What next?

[PeteG]

Brno 602 458 Lott

Or go slightly different with the 450rigby or the 458 express.

 

[Pheroze]

Yes indeed the 500 Jeffery is an iconic cartridge and more than capable of giving you all the sleepless nights of planning the build that any project might do and of course all the excitment you could stand when you get to the testing and hunting of it.

I had read that getting it to feed was an issue, but that one seems well sorted!

 

[Pheroze]

Or go slightly different with the 450rigby or the 458 express.

A South African solution is very tempting. Although I admit to being intimidated by a 458 cartridge with more capacity than the Lott!

 

[PeteG]

A South African solution is very tempting. Although I admit to being intimidated by a 458 cartridge with more capacity than the Lott!

I'll happily stand by and watch you pull the trigger...

 

[Shootist43]

Pheroze, if Katharina (a cute and fairly spunky 18 year old girl) can shoot a 500 Jeffery so can you.

 

[Pheroze]

Pheroze, if Katharina (a cute and fairly spunky 18 year old girl) can shoot a 500 Jeffery so can you.

Many, many years ago I recall 18 year old girls being a source of much pain and angst, so I figure they must be tougher than me anyways

 

[Pheroze]

The SD values for the 458 and 475 call bullets seem much better than the 510, so that is academically appealing. But, I don't know if that matters once you are dealing with that much mass. What do you think?

 

[Boyd Brooks]

The SD values for the 458 and 475 call bullets seem much better than the 510, so that is academically appealing. But, I don't know if that matters once you are dealing with that much mass. What do you think?

I don't think a brain shot pachyderm will know the difference. Some of the bigger sizes are hard to find components for here in Canada! Just saying.

 

[ActionBob]

Bolt gun more practical for a client, absolutely yes. Especially if scoped. That accurate first shot is the important one. In the calibers you are talking about, they certainly suffice as a stopping cartridge and you will very likely have plenty of time to cycle the bolt for a second shot if needed. Of course a double as a backup is preferable as it gives two quick shots.... Provided the first was not spent on that first shot, so again for a client gun, most bolt action guns would have at least 3 shots loaded.

However, you cannot replace the nostalgic reality and romance of a double. So if you want a double, go that way and get in close for your first shot. Which on elephant (or rhino), should be how you do it anyway. And if you are prioritizing the hunting experience as your primary goal, getting in close on a buffalo with a double would have to rank right up at the top. Depending of course upon where you are hunting... The swamps with those huge herds where a longer shot may be required might be a place to preference a bolt gun.

As for calibers larger than a .400, I love my 505 Gibbs..... You can for sure can get 525 grain bullets, 570 grain and 600 grain. Components seem to be available, as well as factory ammo (although it can be close to $20/round).

CZ makes a beautiful gun in 505 at a reasonable cost.... So I'm sure you can build one on a BRNO 602 action. I think the real trick is getting enough metal out of the sides so those fat rounds stay in place as they feed from the box. And of course the stock needs to be well built and designed to fit you properly for recoil control.... Which is stout but controllable, really hard push if you hold onto the gun

The downfall of these as elephant guns, IMO, is the weight. If you are going on a hunt where you will likely be tracking 10 miles or more..... That is a heavy gun to tote around. A Winchester M70 in 470 Capstick might be much lighter.

 

[Pheroze]

A Winchester M70 in 470 Capstick might be much lighter.

Thanks for your analysis. I am very drawn to the idea of a 505 or 500 as a step up from the 400.

Question: Do you think the 470 adds noticeably to the impact over the 458s? Or are you really in the same league until you get to the 500s?

 

[ActionBob]

Thanks for your analysis. I am very drawn to the idea of a 505 or 500 as a step up from the 400.

Question: Do you think the 470 adds noticeably to the impact over the 458s? Or are you really in the same league until you get to the 500s?

IMO the short answer is really in the same league.

