Thought Provoking Question : How Many Of You Would Use A Smaller Calibre If It Were Legal?

IvW

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I suggest that the 460 Weatherby with a 500 grain bullet in the Weatherby Mark v rifle would have recoil at around 100-105.
I’ve had the 460 whack me a few times - leaning under a tree to fire.
I’ve never had such an instant and painful headache in my life as I had from the whack.
In actual fact the recoil allowed the one cartridge in the magazine to fall out on the ground.
That’s recoil for you!

Piece of sh*t as a DG rifle and cartridge.....
 

Forrest Halley

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I don't know what you mean.
Rum brass is hens teeth around me. I can get .375 locally and I can get .458WM without any great travel. Rum brass not so. Ammunition can be had for a small ransom, but lacking the rifle, I'm out.
 

Tanks

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Piece of sh*t as a DG rifle and cartridge.....

Come on, tell us how you really feel. :LOL:

With the type of recoil etc. that rifle provides I'd go for a larger caliber, use a much heavier bullet going slower to get similar muzzle energy.

Not that it is really needed. At some point one starts hitting the point of diminishing returns.
 

Tanks

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Rum brass is hens teeth around me. I can get .375 locally and I can get .458WM without any great travel. Rum brass not so. Ammunition can be had for a small ransom, but lacking the rifle, I'm out.

Well, considering you have to cut, form and trim the RUM brass anyway mail ordering is not a problem. It is not a spur of the moment project. Once done you would have enough brass for a long time.

I live in Southern CA. I can't get brass or even ammo for large bores from anyone within a 100 miles. Have to mail order everything anyway from powders, to primers to brass and bullets.
 

Standard Velocity

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My .458 wildcat has an 18" barrel, .416 and .500 have 20" barrels. But same ballistics of a comparable caliber of 24" barrel :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Tanks,

Can you give me the Cliffs Notes version of how these wildcats you use work? Is it wide powder column, steep shoulder and high pressure that allows them to perform so well? Are you getting comparable velocities to other big bores with heavy bullets?
 

Tanks

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Tanks,

Can you give me the Cliffs Notes version of how these wildcats you use work? Is it wide powder column, steep shoulder and high pressure that allows them to perform so well? Are you getting comparable velocities to other big bores with heavy bullets?

The main information on these cartridges are here.
https://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/About-Us.html

You can go to individual caliber pages for more info about each caliber and load data. Cutting Edge Safari bullets were designed initially for these cartridges and optimized after years of tests.

I am getting comparable performance.

In .500 MDM it pushes a 500 grain bullet at 2,350 fps out of a 20" barrel. 335 grain hollow point at 2,950 fps. In .458 B&M (18" barrel) I am getting 2,250 fps for 450 grain solid and 2,270 fps out of 420 grain hollow point at same POA, POI. The 258 grain tipped hollow point goes at 2,850 fps, devastating for PG.
 

318AE

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I interpreted the original question a little differently. I think the legal minimum for Tanzania is strictly a caliber specification - .375. I think a 45/70 would be legal in Tanzania, likely “work” for buffalo, but I wouldn’t recommend it. It doesn’t usually have the sectional density and velocity for the often required second shot with poor available angles. A 300 grain 333 Jeff to a 275 grain 358 would likely do well. The big bores are fun- they are no replacement for placement.
 

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The big bores are fun- they are no replacement for placement.

And placement is no replacement for caliber either especially when shooting solids. You have to have placement AND have enough gun. What the bigger bore will do is save you on near misses. A .500 NE (or equivalent) on a near miss frontal brain shot will stun the elephant for minutes, a .358 will just get you stomped on before you work that bolt for a second shot per John Taylor.
 

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Ah! this is good stuff! excellent discussion.

More so because I'm dead set on getting a CZ .375 H&H.

I have shot the .375 and find the recoil to be very manageable, in fact to put it simply, I like it a lot!, ironically, I have a 30.06 that i have loaded with 220gr PMP's, I have loaded it with lighter bullets, more powder, less powder, and I absolutely HATE it, I have never shot well with it at all, I'm sure as a hunting rifle it would perform very well with those 220gr PMP's, but just not in my hands. I think the recoil to rifle weight ratio is what bothers me about this 30.06, anyway, at this point I'm bloody minded beyond all repair and I mean to sell to promptly!

On the other hand, my 6.5 Laupa is, in my humble opinion a very effective and accurate rifle. I have supreme confidence in this rifle, I would wager that I could easily put down most plains game with it, key factor being shot placement, but I still would not try it on DG for any amount of money.

Without going too far off topic, I must admit, I'm talking more from a shooting perspective than from a hunting perspective., but i think the fit of the rifle to the shooter and the fit of the caliber to the quarry are equal parts of the equation. It is my opinion that a lighter caliber can be very effective up to a point, and this can be stretched quite far i think, however, if for whatever reason that shot was not so 'well placed', one could be in for a very long and frustrating walk at best, or a lost and wounded animal at worst, or in the case of dangerous game, a very short and exciting life with the promise of soiled underpants at the end.

