The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread

[t165]

I can't help but ask this. The 7mm Backcountry is operating at 80,000 psi. Apparently, the action of modern firearms can handle the pressure. The brass case has been the weak link in the chain. What kind of velocity would a 500 grain projectile have out of a "22 barrel 80,000 psi modern firearm? How close would a standard action DGR so equipped come to the 460 Weatherby. Could it match the 458 lott in a standard action?

 

[Northern Shooter]

I can't help but ask this. The 7mm Backcountry is operating at 80,000 psi. Apparently, the action of modern firearms can handle the pressure. The brass case has been the weak link in the chain. What kind of velocity would a 500 grain projectile have out of a "22 barrel 80,000 psi modern firearm? How close would a standard action DGR so equipped come to the 460 Weatherby. Could it match the 458 lott in a standard action?

More than I would want to handle.

 

[IvW]

All the cartridge I will ever need is the 500 Jeff.....the 458 WM falls well short......

 

[Doug Hamilton]

All the cartridge I will ever need is the 500 Jeff.....the 458 WM falls well short......

Yeah, yeah. We know. You don't Like the .458 Win. The fact that it has proven to be entirely adequate for many thousands of hunters for over 60 years is irrelevant. As a PH, you might want something heavier, but for most of us the .458 WM is plenty.

 

[IvW]

You 458wm okes are way too sensitive.....

 

[CZDiesel]

Well I think this settles the debate!

 

[Northern Shooter]

You 458wm okes are way too sensitive.....

What will the 500 Jeffery do that the 458 WM can't?

 

[hoytcanon]

What will the 500 Jeffery do that the 458 WM can't?

With that logic, we would all be shooting
30/06's....

What will the .308 do that the .243 can't... etc... etc...

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

What will the 500 Jeffery do that the 458 WM can't?

Hurt your shoulder more after 10 rounds
Gumpy

 

[Northern Shooter]

With that logic, we would all be shooting
30/06's....

What will the .308 do that the .243 can't... etc... etc...

Kinda. Both these cartridges compete in the same sphere for the same purpose (dangerous game, stopping cartridge).

Both can be used for body shots on elephant and capable of penetrating an elephant/Buffalo/Hippo from end to end. The 500gr 458 bullet even has higher S.D. than either the 535gr or 570gr 0.510 bullets.

What does the 500J measurably provide for these purposes that the 458 comes up short at? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[hoytcanon]

Kinda. Both these cartridges compete in the same sphere for the same purpose (dangerous game, stopping cartridge).

Both can be used for body shots on elephant and capable of penetrating an elephant/Buffalo/Hippo from end to end. The 500gr 458 bullet even has higher S.D. than either the 535gr or 570gr 0.510 bullets.

What does the 500J measurably provide for these purposes that the 458 comes up short at? I'm genuinely curious.

Mass & momentum... and most of all, choice.

 

[Eavakian1966]

I just want to thank so many of you for your input in this thread. @Riflecrank, @Northern Shooter, @CZDiesel and so many more. I recently acquired my first 458 Win Mag in a Model 70 Super Express with a 22' barrel. Prior to this my Largest caliber shooting was handled by my 300 Weatherby Magnum, so this is a jump in size. I have only shot about 30 rounds as I start to sight it in and get used to it. It needs some modifications the trigger being the next thing I am doing as well as others. I do hand load but not the 458 yet as I am just accumulating brass to do so. This gun is being built specifically for my next trip to SA for a Cape Buffalo in 2026. so I have time to figure out what the gun as well as myself like to shoot. I have gained more information on this caliber reading this today than the last 3 months reading everything I could find on the 458 Win Mag and I will defiantly try out several of the load s recommended or referenced here in. So Thank you all again for your sharing your wisdom and experience some of us GREATLY appreciate it!

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I just want to thank so many of you for your input in this thread. @Riflecrank, @Northern Shooter, @CZDiesel and so many more. I recently acquired my first 458 Win Mag in a Model 70 Super Express with a 22' barrel. Prior to this my Largest caliber shooting was handled by my 300 Weatherby Magnum, so this is a jump in size. I have only shot about 30 rounds as I start to sight it in and get used to it. It needs some modifications the trigger being the next thing I am doing as well as others. I do hand load but not the 458 yet as I am just accumulating brass to do so. This gun is being built specifically for my next trip to SA for a Cape Buffalo in 2026. so I have time to figure out what the gun as well as myself like to shoot. I have gained more information on this caliber reading this today than the last 3 months reading everything I could find on the 458 Win Mag and I will defiantly try out several of the load s recommended or referenced here in. So Thank you all again for your sharing your wisdom and experience some of us GREATLY appreciate it!

you will need brass so contact Raven Rocks sponsor on the forum the have brass 40 for 50 round Leigh brass looks good, have fun

 

[Eavakian1966]

you will need brass so contact Raven Rocks sponsor on the forum the have brass 40 for 50 round Leigh brass looks good, have fun

Thanks I will def

 

[C.W. Richter]

All the cartridge I will ever need is the 500 Jeff.....the 458 WM falls well short......

