South Africa's ANC to change constitution to allow seizing land

LivingTheDream

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What exactly is it that your worried about. I see in the world news. That somwhere around 20 people were shot in chicago last weekend. I do not see where foreign visitors are cancelling there plans to visit disneyland in Florida. I just don't think I would want to visit certain parts of Chicago, bad, bad leroy Brown still might be about! Hunt Africa and enjoy life!


Only 20, heard last weekend it was 73. Chicago is awesome, just not the south side. Africa is awesome, I just wouldn't wave cash around in a shanty town at night.
 

wesheltonj

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It now appears that many of these properties are on coal, gold and platinum belts. 3 of the farms border the presidents.

The plot thickens.

And is this a surprise to anyone?
 

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I find the idea of govt stealing land from private owners very distasteful, and troubling. I was told by a PH I know there that much of the land in question is owned by white absentee owners and is not being properly utilized and that in that instance he was not troubled by it. He doesn't own any land himself I don't believe other than perhaps where his home sits and its not a farm or large holding. Considering the direction things seem to be going, I seriously doubt I will return, unless such blatant nonsense is disavowed. There are other places to go besides RSA. As far as Chicago goes, I have never been there and have no plans to EVER go there and its a long ways from where I live on the West coast.
 

Hogpatrol

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What Will Happen When the ANC Takes My Farm

Spurgeon Flemington, Facebook, August 11, 2018

Help me out here. Who's going to buy all his assets? Another white farmer? A black farmer who can't get a loan from technically insolvent bank? My take, his scenario hasn't much chance of happening.

Having said that, in the unlikely event this situation came to be, the bleeding heart liberal World Bank will step in and throw money down another rat hole just as they did in Zimbabwe and dozens of other failed states.
 

TXhunter65

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Help me out here. Who's going to buy all his assets? Another white farmer? A black farmer who can't get a loan from technically insolvent bank? My take, his scenario hasn't much chance of happening.

Having said that, in the unlikely event this situation came to be, the bleeding heart liberal World Bank will step in and throw money down another rat hole just as they did in Zimbabwe and dozens of other failed states.

I agree, if he did find a buyer you’d likely be talking pennies on the dollar if that.
 

flatwater bill

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Antiflg.......................I suggest you put a few bags of Qwik-Crete in every bore hole. In Rhodesia the higher up officials went after the best farms first.........didn't do a damn thing for the poor..............I was in RSA when then Sec Hillary offered $14 million in Aids fighting medical supplies. It was refused because it was not in cash.....They don't want to help their poor................just more gravy-train freeloaders. Calling it EWC gives it legitimacy............................it is stealing..................pure and simple. But not just money.................a way of life...an entire family history......a family future.........Each time this happens in Africa or elsewhere, it is minimalized by people saying..."East LA is more dangerous"...or "No worse than Chicago"........meaningless statements................It doesn't make it right just because someone else is also bad, and it does not bode well for the future of RSA in general, or hunting in specific. Socialism in its many forms and faces...............somebody to steal from because they have done well....somebody to get free things because they could not succeed............Think it can't happen here? The USA elected 5 politicians from the "Democratic Socialist Party" this year........FWB
 

BRICKBURN

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The latest blather.
Screen Shot 2018-08-15 at 09.08.31.png
 

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antiflag83

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Antiflg.......................I suggest you put a few bags of Qwik-Crete in every bore hole. In Rhodesia.....FWB

Bill, just to be clear, it's not my farm :) mine is in Namibia...let's see if it will be different there....
The text was a post on FB that I wanted to share (author indicated).

Thank you.
R.
 

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I wonder if the western world would take notice if the ANC stated they would take Kruger Park and turn it into a reservation for the landless. They could sell the Ivory and rhino horn to help form their utopia. Just curious.
 

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White farmers try to offload land in South Africa before it is seized from them 'as government tries to grab first two hunting reserves without paying'


  • Union bosses in South Africa say record number of farms are up for sale
  • But nobody is willing to buy the land amid fears the government will seize it
  • There are fears investment will fall leading to job losses that may rob South Africa of the ability to feed itself
  • Game reserve owners say they are the first to be targeted for seizure after talks with government to buy land at a tenth of its value broke down

White farmers in South Africa are trying to flog their land as fears grow that the government is about to start a widespread campaign of seizures.

Union bosses say a record number of properties are for sale but nobody is buying, making the properties effectively worthless.

Agri SA union, which represents mainly white commercial farmers, has warned that such seizures will deter investment, cause job losses, and may rob South Africa of the ability to feed itself.

