Double rifles and Elephant

[50Gunner]

Am sort of conflicted here, have a beautiful Holland Royal 500-450 Nitro with 26" barrels that swings like a bird gun, have also worked up a beautifully regulating load with 450gr Northfork flat nosed solids at 2210 fps over H-4831, the rifle is a spitting image of TR's rifle he used on the Smithsonian year long Safari, it's also just a couple serial numbers off his rifle.
The other choice is a mighty V\C boxlock 577 Nitro, also with 26" barrels, it's load with the 750gr Barnes banded flat nosed solid at 2076 fps over H-4350 needs no explanation, it is also very accurate.

With Ele, Lion and any other excellent representative of a plains game species will be on the list, the plains game, bait and cat rifle will be a beautiful Winston Elrod built 458 WM, he built it on a 1950 year model Winchester 70 375 H&H length action because he recognized the built in SAAMI throat length of the great 458 WM will let you load rounds to 3.585 inches.
It's loads are the 404gr Hammer bullet along with the excellent 400gr CEB #13 flat nosed solid, both loads clock 2600 fps.
The 404gr Hammer is already proven by me on Buffalo down to Impala, 20 to near 200 yards, longest animal travel after the shot was a 44" beautiful blue/black Sable bull, most all others dropped dead at the shot, including the Buffalo.

So, what double would you knowledgeable men carry for Ele? I can shoot both with equal accuracy, can also carry both just fine, even though the 577 weighs 3lbs more.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Green Chile]

You're in a good position with a luxury of high end options. Either double is great of course. Ask yourself, which one speaks to me the loudest? Also consider the time of year and weather. Shooting the .577 and carrying it for many miles are 2 different activities. If you are tracking in sand for days you may regret the big gun. If you really want to test yourself, consider the big gun. Not many have the constitution to truly handle a .577 on long tracking hunts. Depending on how you feel about the subject, you could consider having someone carry the .577 while you carry the 458 for random things that can pop up.

 

[BJH65]

First, let me congratulate you on having the most excellent tastes in rifles! Really, really impressive, all of them! It would be wonderful to find a way to bring all three and add another elephant or hippo on land maybe, then use both doubles?

If it were me, and I could choose only one double, it would be your 577 Nitro Express. I think your 500-450 Nitro is similar ballistically to your 458 Win Mag so the 577 for elephant makes sense. What a wonderful “problem” to have.

 

[rookhawk]

Am sort of conflicted here, have a beautiful Holland Royal 500-450 Nitro with 26" barrels that swings like a bird gun, have also worked up a beautifully regulating load with 450gr Northfork flat nosed solids at 2210 fps over H-4831, the rifle is a spitting image of TR's rifle he used on the Smithsonian year long Safari, it's also just a couple serial numbers off his rifle.
The other choice is a mighty V\C boxlock 577 Nitro, also with 26" barrels, it's load with the 750gr Barnes banded flat nosed solid at 2076 fps over H-4350 needs no explanation, it is also very accurate.

With Ele, Lion and any other excellent representative of a plains game species will be on the list, the plains game, bait and cat rifle will be a beautiful Winston Elrod built 458 WM, he built it on a 1950 year model Winchester 70 375 H&H length action because he recognized the built in SAAMI throat length of the great 458 WM will let you load rounds to 3.585 inches.
It's loads are the 404gr Hammer bullet along with the excellent 400gr CEB #13 flat nosed solid, both loads clock 2600 fps.
The 404gr Hammer is already proven by me on Buffalo down to Impala, 20 to near 200 yards, longest animal travel after the shot was a 44" beautiful blue/black Sable bull, most all others dropped dead at the shot, including the Buffalo.

So, what double would you knowledgeable men carry for Ele? I can shoot both with equal accuracy, can also carry both just fine, even though the 577 weighs 3lbs more.

Thanks in advance.

I would prefer the 577NE for stopping power on a purely elephant safari.

In either case, I do not like the powder choices because you're enduring horrific recoil needlessly. I'd get both guns regulated with a powder like 3031 or RL15 that will greatly diminish recoil at the same velocity, allowing you a much faster recovery for the second follow-up shot.

 

[318AE]

Which one makes you smile the most when you pull it from the safe? I suspect it’s the H&H. You may be thinking if you don’t use the 577 on elephant, then when else will you use it. I’d bring the H&H.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I would go for the modern Verney Carron .577 Nitro Express boxlock ejector for a couple of reasons:

1) It’s barrel steel is modern and more durable for shooting monometal solid bullets. The Holland & Holland 500/450 Nitro Express sidelock ejector was made in the early 1900s (quite likely preceding the First World War). That’s even before steel jacketed FMJ solids started getting used in English rifles (although the Germans were using steel jacketed FMJ solids in their rifles already by 1912). If you have the barrel hardness of the Holland & Holland tested by using the Vickers Scale and the hardness exceeds 230 Vickers, then you can safely use steel jacketed FMJ solids in it (but not monometal solids). If not, then you must limit yourself to tombac jacketed FMJ solids (and to the best of my knowledge, only Wim Degol in Belgium currently offers tombac jacketed FMJ solid bullets for big bore rifles).

2) If not using a .577 Nitro Express on elephant, then what DO you use a .577 Nitro Express for ?

I know that vintage firearms yield nostalgia, but I’ve become an advocate of modern firearms with superior metallurgy ever since a recent mishap occurred.

Thread 'Why Vintage Firearms Mandate Careful Ammunition Selection'

Nov 21, 2025

A young friend went duck hunting today, with his 1953 made 12 gauge (2.75”) fully choked BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) Model XII. Those of you who’ve read my autobiography, will know that this shotgun once belonged to my late paternal uncle and I used it extensively for wing shooting during my youth.

