Thoughts on type of camps

Arrrrgggh, how can I unsee this?!
Kevin you are going to have @Just Gina in full agreement. She hates blue.... childhood trauma, or is it drama? Anyway her mother apparently had EVERYTHING painted blue!
 
Hello Lex, thank you for this opportunity to feed back. To me and my group the ambiance of the camp is by far the most important. Without writing an essay here are the criteria. I would pay over the odds for this, not less:
1 Tents, comfy bed, crisp sheets, mozzie killer.
2. En-suite shower and loo
3. Hangup for shirts and open shelves for clothes
4. Far in the bush, no human noise, no light.
5. Perpetual fire
6. Wooden and canvas camp chairs, no metal
7. No blue anywhere, or plastic
8. White or cream crockery, no colours
9. Interesting snacks with pre-dinner drinks around the fire like nyimos, boiled peanuts, fried kapenta, impala balls, etc
10 . Good food. Real coffee.
11. Paraffin lights everywhere.
12. Thatched central area.
13. Piping hot water for shower.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions or PM me for price tolerance etc.
Regards,
Kevin
Agreed on the points above Kevin and here is a couple more
Comfortable canvas camp chairs im seeing padded directors canvas chairs these days
The tents must be real natural canvas that smells like African canvas..it exists
No LED WHITE LIGHTS please warm lighting if any other than parafin
A sand pitted area around the fire pit not paving or dirt or lawn.
For those hunting some proper old world rifle stands wooden.
Coffee is of extreme importance, proper percolated tasty coffee.
Tents should be roomy with flymesh windows and views important.
Staff must be taught to speak in low dulcet tones not raucous high pitched loudness.
I prefer sand walkways to decked.
Nothing worse than hot climate tents in full sun so when building be aware.
Central gathering area usually around the fire pit needs to have a view worth having and not in a place where all and sundry can stare at guests, discreet setting.
Africa is special so don't bring every mod con to the camp the guests must feel the true nature of wild Africa. The best TV is BUSH TV
Hope this helps all best RIVERMAN
 
Kevin you are going to have @Just Gina in full agreement. She hates blue.... childhood trauma, or is it drama? Anyway her mother apparently had EVERYTHING painted blue!
Yes. My eyes are permanently blue because of it :E Laugh:
Seriously though. Do NOT like blue.
 
Agreed on the points above Kevin and here is a couple more
Comfortable canvas camp chairs im seeing padded directors canvas chairs these days
The tents must be real natural canvas that smells like African canvas..it exists
No LED WHITE LIGHTS please warm lighting if any other than parafin
A sand pitted area around the fire pit not paving or dirt or lawn.
For those hunting some proper old world rifle stands wooden.
Coffee is of extreme importance, proper percolated tasty coffee.
Tents should be roomy with flymesh windows and views important.
Staff must be taught to speak in low dulcet tones not raucous high pitched loudness.
I prefer sand walkways to decked.
Nothing worse than hot climate tents in full sun so when building be aware.
Central gathering area usually around the fire pit needs to have a view worth having and not in a place where all and sundry can stare at guests, discreet setting.
Africa is special so don't bring every mod con to the camp the guests must feel the true nature of wild Africa. The best TV is BUSH TV
Hope this helps all best RIVERMAN
Yes man, I forgot the cold white lights, makes you feel like you are at the dentist's.
Few camps have teak and canvas chairs, so we take our own. And even fewer have a rifle stand, so we take that too!
 
I wonder whether some of this discussion is related to the fact that in North America, hunting is a pastime enjoyed by people across the income spectrum, whereas in many other parts of the world, hunting is a wealthy person’s pastime. Because PHs serve an international clientele, naturally they would want to provide an experience meeting their clients’ expectations, whereas my expectations for a four-day hunt look more like this:
A0FAA1AF-3EB3-4F5E-9098-427456B28C8A.jpeg

No hot food, no place settings or cutlery, no laundry, “baths” using wet wipes, etc. I do bring a cot for the tent, extra clothes and several gallons of drinking water in the Jeep. Don’t even ask about toilet facilities.
 
