When the good stuff doesn't work!!!

[Ontario Hunter]

This week a client shot a zebra at 180 meters with a 30.06 using Federal Terminal Acsent 175 grain ammunition... (great bullet) the shot entered behind the shoulder and did not come out the other side, it came out in the chest, curved inside the animal and touched the ground at an incredible speed, if there had been another zebra walking next to this one (not behind but to the side) it would have been hit too, I have a film of this bizarre episode, I'll see if I can put it here for my friend to see! How inexplicable are bullets and their whims.

I don't know how to post the video here, so I paused the video and took a picture of the cell phone screen, see the shot enters behind the right shoulder, exits in the chest and hits the middle of the road raising dust, this happens so fast that the zebra hasn't felt the blast yet, how can the bullet make a curve like that?!!!View attachment 704810

Hitting that zebra on the right behind the right shoulder didn't leave much margin for error missing the one in the forefront. Risky shot. Don't think I would have tried it, especially at that distance. Certainly was strange bullet behavior!

 

[JimP]

You might want to contact Barnes with your findings.

Real life experiences are a thousand times better than shooting into ballistic gel to see what a bullet will do and just might get them to look at them a little bit different.

 

[analog_peninsula]

With one picture, you’ve just explained the Kennedy assassination.

 

[Green Chile]

I appreciate what you're saying but I will disagree with the broad based statement you make. You seem to imply that if more of us looked then we would find a lot more TSX failures. I communicate with a lot of PHs who strongly recommend TSX based upon their own experiences. Many of us dig out bullets and by far, the vast majority of TSXs are not "failures". Also, many TSXs expand and exit to not be recovered. It's also interesting to discuss bullet failures while you are pulling them out of dead animals. The purpose was to kill the animal and that was accomplished. I have lost track of the number of 1 shot kills by TSX that I have personally had or witnessed. Is it a failure to look like a bullet marketing ad? These bullets are killing all kinds of PG and DG reliably or the PHs would not be recommending them. Some don't like them...most do. I get tired of hearing about A-frames...they have failed to keep them in the supply chain consistently for years.

 

[skydiver386]

I think any projectile can fail when fired at an angled target. I've seen several bullets fail, archery broadheads fail, etc.

Basic physics dictates that the more a surface is angled, the more likely any projectile is to glance off and change direction, rather than penetrate the target.

 

[mdwest]

My PH said copper bullets require extra velocity to make them perform properly. I'd be interested to know others' thoughts on that.

It has been my experience that TSX and TTSX perform best with a little speed on them.. that said, unless youre already starting slow (say 2100 fps) and shooting at distance, most calibers support TSX and TTSX just fine.. Barnes recommends an impact speed of at least 1900 fps for TSX... I personally try to keep it above 2000, and never have a problem..

My 308 load has a muzzle velocity of 2750 FPS.. and I dont engage with it past 300 yards.. so.. speed is a non issue.. my 300 PRC has a MV of 3010 FPS.. and I dont engage with it past 400 yards.. so, again, speed is a non issue..

My 375 H&H throws 300gr TSX at 2525 FPS.. and Ive never shot anything past 70 yards with it.. so, again, non issue.. and my 416 Taylor is strictly a DG gun (intended use is 50 yards and in) that has a MV of 2325 with a 400 gr bullet, so, once again, velocity is a non issue..

Ive shot TSX and TTSX almost exclusively for years across pretty much all of my platforms and across I'd guess a dozen or more different cartridges.. the only real exception are my 556 AR's... and never had a failure on any animal ranging from springbok to cape buffalo in South Africa, and any/all big game in North America..

I am absolutely certain that under the right circumstances it could fail.. all things can.. but Im hundreds upon hundreds of animals into TSX and TTSX and havent had a problem yet.. So, I'll keep using them..

All of that said, I am also a big fan of A-Frame and probably would have standardized with them years ago, but at the time I was looking for a one size fits all solution, A-Frames were practically unobtainable across even the most common calibers.. So I went with barnes and just stayed there after all of my loads were developed and my bench was fully stocked, etc..

 

[TOBY458]

I appreciate what you're saying but I will disagree with the broad based statement you make. You seem to imply that if more of us looked then we would find a lot more TSX failures. I communicate with a lot of PHs who strongly recommend TSX based upon their own experiences. Many of us dig out bullets and by far, the vast majority of TSXs are not "failures". Also, many TSXs expand and exit to not be recovered. It's also interesting to discuss bullet failures while you are pulling them out of dead animals. The purpose was to kill the animal and that was accomplished. I have lost track of the number of 1 shot kills by TSX that I have personally had or witnessed. Is it a failure to look like a bullet marketing ad? These bullets are killing all kinds of PG and DG reliably or the PHs would not be recommending them. Some don't like them...most do. I get tired of hearing about A-frames...they have failed to keep them in the supply chain consistently for years.

Correct about the A Frames. You’d think as much as they advertise on Africa hunting shows, they’d cater to the larger calibers more. 375 and up, as you say, are hard to come by for the most part. Barnes is always available and it looks like Northfork is stepping up to the plate as well.

 

[Arctic97]

I like to leave ammo for the PH's when I go. I left a batch of 270 gr, in 375 H&H cal for a PH and he sends me pics of bagged animals which I enjoy receiving. He uses TSX and likes and recommends them. He had this to say about the following pictures he sent me. So as has been said here, failure happens.....

The Barnes worked this week ! 3 buffalo safari done and dusted....some from sable, some from kudu, but most from buff

One Barnes failed, but penetrated well....I've seen them do it twice before....They all fail, Barnes just fail less...

