So you could say the 308 name was first in 1952, but it really was not first as the development of the 1954 introduced 7.62x51 had been years prior.

Commonly it is the 308, no matter the date. The news media will occasionally call it the 7.62. No one I know that is a hunter calls it the 7.62.

The 223 is more commonly known outside of hunters as the 5.56.

Another strange thing that happens in gun circles is people cal CZ 550's a Brno or "Bruno". Because they want to call it a Brno because that was the original. CZ and Brno are different companies.

The only people who call 308 the 7.62 are veterans and they are pretty rare.

 

[PCC600]

Hold a properly lubricated Mannlicher Schoenauer in left hand, open bolt fully with right, move right hand to hold trigger (main if double) back, tilt muzzle downward. The bolt will slide home (at about 30 - 40 degrees) as if on melted butter and close, lock, with a satisfying 'snap'.

Show me a 6.5 Creedmoor with such fine balance and machining; there may be something there.
Now, for cast of stock and inherent 'pointability'... .

Not only will the bolt slide home it will chamber a round . I’ve done this using a dummy round with my MS but could be very dangerous with a live round . The MS rifles are very beautifully engineered and a really great looking firearm .