The gun’s current owner has been using the weapon responsibly (ever since he purchased it one year ago) and only runs 36 gram loads through it, since the shotgun is proofed for 1 1/4 Oz of lead shot (he is currently using Sellier & Bellot Fortuna 36 gram No. 4s). Despite this, the gun developed...

• Hunter-Habib
• Replies: 13
• Forum: Firearms & ammunition

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I know that a lot of sportsmen get concerned about the perceived weight issues of having to lug a heavy .577 Nitro Express all day through the bushes. Which is quite a logical concern. But I will say this from personal experience. I’ve hunted hippopotamus on land with a Heym Model 88B Jumbo sidelock ejector in .600 Nitro Express, which weighed 13 pounds. I carried it for half a day, by myself (I never have any faith in keeping my weapon in the hands of even the world’s most level headed gun bearer, especially during a hunt for dangerous game). The 13 pound weight did not even remotely bother me, and I’m definitely no Hercules.

 

[AZDAVE]

I would take the 577 and do all the physical preparation to be able to carry it for the duration of your hunt.

 

[50Gunner]

Green Chile, very interesting points, The Holland is the coolest two by far too me, I did pack the 577 in The M'barangandu reserve in 2020 on a 21 day hunt, yes sir, dry and wet river sand up and over mountain alike I definitely knew I was loaded, Wife has app on her cell, we averaged 11 miles per day, she runs 26 mile marathons so it was all a walk in the park for her ; ]
The 577 took a massive dry land Hippo bull at 21 yards, one shot drop to never move again with 750gr TSX to the shoulder, a worn smooth very old ragged worn smooth to the nub Dagga boy was taken at 18 yards, waiting for the wind to blow an opening in the river reeds to shoot was quite the time, especially when you can hear guttural sounds and smell the bulls, his other six old coffee shop buddy bulls thundered away down the river at the shot.

I could be perfectly happy with the 577 being a Buffalo/Hippo rifle, the Holland already done a one shot stop on a fake republican with the 480gr DGS at 2148 fps, fist sized knot on off shoulder showed the bullet went deep and straight, nearly exiting.

 

[Surgeon1]

I would forget shooting monoliths in the vintage guns! That is asking to destroy a great rifle.
Consider something lighter than a 458 if any planes game are to be taken. IMHO

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I’d opt for the historical piece of history and take your holland back to Africa where she belongs.

@rookhawk and @Surgeon1 comments on your load might be something to consider. Would hate to see you damage that beautiful rifle.

 

[50Gunner]

BJH65, many thanks for the kind words sir, but, if I took those two a beautiful Alfred Shilling 500 Nitro would be left here all alone ; ]
It's a great rifle too with hard hammering 570gr Barnes banded solids/TSX's at 2167 fps, it would have to be a most decisive killer of all game.
The sheer destructive power of the 577 is indeed something to think about.

rookhawk, all good on the recoil, these Hodgdon powder are very temp stable, plus RL-15 is unobtanium, 3031 may be hard to get too, that said I did develop a load with 3031 in the Holland after I got it, 3gr pufflon to keep the powder against the primer, I put up 12 loads, wore them on a shell belt and went about my daily activities here on the farm, at the end of the day I could shake the powder in that massive 3-1/4" case, telling me the pufflon had let go, now here I am in Africa with a load I don't trust, so no fillers are wads for me, just large charges of slower burning powders that fill the case to the base of all bullets, they give a nice gently warm of the barrels all the way down.

318AE, you're exactly right, not to brag, but that Holland is the only rifle I have ever owned that looks like it moving 100 MPH sitting on a table, man did those Brits crush that build.

Hunter-Habib, you indeed have a very interesting point, that old steel is just like us, only so much life left, JJ already gave the 577 a clean bill of health awhile back, it's GTG and ready, the Northfork and CEB mono metal solids provide much less barrel strain and pressure than any other solid I've ever heard of, the Holland is already proven to fore the very hard sided Hornady DGs without a hitch, though I didn't fire very many and actually pulled those bullets and loaded the Northforks on my return home,

AZDAVE, Thanks, 3lbs more would be a little extra to carry as well as peace of mind with newer modern steel, the buffalo fell over and had began his death bellow before fully hitting the sand from a 750gr TSX in the last left side rib, the skinners handed me the bullet from the bulls right shoulder, it is indeed a very decisive hunting weapon.

 

[50Gunner]

Surgeon 1, a 404gr Hammer bullet at 2600 fps will let you hunt plains game to 400 yards if you know your drops, already confirmed here at the farm on steel gongs, shot an 8 and 10pt bucks over in Arkansas this year at near 200 yards with the same combo during their straight walled cartridge hunting season, both bucks dropped, great practice for plains game both great and small.

Plus, in the event of a catastrophe with a double the 458 WM with it's loads can handily complete any safari.

 

[Whit]

I'd second @Mtn_Infantry. A rifle almost identical to Teddy Roosevelt's? As soon as I read the provenance of your Holland & Holland, I didn't even consider the other rifle... .577 NE or not.

 

[Whit]

@50Gunner if I may ask, where in OK are you located?

 

[50Gunner]

Mtn Infantry, Thanks, that old rifle is in very good hands with those loads, the slower powders develop pressure the full length down the bores, not a hard fast pressure dump like faster burning powders, plus, Michael458 and Sam have most likely spent a war pension of money on testing ALL solids for double rifle and bolt alike.
The Northfork and CEB solids are kinder to old and new steel and build the least amount pf pressure across the board.

 

[50Gunner]

Thanks Whit, it would be near a crime to leave the Holland home, will most likely only hunt Ele once, time will be early October in Bots or Zim so it will be hot.

This farm is in the SE Oklahoma mountain country.