I guess it comes down to the age old question of the right tool for the right job, can one do it with a smaller caliber, but also, should one do it with a smaller caliber?

Depending on what I was hunting, I personally would much rather shoot the heaviest caliber that i can manage confidently than shoot a lighter caliber.

In other words, I want that .375 in my life!!
 

Forrest Halley

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Ah! this is good stuff! excellent discussion.

More so because I'm dead set on getting a CZ .375 H&H.

I have shot the .375 and find the recoil to be very manageable, in fact to put it simply, I like it a lot!, ironically, I have a 30.06 that i have loaded with 220gr PMP's, I have loaded it with lighter bullets, more powder, less powder, and I absolutely HATE it, I have never shot well with it at all, I'm sure as a hunting rifle it would perform very well with those 220gr PMP's, but just not in my hands. I think the recoil to rifle weight ratio is what bothers me about this 30.06, anyway, at this point I'm bloody minded beyond all repair and I mean to sell to promptly!

On the other hand, my 6.5 Laupa is, in my humble opinion a very effective and accurate rifle. I have supreme confidence in this rifle, I would wager that I could easily put down most plains game with it, key factor being shot placement, but I still would not try it on DG for any amount of money.

Without going too far off topic, I must admit, I'm talking more from a shooting perspective than from a hunting perspective., but i think the fit of the rifle to the shooter and the fit of the caliber to the quarry are equal parts of the equation. It is my opinion that a lighter caliber can be very effective up to a point, and this can be stretched quite far i think, however, if for whatever reason that shot was not so 'well placed', one could be in for a very long and frustrating walk at best, or a lost and wounded animal at worst, or in the case of dangerous game, a very short and exciting life with the promise of soiled underpants at the end.

I guess it comes down to the age old question of the right tool for the right job, can one do it with a smaller caliber, but also, should one do it with a smaller caliber?

Depending on what I was hunting, I personally would much rather shoot the heaviest caliber that i can manage confidently than shoot a lighter caliber.

In other words, I want that .375 in my life!!

Without going too far off topic, if you're selling your .30-06 because it recoils too much and you lack the patience to get it to shoot well, you're in for a rude awakening when you get to the .375. The components cost more, it recoils more and there are less available loads. Do update us on your progress.
 

ConradG

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Without going too far off topic, if you're selling your .30-06 because it recoils too much and you lack the patience to get it to shoot well, you're in for a rude awakening when you get to the .375. The components cost more, it recoils more and there are less available loads. Do update us on your progress.
I get your point, but I'm selling it for a few reasons, yes i simply have never shot well with it, could be that I have been spoilt by target shooting with heavier barrels, or the stock is a touch too long for me, but really I simply just don't like it.

The .375 I tested on the other hand, I liked the balance and weight, it fit and I felt comfortable with it and possibly as a result of that I shot well with it.

Which was really my point, there is nothing wrong with the gun per se, hence my disclaimer of talking more from a shooting perspective than from a hunting perspective, I can easily shoot 1.5 inch 3 shot group at 100m with my 30.06 but I would rather have a gun that I'm confident and capable with in the field than a gun that may shoot well, but is really not that great in my hands.
 

Forrest Halley

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I get your point, but I'm selling it for a few reasons, yes i simply have never shot well with it, could be that I have been spoilt by target shooting with heavier barrels, or the stock is a touch too long for me, but really I simply just don't like it.

The .375 I tested on the other hand, I liked the balance and weight, it fit and I felt comfortable with it and possibly as a result of that I shot well with it.

Which was really my point, there is nothing wrong with the gun per se, hence my disclaimer of talking more from a shooting perspective than from a hunting perspective, I can easily shoot 1.5 inch 3 shot group at 100m with my 30.06 but I would rather have a gun that I'm confident and capable with in the field than a gun that may shoot well, but is really not that great in my hands.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 1.5" group at 100m! That rifle will feed you all year long!

We've gotten so spoilt with the new target rifles.

I have three .375's that range in elegance and practicality. I much fancy my preadventured Ruger No.1 as even in its worn condition it shoots and I have no hesitation about taking it out. Good luck with your search and rescue of a lonely .375 somewhere.
 

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krish

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Since you asked. A 22 will take any game there is. If shot in the right place. Can you guarentee that shot to your self. Like John Pondora Taylor said killing and stopping a charge are two different things. What is the point in getting killing the animal after you are dead. Hunting is a sport not a SUICIDE MISSION. IN MHO.
 

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I would gladly hunt dangerous game with my 9.3x52 ruger Hawkeye African! My dream is to one day hunt cape buffalo with it
 

IvW

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I would gladly hunt dangerous game with my 9.3x52 ruger Hawkeye African! My dream is to one day hunt cape buffalo with it

Never heard of that....what speed does it get with a 286gr bullet?
 

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