What do guys consider the ideal weight for a .416?

[postoak]

I'm getting the DG rifle bug.

The last time I was in Africa, I shot my PHs .375 H&H off of sticks and felt the recoil was remarkably mild but forgot to ask the weight of his rifle. With that experience, I'm thinking more about a .416 of some kind. I handload, so I can download to a moderate level for practice, although I'm wondering if I can't accomplish most of my needed practice without ammo -- just dry firing off of sticks and off-hand.

I'm also thinking of going over without a scope on the rifle. Since this rifle would be for DG only, I imagine distances would be short, I hope. Do many clients show up with iron sights only?

In either case what is the ideal weight, in your opinion? I am talking bolt actions here.

What's the maximum spread in weight that you know of in available .416s?

 

[MBaugh]

My 416 Rem Mag Winchester model 70 with 4x Leupold compact scope weighs in around 11 pounds. Recoil is very manageable. Hand loaded 350 gr speer to practice and used 400 gr Swift A-Frames on Buffalo and Sable. Shoot nearly 300 rounds practicing and the more I shot the more I loved the rifle. Great set-up for me.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I would say 10-1/2 pounds is perfect bare rifle weight in a 416 Rigby. Not exactly sure what a ruger RSM weighs but I think it is ideal weight for caliber for a 416.

Cheers,
Cody

 

[postoak]

I've been checking specs. The Ruger Guide Gun weighs 8.1 pounds and the Ruger African weighs 7.8 pounds. I would have to scope those to get the weight up to about 9 pounds. The CZ550 American Safari Magnum weighs 9.38 pounds and the CZ550 Safari Magnum weighs 9.13 pounds. The last one, unscoped (and it is designed to not be scoped) sounds like it might be a little light. The Cz550 American Safari Magnum (designed to be scoped) looks like it would wind up being about 10 1/4 pounds.

I hadn't been considering the Model 70 but I just looked. Weight is listed as 9.0 pounds and scope and mounts (at least the scope I'm looking at) would raise that to about 10 pounds.

 

[IvW]

I'm getting the DG rifle bug.

The last time I was in Africa, I shot my PHs .375 H&H off of sticks and felt the recoil was remarkably mild but forgot to ask the weight of his rifle. With that experience, I'm thinking more about a .416 of some kind. I handload, so I can download to a moderate level for practice, although I'm wondering if I can't accomplish most of my needed practice without ammo -- just dry firing off of sticks and off-hand.

I'm also thinking of going over without a scope on the rifle. Since this rifle would be for DG only, I imagine distances would be short, I hope. Do many clients show up with iron sights only?

In either case what is the ideal weight, in your opinion? I am talking bolt actions here.

What's the maximum spread in weight that you know of in available .416s?

Please allow me to share my thoughts for a DG rifle for a first time DG client to Africa.

You mention the recoil before you have used the 416 Rigby.
The 416 Rigby is great but the 404 Jeff may be better especially for a client.

If recoil is a concern I would suggest you look at a 404 Jeff for the following reasons:

Recoil-
375 H&H recoil energy-37.3 and recoil velocity 16.3
404 Jeff recoil energy-41 and recoil velocity 16.1
416 Rigby recoil energy-58.1 and recoil velocity 19.3

That is a significant difference in felt recoil. You will shoot better with the lower recoiling 404. Don't get me wrong the 416 Rigby is great but is not for everyone.

The bonus is that on the front end the difference in performance on game is not distinguishable. They both kill with equal authority.

On the same action you can get one more round in the mag of the 404 Jeff.

Ideal weight would be between 10 and 10.5 pounds. Please bear in mind that proper stock fit and balance is more important than weight alone.

Dry firing is good practice for target shooters.
You will be much better off practicing with live ammo. This will at the same time sort out any issues you may encounter with your rifle before you get to Africa. Always start with a full magazine.

As for a scope, a client is always better off with a scope. The only clients who arrive with open sights only are the ones using double rifles. No large magnification needed. 1-6x24 would be ideal.
We all shoot better and more accurately with scopes. It will also allow you to take some shots that you would not be able to only with iron sights. A scope will make it much easier to place your first shot accurately. This first shot at any animal is the most important, make that count and you will not need any follow up or dangerous situations arising.

You can have the scope mounted with a QD system. After your initial shot you can then easily remove the scope and hand it to a tracker.

With iron sights only you will be limiting yourself too much.