'Been there. lol

 

[C.W. Richter]

What will the 500 Jeffery do that the 458 WM can't?

Please, before posting, read ALL of Kevin Robertson's books (prob available as an e-book that you can listen to while driving to the hospital...) lol

 

[C.W. Richter]

You 458wm okes are way too sensitive.....

The 458 WM was the introduction to the train of thought that American gun mfrs are really NOT looking out for anyone's best interest but their$! SMH for decades... (Ok, cordite shortage, et. al. wars f'n thing up...got it. We didn't need that once the 416s, 500s were introduced-as they blow the 458 WM(Short) out of the water!) I had one. It was a pleasure to shoot. Son was handed it for a buff at 20 yds (akin to a 22LR DG LOL). Much better cartridges out there! AK. Ok.

 

[Brian]

Please, before posting, read ALL of Kevin Robertson's books (prob available as an e-book that you can listen to while driving to the hospital...) lol

Have you ever killed cape buffalo with a .500 NE or .500 Jeff or a 577NE using a premium bullet? I have seen a huge difference between them and the 458 WM. The 458 WM is great but it is still at the bottom of the real big bores. (Yes, I have seen how the 416 kills buffalo... about twice as well as a 375 and half as well as a .500 or 577. ) Brian

 

[fourfive8]

I just want to thank so many of you for your input in this thread. @Riflecrank, @Northern Shooter, @CZDiesel and so many more. I recently acquired my first 458 Win Mag in a Model 70 Super Express with a 22' barrel. Prior to this my Largest caliber shooting was handled by my 300 Weatherby Magnum, so this is a jump in size. I have only shot about 30 rounds as I start to sight it in and get used to it. It needs some modifications the trigger being the next thing I am doing as well as others. I do hand load but not the 458 yet as I am just accumulating brass to do so. This gun is being built specifically for my next trip to SA for a Cape Buffalo in 2026. so I have time to figure out what the gun as well as myself like to shoot. I have gained more information on this caliber reading this today than the last 3 months reading everything I could find on the 458 Win Mag and I will defiantly try out several of the load s recommended or referenced here in. So Thank you all again for your sharing your wisdom and experience some of us GREATLY appreciate it!

That rifle and caliber will do fine. Huge egos, myths and old wive’s tales live and massage each other, in perpetuity on the internet. Doubt it? … Pay attention to the hypocrisy and echo chamber hiding in plain sight on the subjects of rifles and calibers. Two examples I often see when discussing the 7x57 and 375HH… the same crowd who criticize and demeans owners of the 458 WM speak of both the 7x57 and 375HH as near as any caliber to Thor’s hammer as is known in the mortal world.

For reloading the 458 WM, follow the recommended starting loads and work up carefully. Use a chronograph and keep velocity objectives within reason, Forget trying to hot rod any hunting cartridge. Standard factory vels tend to run around 2150 for a reason! Use temperature insensitive powders and pay no attention to ideas of comparing any cartridge to some stupid standard like 80 k PSI…WTH! Watch for high pressure signs during load work up. A 45 cal 450 grain tough expanding bullet loaded to 2100 fps through the heart/lung boiler of a buffalo will do the job. Your average shot distance on buffalo will likely be somewhere around 50 +/- yards.

I would start by getting some good, tough 450 gr hunting bullets. Use a Lee FCD die for crimping. Big bonus if bullet has crimp groove located/designed for the 458 WM length. Benchmark and similar temperature insensitive powders are good powders to try, Avoid slower ball powders even if someone promises a few more fps!

Reliability is the name of the game for DG ammo.

 

[Tom Leoni]

While I personally have no use for a .450 WM, it is a splendid cartridge in its own right. The versatility of the .458 diameter, with the plethora of bullets available, is truly staggering. You essentially have a .45-70 Springfield carbine load all the way to a .450 Nitro Express. I really like the advice given to you by @fourfive8 just above.

For today's casual sportsman--and whether we like it or not, all of us paying clients are casual sportsmen compared to PHs or the ivory hunters of old--a .458 is a no-compromise versatile cartridge that, in a pinch, can reach out to plains game at 300 yards or reliably kill a pachyderm at close range. Oh, and you can load it down to hunt here in the US too, if you like the rifle and make it "your thing."

Why don't I have any use for it? Because I'm not that interested in pachyderms, and the only dangerous game that I may explore is buffalo and possibly leopard, for which my .375 is quite enough, once (or if ever) my fever for plains game breaks.