The ethics discussion of hunting...

MMAL

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I really like to do two things with people that are anti-hunting.

1) mention Kenya. A country that banned hunting in 1978. Since then they have lost over 70% of there wildlife population and now the only place wildlife exists is in the national parks. I then set them up:

2) imagine you are the chief of a community. What would you do if your area was not a good place for photo tourism and you needed to feed and obtain money for the community. I lead the person down the path of eventually what happened in Kenya. All the animals were killed and replaced with beef or goats. A product they can eat and/or sell.

I end with asking them if a you really believe that people that make 100 a year are going to worry about wildlife? Not unless you give them a Monetary reason.
 

Shootist43

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To me one of the clearest reasons promoting sport hunting is the experience learned from the Kiabab Range in Arizona. See the attached link for a place to start your research on the lessons learned over the past hundred odd years or so. The Lesson of the Kaibab (biologycorner.com)
 

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sgt_zim

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I remember recently reading reviews for photographic safaris in the Selous. Some of the complaints were completely ridiculous. Complaints about mosquitos and tsetse flies and people angry that the animals would *GASP* run away from a vehicle if it got too close. Yes, the animals are wild. What exactly did you expect? They're not zoo animals, most of them have probably never seen people before considering how huge the reserve is. They're either going to freeze and wonder what this strange-looking, two-legged ape is doing there and whether or not it wants to eat them. Or they're going to flee. The Elephants have developed a fear for humans due to the rampant poaching that happened over the past few decades. Luckily, the predator populations have sky-rocketed recently so people are going to see plenty of those.
The ignorance of those people is utterly astounding, and they so often feel themselves to be smart and well-educated. I could never be a guide for photo safari because I just couldn't deal with the stupidity of many of the people who go on them. Even if most people aren't that idiotic, just a handful of the morons would drive me insane. Just no patience for that. At. All.
 

375Fox

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Personally, I don't care what people call it whether it be a sport or just a hobby. I just enjoy it, and I don't need to give any other explanation. However, the world and specifically the West has become obsessed with controlling every aspect of peoples' lives so not giving an explanation is frowned upon. Even if you do give a thorough and understandable explanation people will just shrug it off as being "not good enough." These people are not looking to change their minds, they already know what they believe in and are just looking to (pardon my French) stir shit. I do however agree with 375Fox in that we need to focus on the conservation aspect. If hunting wasn't sustainable, I wouldn't do it. Plain and simple.

There's also a lot of infighting in the hunting community, especially when it concerns free-range hunting and high-fence hunting. Personally, I don't have a problem with high-fence hunting but I still prefer free-range. Many famous hunters like Joe Rogan, though his intention may be pure, is doing a disservice to not only hunting in Africa but the world in general. For some reason, he thinks all hunting in Africa is either high-fence or in a small paddock. Totally disregarding the enormous free-roaming areas throughout the continent, most of which are several times larger than what you'd find in Europe and North America except for Alaska.
When I typed my answer, I was hesitant to type Steve Rinella/MeatEater because for all the positive I think he does for regular hunting in the United States I think the focus on meat really takes away from the conservation message and hunting elsewhere in the world. Joe Rogan is the same to me with the focus being on meat. It’s surprising to me that there is very little opposition to meat hunting but so much to trophy hunting even though the meat is used the same and mature animals are actually targeted rather than everything. I don’t think local hunting is at risk but I think the conservation message is important to protect international hunting and ability to bring trophies home.
 

375Fox

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Personally, I don't lecture on justification. I just hand them a pack of game meat, jerky, 50/50 bacon or a container of venison burger chili. Converted more than a few to the hunting ethos. Just this year, gave a whitetail doe to a couple Biden voters up the street. At least I'm keeping them on hunting's plus side. :)
I like the simplicity of your strategy. Have any of these people you gave meat to asked you about hunting in Africa? I’ve never really seen any resistance to local hunting where I live but I’m always surprised how many disagree with international hunting because it’s viewed as just trophy hunting.
 

