Using rented/camp/ph's rifles

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Hogpatrol, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Considering ammo is expensive in Africa, do those that use a camp rifle sight in on a target before hunting or just take the owner's, lender's or PH's word that it's on?
     
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  2. Adrian

    Adrian AH Fanatic

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    I guess quite a few reload so ammunition works out cheaper and I think most hunters and PHs will want to shoot a few rounds prior to hunting to familiarise yourself with the rifle and also so you know where it's shooting.
    A camp rifle might not have been used for a few weeks if visiting hunters have brought their own guns so it might've been knocked in the downtime. It never hurts to shoot a few rounds to check before hunting.
     

  3. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Keying off of @Adrian's post. If using another's rifle, are you comfortable using someone else's reloads? Everyone's call but I NEVER shoot anyone else's reloads. They may have decades of reloading and shooting experience but a brain fart does happen.
     

  4. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    I have used PH’s guns on occasion. Have always checked trigger feel and sight in/shoot before using. Since reloading is uncommon in much of Africa- never run into using reloads in a borrowed gun. I would hesitate to use another’s reloads. When planning on using a PH or Outfitter gun, it is well in advance of trip so have checked about ammo/bullets. I would also hesitate to use questionable factory ammo/bullets in any case and simply would not for DG. I only want to blame myself for any preventable foul ups and not be in a position to blame anyone or anything else.
     
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  5. BSO Dave

    BSO Dave AH Veteran

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    I have used PH/guide rifles in Africa and Hawaii. I was given the opportunity to shoot as many practice rounds at a 100 yards as I wanted prior to the hunts. The outfitters were actually insistent on it. I would personally never consider using a borrowed rifle otherwise, and I would question any outfitter NOT allowing you to shoot some practice rounds prior to hunting...
     
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  6. IA diver

    IA diver SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    I have used PHs guns on prior occasions and always found these to be high quality Sako, Tikka or similar and very often suppressed which has made for a great experience. Ammunition provided has always been Hornady factory loads, maybe I have just been lucky. In all instances we went to the range to ensure function, zero and that way any errors are attributed to the hunter and not equipment. The last PH also informed me that this gave him the opportunity to size up the client s skill or lack thereof.
     
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  7. curtism1234

    curtism1234 AH Enthusiast

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    I would always check the zero. As others said, it could have knocked off. I would also make sure all the screws are tight, which may cause the rifle to go off zero a bit but it is worth doing.

    Also, some a rifle may be zeroed for someone else but maybe not for you - it happens on occasion. Maybe not a big deal inside 100 yards/meyers but can easily be a problem at 200.

    Imo, I don't like the idea of being charged per bullet when a zero session is mandated or "highly encouraged. If it is off zero, it could take 10-15 shots sometimes depending on the quality of optics. But it's not worth having a $20 argument 1 hour after you get there...
     

  8. Ryan

    Ryan AH Fanatic

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    My last hunt in RSA I used the PH's rifles. I checked the zero on the main rifle I used within an hour of hitting the lodge. It was good. But I didn't on his second rifle used for duiker later. Thankfully that worked out.
     

  9. cls

    cls AH Elite

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    Always check the zero on a loaner whether it is Africa or home not all people shoot to the same zero for multitude of reasons. I may be full of it but I think a lot of PH's want you to shoot not only for you to check the zero but they want to see how "you" shoot as well.
     
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  10. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    only used a PH rifle once.. but definitely went to the range and confirmed zero.. and made sure he was comfortable that I could safely and accurately operate the weapon before we took it to the field..
     

  11. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Biggest problem comes when the rifle does not fit you.....or has a German post(which I like) and a client has never seen such a reticle and cannot get use to it...
     
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  12. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    According to friends who went on African Cape Buffalo Safaris recently ( 2017 ) , you always practice a bit at camp with the PH's rifles before going forward. A wise thing to do too. You should ALWAYS familiarize yourself with the weapon you will use for hunting , before the hunt. And especially the Ammunition . Often , if the rifle is a .458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM , you have the gun loaded with Hornady DGS ( which l dislike with a passion ! )
    When my Father in law went on his Safari , he brought along a .30-06 Remington Model 700 for plains game. He rented out a .470 NE Double from his Safari Outfitters and tried it out in camp before going after his Elephant. Of course , this was in the '60s. But I doubt this would change , considering how sensible it is.
     

  13. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Always sight in no matter what!
     
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  14. cpr0312

    cpr0312 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I have used the PH's rifles in the past and always sighted in!
     

  15. Art Lambart II

    Art Lambart II AH Fanatic

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    If you draw blood its your animal, always check your zero. Whats more expensive 5-10 rounds of ammo or a wounded and lost Kudu?
     
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  16. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Always check the zero of any rifle prior to a hunt. When using the outfitter's or a PH's rifle make sure all of the ammo is the same. On my first safari my guns were delivered three days into the hunt. My PH loaned me his rifle. Of the first six cartridges he gave me to confirm the zero, no two were alike. All were "gifts" from previous clients that had some left overs.
     
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  17. Adrian

    Adrian AH Fanatic

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    You make a good point and due diligence is needed.
    If the PH loads his own ammunition for his clients then I don't have a problem.
    In fact I would rather have a handful of homeloads from him because he is proficient at loading than a handful of various factory made ammunition of different brands and bullet weights.

    If he gives me home loads that Bubba from the back woods left behind using homemade gunpowder and bullets cast from Mrs Bubba's saucepans then I would not be using them.
     
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  18. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Fanatic

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    In my experience, yes. In two safaris. Rifle tested at range.
     

  19. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    I wouldn't even consider shooting at anything living with a rifle I hadn't tried for myself on a target first. I have a number of shooting friends and although some of us can rifle share, others cannot. The chap I usually shoot foxes with is much taller than me and I need to aim about 4" off when shooting his gun to hit what I'm aiming at. He's a good shot as am I, but I guess we must have a different trigger technique, cheek weld or something? I don't know, but we can only share a gun because we know from experience how it will shoot.

    When paying $10,000 for a buff and another $1000+ for flights what's $20 or even $200 in ammo to make sure that rifle is hitting exactly where I think it is? If you wound your trophy because of that and either lose it or get tossed, you'll wish you spent the money on the ammo. I wouldn't risk it, no way! The only time I'd have a go is if I was in a bad situation and had to pick up another man's gun and do my best with it, but then I wouldn't have any choice.
     
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  20. Troubleshooter

    Troubleshooter New Member

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    As others have stated, check the zero. An example from last year’s hunt: Not long after arriving in camp, the outfitter gave me a choice of three rifles to borrow. His Savage in .30-06 fit me perfectly and was topped with good glass, so the guide and I drove to the range to verify zero. First shot missed the target completely. Maybe I was just tired and shaky from the long airplane ride and several hours’ drive? But the second shot missed too.

    I handed the rifle off to the guide, who also missed the target. He called back to the outfitter and they discussed the situation. What was I shooting – the ammo was still there at the lodge? Daylight was fading when the outfitter arrived with a fresh box of ammunition. Each of us was suddenly shooting dead-on. It soon became apparent that the guide had grabbed the wrong box of ammo (different bullet weight and perhaps different manufacturer) rather than the ammo for which the rifle had been sighted-in.

    So yeah, definitely check the zero on that loaner rifle before you take it out on the hunt.
     
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