I have a 470 Capstick but have never shot it. It is the very high end Big 5 model of the M70 with the gold inlaid rhino on the floor plate, plus some other decor, fancy wood and a letter from Winchester's Custom Shop. It still has the factory grease in it... Not sure I'll ever shoot it Although I think I might have 4 boxes of ammo. What I should do is sell it and put the money towards a double I might shoot Not because I need a double to hunt with, but because a big double is one of the things I don't have, yet. And I'm sure I'll want one some day, and hopefully will not have any excuses left to not get one

That said, theoretically the 470 Capstick should be be inherently more accurate because of case design vs. the 458 Lott. But they both shoot a 500 grain bullet. I saw a comment made by a big bore enthusiast to an elephant hunter who shot an elephant in the heart, only putting a 1/2 groove in it and the elephant kept running until it charged some 13 hours later... The comment was to bore out the 458 to 470 so he had a wider diameter bullet next time as that might have made the difference I don't buy it that any shot at any animal will ever be replicated to the point that another .006 inch radius on a bullet would make any difference. IMO, from a practical hunting stand point, you will never notice any accuracy or real terminal difference between a 458 Lott and a 470 Capstick... However the Capstick is more rare and cooler

I believe you can get a 470 Ackley that shoots a 600 grain bullet. But why would you when you can go to a 500

I fell for the 505 Gibbs when I watch a video posted of several big bore guns being shot. I just loved the Kaclunk Chunk sound of the 505 being cycled Especially when it was run in slow motion. And it is fun to pull out a 505 cartridge when people at the range are talking up their 300 win mag

 

[Pheroze]

I really like the look of the 465 H&H but no one makes bullets in that caliber! It's a shame. 450 Ackley looks decent too and you can shoot Lott and Win Mag cartridges in it.....hmmm...but brass is a rare as hens teeth I bet!

 

[DmacD]

Pheroze,
I am located in Ontario as well. I have just begun to think that I too may wish to dip my toes into the custom rifle pool. Do you have any recommendations on a good gunsmith or two? Who is your go-to guy?

 

[Pheroze]

Pheroze,
I am located in Ontario as well. I have just begun to think that I too may wish to dip my toes into the custom rifle pool. Do you have any recommendations on a good gunsmith or two? Who is your go-to guy?

I am working with Chritian Lemieux of http://lemieuxarmuriers.com. they are a great crew. I know he has a great reputation. I would highly recommend discussing your project with him. They all studied their craft in Europe.

Some cautions: it takes longer than you want, and it is terribly addictive!

If you reload, being able to get one built in some ridiculous caliber is just pure whimsy, and how often can we indulge in that!

 

[Pheroze]

.....hmmmm. I imagined it to be, I dunno, bigger

 

[DmacD]

Thanks for the recommendation, I will take a look.

 

[Pheroze]

Thanks for the recommendation, I will take a look.

@Boyd Brooks had his 416 Taylor built by them, so he would he someone to chat with too.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

@DmacD I also live in Ontario and could not get any quality work done here. Christian and Paul at Lemieux do great work at reasonable prices. Quebec City is a very historic town and well worth the drive and a few days to look around. Like Pheroze said they are not the fastest but the finished product is worth the wait. The only other company that I know of in Canada that does good work is Corlane's in British Columbia. I had a project at Epp's for over a year and they did nothing. The same project moved to Grech Outdoors in Mount Forest for another year and when I went to pick up my rifle they blew the muzzle break off with the test fire. They forgot to ream out the break to 35cal and shot it off the barrel, oops! Christian also fixed this rifle for me as well, gap tested the barrel and installed the break and reinstalled the Timmny correctly. Christian has worked on and improved 3 of my rifles in the last couple of years.

 

[DmacD]

Thanks to you both. I keep hearing about and seeing some of the amateur work being done for top dollar and do not want to donate money to someone just so they can learn how to be a gunsmith. I have no problem waiting for a craftsman to deliver a quality job. I have a few ideas floating around in my head... maybe in the future.

 

[Pheroze]

Yes indeed the 500 Jeffery is an iconic cartridge and more than capable of giving you all the sleepless nights of planning the build that any project might do and of course all the excitment you could stand when you get to the testing and hunting of it.

The 500 J is very interesting, and that is a great video! But I am trying to decide if the step up over the 458 Lott is too much (weight and recoil wise). It's hard to really appreciate the difference here