I probably bring history and literature into responses too often, but they tend to be useful in explaining things. We can thank the British East African safari experience of the decades before and shortly after WWII for the typical tented safari experience one finds in South Africa and some areas of Namibia. Whether carried by a battalion of porters, are more typically a 2 1/2 ton lorry, the East African Safari Camp was as comfortable as could be created in a wilderness environment - the sort of standards listed in @Kevin Peacocke ’s post. That type of safari experience was portrayed to one degree or another in every book and movie about hunting Africa for the better part of four generations. When hunters dreamed of Africa, those camps were part of those dreams.

If we flash forward a hundred years to modern South Africa, many outfitters offer a modern replica of that traditional environment. This is a contrived setting in which most clients willingly and happily set aside reality and participate, Rather than a canvas tub and river water, one has ensuite bathroom with hot and cold running water and flush toilets. Rather than a meal served under a canvas awning by lantern or candle light, it is typically in a central open thatched pavilion with electric lighting and likely a bar. And let's not forget the absolute necessity of wifi. It is a little bit of make believe to capture the spirit of safari and the early twentieth century.

To the OP considering bringing his back back tent into such an environment, that would be no more “real” than the permanent tented camp. You would be sleeping in the “bush” in locations easily reached by vehicle from the main lodge or camp on a day hunt. To my mind this is another replication of a wilderness experience - this time a North American one. A parallel would be to book a hunt on Jeff Rand’s 777 in Texas and ask to pitch a pup tent in a back pasture.

To be fair, outfitters have offered backpack hunts into some areas of Namibia for mountain zebra and oryx. Someone may be doing that now. However, I would think of this as a fairly specialized hunt for specific species or two.

The next choice are the semi-permanent camps in places like the Caprivi, much of Zim, parts of Zambia and Mozambique, and the areas of West Africa where bongo and LDE roam. All will be off the electric grid and many will be established only annually due to flooding, rains, whatever. These camps are typically found in dangerous game country so one can often fall asleep to the sounds of hippo or a moaning lion. Temporary tents, often over a permanent slab or huts are typical accommodations. The shower will be a separate shielded area and there will be little doubt that you are not on a game ranch. These settings and hunting environments can often give the client real glimpses of hunting with Hemingway in the thirties or Ruark in the fifties.

For instance, this photo of our crew packing a couple of buffalo several miles out of the Zambezi Delta swamp could have been taken before 1954 as easily as 2014.

And bring a satphone.
buff 3.jpg

Last are what I would term the semi-temporary camps found in the hunting concessions of Tanzania on multi-week safaris. A full bag hunt will require movement to multiple locations where the party typically will fall in on a partial camp infrastructure, bringing the rest from the last location. These hunts are the closest to those experienced by clients in the first half of the last century.

Generally, as the content of wilderness reality increases, so do costs. Unlike the South African lodge or permanent tented camp portrayal which represent initial sunk costs, the typical off grid concession owner, is absorbing substantial annual costs to replicate his offering each year. Because many of these concessions carry dangerous game, they tend to represent a premium investment in lease costs as well. Food, power, access - essentially everything is more difficult to obtain and provide. All add to overhead costs.

I think South Africa is a great place to go for a first safari. The comfortable tent "camp" environment or lodge is perfect for a first exposure or for non-hunting spouses and families. One can fill a trophy room or den on a first trip. Many sponsors here can offer exactly that experience.

However, I expect that you will find like many of us have, as Africa works its way deep into our souls, shopping for a satphone is just around the corner.
 
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Thanks for the info. These are things I’m not aware of. All I’m familiar with is how pricing is structured over here in the states. For example, estimates of different options to hunt moose in AK
Guided with upper end camp: 30K
Guided with their tent and gear: 20k
Unguided drop with gear provided: 10K
Unguided provide your own gear: 7k
The less service provided the cheaper the price. Seems reasonable to me. I’m learning that’s not quite how things work in Africa. It’s strange to me but it’s got it’s reasons and I’m not out to change it. Like I said, I’m here to learn.

But I’m certain that’s what keeps guys like me from trying africa. They think half their money is going to fancy stuff and service they don’t want.