I know open sights look cool but remember, PH's shoot with open sights all the time and they only use them at very close quarters and only when needed.

Try and shoot with a 404 Jeff and a 416 Rigby before you buy as this will make the decision a lot easier for you.

A good fitting, reliable 404 Jeff, fitted with a 1-6x24 scope on a qd system is in my opinion the ideal DG bolt action for a client.

Welcome to the "big bore" club and I hope you get your dream DG rifle.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello postoak,

I agree with what IvW and others have already said, especially that a low power scope is a good idea on a DG rifle and will increase your chances.

However I will add that your mention of loading a .416 down a bit is exactly what I do with mine.
Having my teeth loosened from recoil is not my idea of fun.
So, I load my .416 Rigby caliber down to "only" about the Pre-War specs of the old, original 404 Jeffery ammunition.
In other words, a 400 grain round nose bullet, at just a little over 2100 fps (23.6" barrel).

This requires a spacer over the powder in that huge case but, pressure is very low, recoil is not fierce and accuracy is shockingly quite good.
My rifle is based on the CZ 550 but tweaked by a Gunsmith to my liking.
It weighs pretty close to 11 pounds.

Would prefer a .404 but, after a couple years of searching, the most affordable one I could find was about 3 times the price of a standard Magnum CZ in .416 Rigby caliber.
I put another several hundred dollars into modifications so, now I have about half as much money into my .416 as the most affordable .404 I've ever found.
Still would like to own a .404 but, I'm not going to hold my breath until they're comparable in price to a pretty much similar rifle in .416 caliber.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[larry4831]

My 416 Ruger Hawkeye model 77 weighs in at 9 lbs. 2 oz. with a scope. Much, much too light. I wish it weighed another pound and a half.

 

[matt85]

best weight is around 10.5 pounds give or take a couple ounces.

cant remember exactly off the top of my head but i believe my Winchester M70 in 416 RM with a VX-6 1-6x24 scope on it weighs around 10.3 pounds empty and this rifle is very pleasant to shoot. the recoil is enough that you wont want to shoot it off a bench much but off the sticks its a sweet heart that can be shot for hours.

-matt

 

[CAustin]

I've been checking specs. The Ruger Guide Gun weighs 8.1 pounds and the Ruger African weighs 7.8 pounds. I would have to scope those to get the weight up to about 9 pounds. The CZ550 American Safari Magnum weighs 9.38 pounds and the CZ550 Safari Magnum weighs 9.13 pounds. The last one, unscoped (and it is designed to not be scoped) sounds like it might be a little light. The Cz550 American Safari Magnum (designed to be scoped) looks like it would wind up being about 10 1/4 pounds.

I hadn't been considering the Model 70 but I just looked. Weight is listed as 9.0 pounds and scope and mounts (at least the scope I'm looking at) would raise that to about 10 pounds.

I have the guide gun in 416 Ruger and have taken lion, buff, elephant, nyala, giraffe, and warthog with it. As you say it’s about 8 pounds and I have a VX 6 mounted on it. The recoil is not bad at all IMO. I can tell you I very much appreciated the weight chasing an elephant around for a day.

 

[Shootist43]

I know that the OP was asking about the ideal weight for bolt action rifles, my 416 Rigby is a Ruger No. 1. I purchased it from Tarbe, who had the foresight to add a Mercury Recoil Reducer to the stock. The rifle balances nicely and weighs a "svelte" 11.5 pounds. At this weight the recoil is very manageable. My reload is 92 Gr. of H 4350 pushing a 400 Gr. bullet. I haven't run it over a "chrony" yet but I am expecting something around 2400 FPS.

After purchasing the 416 Rigby mentioned above I purchased a CZ 550 404 Jeffery bolt action rifle. Now I have options for DG should I ever decide to hunt it.

 

[Red Leg]

Marc Newton at Rigby builds their big game rifle in .416 to target weight of 10 lbs 8 ounces. Traditionally, the .416 was built with a target weight of around 9.5 pounds and many of their bespoke rifles are built in that weight range.