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I like to leave ammo for the PH's when I go. I left a batch of 270 gr, in 375 H&H cal for a PH and he sends me pics of bagged animals which I enjoy receiving. He uses TSX and likes and recommends them. He had this to say about the following pictures he sent me. So as has been said here, failure happens.....

The Barnes worked this week ! 3 buffalo safari done and dusted....some from sable, some from kudu, but most from buff
View attachment 704847
One Barnes failed, but penetrated well....I've seen them do it twice before....They all fail, Barnes just fail less...
View attachment 704848

Gotta say, I never retrieved a conventional cup and core bullet that killed an animal and looked like that. Many were not recovered but the exit wounds left no doubt they had achieved significant expansion before departing. Keep in mind my experience is extensive but almost exclusively 30-06. So there's that.

 

[PARA45]

I've shot the following animals with a 375 H&H, TSX 300 grs Barnes Vortex ammo. Warthog, Nyala, Kudu (3), Black Wildebeest, Red Hartebeest, Bushbuck, cow Cape Buffalo, Lioness, and a bull Cape Buffalo. All dead from one shot, with the exception of the Red Hartebeest which my PH told me that I had missed and to shoot again; both holes were about an inch apart. BTW one of those Kudus was shot at 312 yds away, quartering away, and we laughed thinking we were going to recover a bullet. Nope, exit on the front shoulder. The only bullet I've recovered is from the Cape Buffalo, and it is picture perfect. The more I've used this ammo, the more I like and trust Barnes bullets. Both PHs I've hunted with in the Eastern Cape, loved them.

 

[Green Chile]

Your experience echoes what I have seen in many others. I haven't used TSX on cats (prefer a softer bullet) but I sure like it for almost everything else except elephant.

 

[Spearhead]

TSX 375 h&h 300 grain pushed with 72.8 grains H4350, chronograph read 2457fps.
Left to right, eland, kudu and Hartmann zebra.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

It’s not necessarily the fault of Barnes, it’s the fault of a hollow point. They require hydraulic pressure to expand. If you shoot something that happens to plug up or pinch shut the cavity expansion will be affected.

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

Hitting that zebra on the right behind the right shoulder didn't leave much margin for error missing the one in the forefront. Risky shot. Don't think I would have tried it, especially at that distance. Certainly was strange bullet behavior!

My client is 87 years old, his reflexes are no longer the same, he took a while and the zebra moved, what matters is that in the end everything worked out.

 

[BeeMaa]

I leave in 10 days for a safari where I plan on using 375H&H Barnes 300 grain TSX for buffalo. I hope to be at the skinning shed (with a G&T) investigating how that bullet performed. Results to follow...

 

[PARA45]

Where are you going brother? Good luck to ya and I know those aTSX will serve you well.

 

[Flbt]

I know this post will stir up controversy. Many will disbelieve what I'm about to say, others will say my ammunition is slow and things like that, because I know you Americans love these bullets, but... I'm going to share here a few years of experience using monolithic bullets for big game hunting!

In almost 10 years of guiding hunting safaris in African countries, examining, collecting, and recording everything I can about hunting bullets and their actual performance against resilient African wildlife, I've discovered that monolithic expanding bullets, even the highest quality ones, when fired at the sides of animals at tight angles (back to front or front to back), can fail! What happens is that the tip deforms due to the lateral entry angle, and then the small opening responsible for initiating expansion closes! The bullet doesn't open and penetrate like a solid bullet. However, it doesn't behave like a solid bullet, often having an irregular trajectory within the animal. I've lost animals this way and had to finance others (mainly buffalo) injured by clients for exactly this reason! So, be careful with these shots at tight angles when using monolithic bullets without plastic tips! Important note: I love the Barnes TSX and especially the TTSX designs for buffalo. For every two or three hundred that work perfectly, I've had one that didn't. That's why I continue to use and recommend them.

View attachment 704780

I have no African experience.
But when I had problems and couldn’t use anything that recoiled. I Tryed the barns x on deer with a 223 and had problems with it.
The one we found dead with no blood trail after she went bad we got the bullet out it looked like the one where a little part of the tip tore lose
I stoped using a 223 for deer and have not used a copper hp again.
Until I got a 6.5 Grendel during the coof flu
I could only get wolf fmj and barns x with the tip
I still did not like the way it did. A buddy gave me some federal fusion it made a really good deer round then.
If I would have had to stuck with the barns I would not have kept the Grendel.

 

[Spearhead]

I leave in 10 days for a safari where I plan on using 375H&H Barnes 300 grain TSX for buffalo. I hope to be at the skinning shed (with a G&T) investigating how that bullet performed. Results to follow...

@BeeMaa , many photos too please when you get back! Excited for you. What weight barrel are you using?

 

[BeeMaa]

Where are you going brother? Good luck to ya and I know those aTSX will serve you well.

RSA. Looking for an OLD buffalo. Grey face, worn down horns, hair slip, battle scars and long since kicked out of the herd.

@BeeMaa , many photos too please when you get back! Excited for you. What weight barrel are you using?

17mm standard profile with iron sights.

 

[Ridge Runner]

lol... absolutely nothing against Americans, QUITE the opposite, without you and your wonderful industries, animals would be harder to die!! and if there's one thing I've learned in all these years getting dirty in shit and blood to find small bullets inside big animals is that there's a "ballistics of chaos"... bullets sometimes do unbelievable things until their energy runs out and they stop!View attachment 704799

Out of curiosity.

Who, What, Where,...There's got to be a fascinating story I would definitely like to hear...How that 22 Long Rifle ended up in an animal.