I live in Alaska, so I don't have to worry about costs like those, but your prices certainly sound in line with our part of the state.

That said, when I think about what I paid for my hunt - the accommodations, the food, the service and friendship of the PH and his family, AND ten animals? I'm not sure I get how they are making anything on it. It felt like then and still feels like now, almost 2 years later, a huge freaking bargain. It never crossed my mind that my money was going to fancy stuff or unnecessary services. Would I like to have an authentic wilderness African experience? Absolutely. (especially with shows like 1923 stoking that a bit) I will probably never be able to afford that though. For someone wanting to experience Africa, it sure seems like now's the time: there is something for EVERY budget.
 
Yes man, I forgot the cold white lights, makes you feel like you are at the dentist's.
Few camps have teak and canvas chairs, so we take our own. And even fewer have a rifle stand, so we take that too!
Love the fine, classy old school approach Kevin;)

And love it that you are in it for the experience rather than the kill:)
 
This may have been mentioned, get in the habit of keeping your duffle bag zipped. This will cut down on surprises. At night set your shoes on a shelf, do not leave them on floor and shake them upside down in morning. Once upon a time in Zambia i was staying in a round reed hut and at night an enormous centipede came lurching across the floor. The next morning my PH commented I should have thrown my shoe at the creature. I was afraid the grotesque bug would throw my shoe back at me!
 
Man I’m glad I’m not the outfitter trying to please one guy that’ll drink his own pee then the other guy that’s complaining about the color of the lights! To each their own and best of luck to you outfitters….
 
Man I’m glad I’m not the outfitter trying to please one guy that’ll drink his own pee then the other guy that’s complaining about the color of the lights! To each their own and best of luck to you outfitters….
I think you now understand an African PH outfitter's dilemma. With a little searching one can find accommodations from cement floored tents, 2 to 3 star chalets, to even 5-star places where one can get a massage. Their accommodations must for business, appeal to the largest group of potential hunters.

I recently read their are 10,000 hunting ranches in South Africa. How's that for competition!

Then there are those outfitters who have concessions on a hundred or more thousand acres who can provide more old fashion temporary tent camps. Those of course will cost more than the former due to operating costs. To each his own on the hunt they desire. One is only governed by how much they are willing to spend.
 
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The reed huts used in old Zambia hunting days were a safe harbor for mice and rats living in the thatch and reeds. These in turn attracted snakes looking for a bite to eat. Rustling in the walls and roofs took getting used to. Once, i left my hearing aids in an ash tray next to my bed and the next morning one aid was gone and replaced by a palm kernel. A pack rat had absconded with my hearing aid. My PH indicated the camp help had lots of patience and with a proper reward just might find my hearing aid. We gathered the staff and announced a twent dollar bill to the finder, that was big bucks fifty years ago. Returning to camp that night, lo and behold they had found it!. It was in a rats nest in the hut wall, along with a cobra. What great times and tales.
 
The reed huts used in old Zambia hunting days were a safe harbor for mice and rats living in the thatch and reeds. These in turn attracted snakes looking for a bite to eat. Rustling in the walls and roofs took getting used to. Once, i left my hearing aids in an ash tray next to my bed and the next morning one aid was gone and replaced by a palm kernel. A pack rat had absconded with my hearing aid. My PH indicated the camp help had lots of patience and with a proper reward just might find my hearing aid. We gathered the staff and announced a twent dollar bill to the finder, that was big bucks fifty years ago. Returning to camp that night, lo and behold they had found it!. It was in a rats nest in the hut wall, along with a cobra. What great times and tales.
I sure do hope you keep posting more all the time;) You have got THE BEST stories:)
 

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Because of some clients having to move their dates I have 2 prime time slots open if anyone is interested to do a hunt
5-15 May
or 5-15 June is open!
shoot me a message for a good deal!
dogcat1 wrote on skydiver386's profile.
I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
Thanks,
Ross
Francois R wrote on Lance Hopper's profile.
Hi Lance hope you well. The 10.75 x 68 did you purchase it in the end ? if so are you prepared to part with it ? rgs Francois
 
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