 

[fourfive8]

Don't know really- "best" is kind of an individual preference. But I think mine are about right for me. Not too light-- seem to have enough recoil mitigation and not too heavy because they seem to be to point quickly and easily and I can haul them around all day. My 416 Rem Mag bolt gun with 4 rounds, scope and sling weighs 10 lbs 12 oz. My 450 Watts bolt gun with 4 rounds, scope and sling weighs 11 lbs 1 oz

 

[ChrisG]

I can tell you that if you don't want a .416 Weatherby or Rigby, going less than 10 lbs is doable. I have a .416 Ruger Hawkeye african. It weighed 7.8lbs out of the factory. I took about an ounce off of it when I removed the threads from the end of the barrel and recrowned it. Fully loaded (3 down and 1 in the pipe) with a leupold 1-4x on it it weighs in at right around 9lbs or maybe a bit more. It also has one of those "traditional" hard red buttplates on it. It is by no means uncomfortable to shoot off sticks or from field positions. It carries well and is fairly well balanced. Handloading is a must in my opinion, especially for bigger guns. I load the .416 to about 2,300 fps with a 400 grain bullet and 2,550fps with the 340-350 grain bullets. It works really well and you never notice the recoil in the field!

 

[postoak]

Very good information! So, definitely a scope then.

As for the .404 Jeffery. I can very easily load any .416 down to the 2150 fps of the .404, so that isn't a problem but I don't like the idea of having to do something to the Rigby to keep the powder against the primer. That makes the .416 Ruger looks especially attractive.

The Ruger Guide gun comes with a thick recoil pad (and boy am I a fan of those!), and adjustable LOP, both good features. At 8.1 pounds, it would come in with a scope at just around 9 pounds. One person said this is much too light, and another said it wasn't uncomfortable for him. The ace in the hole here is the muzzle brake. I hate brakes, but could use it only in practice and replace it with the metal sleeve provided for use in the field. I think that would be okay and with loads duplicating the .404, this seems like a good way to go. The lighter weight would be appreciated if I had to make a long walk for elephant, too, or do the trackers carry your rifle for you?

I've always wanted a Ruger #1, but the heaviness of them has always kept me away (along with the inaccuracy, which can be cured but at some cost and bother), but in this case the weight would be an advantage. But is a single shot a disadvantage when dangerous game hunting? It seems to me this is the one activity where you wouldn't want a single shot. I know John Taylor started out with a single shot against lions, but I'm no John Taylor.

 

[Shootist43]

Postoak, I'm curious, you mentioned that Ruger No. 1 (s) are inaccurate. Compared to what?

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to hear what Postoak has to say.

 

[postoak]

The Ruger #1 quickly developed a reputation for inaccuracy and no changes to the design have been made AFAIK. But we are talking about the desires of the typical American rifleman who expects 3 shot groups of 1 inch or so at 100 yards. If they shoot 3 inch groups, that would be okay for a dangerous game rifle, I guess. But I don't think I'd be happy with it. The cure for the inaccuracy is well known -- to place upward pressure on the barrel with a threaded screw installed in the fore-end hanger. Someone even makes a kit to do just that: https://www.eabco.com/HicksAccurizer1.html

 

[fourfive8]

Here's the 450- 11 lbs 1 oz (top) and 416- 10 lbs 12 oz (bottom). I guess I need a photo of the rifles and/or a dead
somethin-r-other when discussing best weight

The 450 normal hunting loads are 450-480 gr bullet at 2325-2350 mv. The 416 normal hunting loads are 370-400 gr bullet at 2300-2350 mv.

 

[1dirthawker]

postoak,

i would consider ivw's advise very seriously. he sees lots of hunters that use large rifles, relatively infrequently. i would think a PH's input to be most valuable.

i've read that 10 lbs is about right for a rifle of 416 caliber. if you DO choose a 416 over a .404, you could download the rifle to a 400 gr going 2250-2300 fps.

the 404 jeffrey seems to be making a bit of a come back, much like the 450-400. so, getting components should be getting easier.

i would also have a scope on it that would come off quickly. you can always take off if needed.

taylor had great things to say about the 404 (also the 450-400) but one thing he said is that he thought telescopic sights are one of the great innovations for effective shooting/hunting in africa.

good luck finding your rifle. don't be stingy if you can get super nice wood on it, you are only going to buy it/pay for it once, you will enjoy it every time you look at it and show your hunting buds.

 

[postoak]

I did take IvW's advice seriously and immediately decided a scope was necessary.

fourfive8 -- those are two beautiful rifles! They look like model 70s. (?)

 

[fourfive8]

The 450 on top is a MRC action with custom barrel and NOS New Haven Win M70 stock. The 416 on bottom is a 2005 New Haven Win M70.