The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread

[BigHill]

For the record, Norma PH 450 gr, SD 0.371. 416 Rigby that is.

 

[CZDiesel]

For the record, Norma PH 450 gr, SD 0.371. 416 Rigby that is.

Aaand? I’m confused!?!? Because for the record 550gr, SD 0.375. 458 that is…

 

[Piet-Vis]

.458 WinMag once-fired brass, not re-sized, not de-primed, and at 2.500" length by calculation if actually shorter, to level the playing field, gross water capacities in grains:

W-W Super (post 1996): = 94.9
R-P = 94.8
Hornady = 94.6
Federal plain brass = 94.6
Federal nickel-plated = 94.4
Norma = 99.3 grains
Peterson Wildcat Tubes fire-formed in .458 WinMag and trimmed to 2.500" = 93.8

Pending first firing of Lehigh Defense .458 WinMag, TBD, it looks near identical in cross-section to the Peterson-based brass, and like the Peterson will probably be just a little under 94.0 grains H20 gross.
I have some Qual-Cart brass for .458 WinMag on the way to be looked at also, first time for me on that one too.

Norma brass is the only big outlier,
The effect is that Norma brass can be loaded about 0.100" shorter in COaL and produce the same net case capacity as the others.

QuickLOAD default case capacity for the .458 WinMag was 95.0 grains H2O last time I looked.

W-W, R-P, Hornady, and Federal are all about the same, interchangeable in loads.
Treat them as being of the standard case capacity for .458 WinMag.
If you have a Norma-cased load and move it to a "standard case capacity" brass,
then you need to load those 0.100" longer in COaL.

Is Norma cases not the answer then if a person wants a bit more oompfh out of a 458?

 

[hoytcanon]

Is Norma cases not the answer then if a person wants a bit more oompfh out of a 458?

If you can max pressure in a W-W case, how does a Norma case help you?

For the record, my new sized .458 WM W-W cases are pretty much the same capacity as new sized .458 WM Norma cases, within a grain or two either way.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

By loading the bullet out longer, I load mine out to 3.680 in a cz 550 so more powder. 404 Hammer at 2500 and 450 tsx at 2450 fps

 

[Letzhunt]

What powder to get a 450 TSX at 2450? And what barrel length?

 

[hoytcanon]

OAL and powder capacity only matter if you can't achieve peak pressure, if you get up to 65K, I would be pumping the brakes, no matter what the "Back Country" says...

 

[50Gunner]

HC, no offense taken, agreed with the pressuring up and the litigators, doesn't take much to hurt their feelers, all good.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

What powder to get a 450 TSX at 2450? And what barrel length?

25in and AA2230

 

[Toxicsox]

Can someone tell me what would be a safe load to practice with using NORMA 201 and 485 PMP Solids that is uncompressed? For practice at 15 - 20 M?

 

[hoytcanon]

Can someone tell me what would be a safe load to practice with using NORMA 201 and 485 PMP Solids that is uncompressed? For practice at 15 - 20 M?

Use H4895 @ 70% of max.

 

[BKS1]

Has anyone ever done a direct comparison with the 350gr Hornady and 350gr Speer bullets?

 

[MikeWas]

Sorry but the .458 Lott is just better in all regards. I say why compromise when it’s available, and easy.

The 458 WIN is more than sufficient in every way, and rifles are much cheaper. Why spend more for the 458 Lott rifle, you'll end up shooting the same loads as the guys with 458 WIN rifles!

 

[hoytcanon]

Has anyone ever done a direct comparison with the 350gr Hornady and 350gr Speer bullets?

I have shot both bullets with the same loading... the Speers were more accurate out of my rifle, but the flat nose caused feeding issues in my Ruger bolt action, I was forced to file them into a round nose... which was the reason I then switched to the Hornady, which was only slightly less accurate, but fed perfectly.

 

[BKS1]

The Speer is supposed to be tougher? Right?

 

[hoytcanon]

The Speer is supposed to be tougher? Right?

None.of the deer or bears complained much about either.

 

[TOBY458]

I have shot both bullets with the same loading... the Speers were more accurate out of my rifle, but the flat nose caused feeding issues in my Ruger bolt action, I was forced to file them into a round nose... which was the reason I then switched to the Hornady, which was only slightly less accurate, but fed perfectly.

Have you ever tried flat nosed solids like a CEB in the Ruger? Thinking maybe the longer nose of the full sized solids would feed better than the short, stubby 350 gr. bullets. While I realize that you don’t need a solid for your purposes, most likely, I was just wondering if you had ever tried the CEB solids in your Ruger.

 

[rdog]

In my younger days i had a Ruger 77 tang safety 458 win mag , Tiapan an Australian bullet manufacture, sadly now out of business made a 350 grain rolled in hollow point for the 45/70 called a SST, long before the Hornady of the same name. loaded to about 2600 fps they turned wild bores into
hamburgers. I can remember my youngest son shooting 500 grain Winchester factory ammo & the recoil knocked off his hat. I am afraid of that much recoil, as i have both shoulders repaired, the 458 Lott would be much worse.

 

[hoytcanon]

Have you ever tried flat nosed solids like a CEB in the Ruger? Thinking maybe the longer nose of the full sized solids would feed better than the short, stubby 350 gr. bullets. While I realize that you don’t need a solid for your purposes, most likely, I was just wondering if you had ever tried the CEB solids in your Ruger.

Nope, Never tried the CEB... currently, I shoot 400 grain Barnes Original SP's and 450 Grain TSX out of my Ruger Carbine.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

In my younger days i had a Ruger 77 tang safety 458 win mag , Tiapan an Australian bullet manufacture, sadly now out of business made a 350 grain rolled in hollow point for the 45/70 called a SST, long before the Hornady of the same name. loaded to about 2600 fps they turned wild bores into
hamburgers. I can remember my youngest son shooting 500 grain Winchester factory ammo & the recoil knocked off his hat. I am afraid of that much recoil, as i have both shoulders repaired, the 458 Lott would be much worse.

@rdog
When I was in the USA I had a shot of a Ruger No1 in 458 Lott. Recoil with the 405s was fine, the 500s at full noise weren't bad. You did know you had pulled the trigger but very manageable
Bob