BigSteve57

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White tourists tried to harass me when I pulled out my double rifle for customs at an african airport...anyone experienced likewise..?
Almost...I think.
My wife and I were standing in line for our flight to SA at Dulles airport in Virginia with our rifle cases. Some guy in line for the same flight with what I think was a SA or German accent steps slightly out of line and calls out to us. He says "Hey you're not going after any Black Rhinos are you". Me: "Nope. Already have 5 of the regular and black." He looked genuinely angry after that response.

The truth is I've never even seen a rhino in the wild much less hunted or taken one. I also don't have any idea if they would have been even legal to hunt at the time. The question just bugged me.
 

Thumper Mcgee

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White tourists tried to harass me when I pulled out my double rifle for customs at an african airport...anyone experienced likewise..?
It's always the urban non native whites that have a problem with hunting, they live in an ivory tower were they all think animals dance and laugh and sing in the woods, and they let their emotions get in front of reality. Meanwhile they never have even bother to look into were their money and conservation dollars are going too
 

Thumper Mcgee

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I like the simplicity of your strategy. Have any of these people you gave meat to asked you about hunting in Africa? I’ve never really seen any resistance to local hunting where I live but I’m always surprised how many disagree with international hunting because it’s viewed as just trophy hunting.
Yeah I think one of the reasons trophy hunting is so shunned upon is because of misinformation, in most arguments I've gotten into, im surprised as to how little people actually know, and are generally easily convinced it's not as evil as the media makes it out to be
 
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Hogpatrol

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I like the simplicity of your strategy. Have any of these people you gave meat to asked you about hunting in Africa? I’ve never really seen any resistance to local hunting where I live but I’m always surprised how many disagree with international hunting because it’s viewed as just trophy hunting.
When asked, I tell them there's not a lot of employment opportunities in these venues' areas. I start rattling off all of the jobs that hunting provides and without the industry tens of thousands of more people would be unemployed and living in poverty. I mention the camp personnel, cooks, cleaning people, trackers, skinner/butchers and guides. Explain how the meat is used by them, local villages or sold in the market. Then move on to people employed in transportation, lodging, restaurants, taxidermy, and how we visit tourist sites, buy clothing and shop for handmade items to bring home, (more jobs). I think if it's understood that people in these countries are doing the same thing as Americans, trying to make a buck with what they have and are just trying to take care of their families, trophy hunting makes more sense.
 

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The ignorance of those people is utterly astounding, and they so often feel themselves to be smart and well-educated. I could never be a guide for photo safari because I just couldn't deal with the stupidity of many of the people who go on them. Even if most people aren't that idiotic, just a handful of the morons would drive me insane. Just no patience for that. At. All.
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Thought I'd share a few of these gems. ;)
 
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Kevin Peacocke

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There will always be the anti's. The solution is to make sure there will always be hunters.
 

sgt_zim

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Pheroze

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BigSteve57

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I don't hear too much directly about anti-hunting as I tend to surround myself with people who are shooters, hunters or those who generally agree with me. That includes family. I decided life's too short to do otherwise.

But what I've noticed when there is no alternative is a distinct pattern of thought & reasoning by a good percentage of people who object to so called trophy hunting in particular. The objection is they think that what we do is shoot the animal, take the head, and then leave the rest to lay and rot.

They are generally surprised to hear that the meat cannot legally be brought into the USA and that if I wanted the meat of the animals I too I would have to buy it from the landowner. They seem genuinely shocked to hear that the meat is so highly prized.

So somehow we've been conflated with poachers.

I haven't changed many minds of those that just hate all hunting but I do think I have given pause to a number of those that have an issue with trophy hunting. The common response is usually somethihng like: "Oh! Well that's not so bad".

I have also referred those to this video:
How the ban on lion hunting killed the lions: Mikkel Legarth at TEDxCopenhagen
 

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