Meanwhile two farms in the north of the country have reportedly become the first targets for seizures after talks between the government and owners about buying the land broke down.

Akkerland Boerdery, the owners of two game reserves in Limpopo, told City Pressthat the government asked to buy their land but was only willing to offer a tenth of the price.

When the offer was refused, ministers allegedly sent a letter which said: 'Notice is hereby given that a terrain inspection will be held on the farms on April 5 2018 at 10am in order to conduct an audit of the assets and a handover of the farm's keys to the state.'

If the land is seized it will be the first time that the South African government has refused to pay market value for land.

Since the end of apartheid in 1994, the ANC has followed a 'willing seller, willing buyer' process to redistribute white-owned farms to blacks.

But according to a government audit last year, 72 per cent of farmland in South Africa is still owned by whites, despite them making up 9 per cent of the population.

That statistic prompted Cyril Ramaphosa, South Africa's president who succeeded Jacob Zuma last year, to commit to a program of land expropriation.

His ANC party has promised to 'test out' section 25 of the constitution, which allows the government to seize land to re-balance past 'racially discriminatory laws'.

The constitution makes it clear that reasonable compensation must be offered to the owner of the land, but the ANC is now planning a number of test cases to see if land can be seized without money changing hands if it is 'in the public interest'.

If such bids fail, the ANC has threatened to amend the constitution.

A program of land seizures in nearby Zimbabwe in the 1990s sent the country into an economic spiral from which it has never fully recovered.

Reports earlier this month suggested ministers have already drawn up a list of 139 South African farms to be targeted, though the government denies the existence of any such list.

Omri van Zyl, head of the Agri SA union, which represents mainly white commercial farmers, told The Express: 'The mood among our members is very solemn.

'They are confused about the lack of any apparent strategy from the government and many are panicking.

'So many farms are up for sale, more than we've ever had, but no one is buying.'

ANC chairman Gwede Mantashe sparked more panic last week when he suggested that anyone owning more than 25,000 acres would be targeted.

Agri SA said about 20 per cent of South Africa's farms produce 80 per cent of the food, and many of those properties would be affected by the cap.

There are fears that the release of the list of 139 farms to be seized has already made the land worthless.

Cattle farmer Jo-an Engelbrecht told the ABC's Foreign Correspondent his farm just outside Johannesburg was now 'worth zero'.

'We had several auctions in the last two or three weeks cancelled because there was no people interested in buying the land,' he said.

'Why would you buy a farm to know the government's going to take it?'


Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ers-try-offload-land-South-Africa-seized.html
 

thriller

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Just Saw this it is ad to see this happening. ( link is to the article i read)

https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...s/news-story/8937f899bd3f131bfc4ffb648ea5c53b

South Africa begins seizing white-owned farms
SOUTH Africa has targeted the first two farms for unilateral seizure after the owners refused an offer of one-tenth of the land’s value.

First to be targeted for unilateral seizure after negotiations with the owners to purchase the properties stalled.

While the government says it intends to pay, owners Akkerland Boerdery wanted 200 million rand ($18.7 million) for the land — they’re being offered just 20 million rand ($1.87 million).

“Notice is hereby given that a terrain inspection will be held on the farms on April 5, 2018 at 10am in order to conduct an audit of the assets and a handover of the farm’s keys to the state,” a letter sent to the owners earlier this year said.

Akkerland Boerdery obtained an urgent injunction to prevent eviction until a court had ruled on the issue, but the Department of Rural Development and Land Affairs is opposing the application.

“What makes the Akkerland case unique is that they apparently were not given the opportunity to first dispute the claim in court, as the law requires,” AgriSA union spokeswoman Annelize Crosby told the paper.


These farms are on the goverment's #farmlist that ⁦@afriforum⁩ exposed. And yet government still denies that the list exists... but it is now clear that government is lying to the public. https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/state-takes-first-farm-20180818 …



It comes as the South African government pushes ahead with plans to amend the country’s constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation.

The seizures are intended to test the ability of the government to take land under existing laws, which the ruling African National Congress has previously stated is allowable if “in the public interest”.

Earlier this month, City Press reported the government had drawn up a list of 139 farms it planned to seize “to test out” section 25 of the constitution.

The newspaper said employees at the department had been ordered to press ahead with the process at the Land Claims Court.

If the seizures go ahead, it would be the first time the state refuses to pay market value for land. Since the end of apartheid in 1994, the ANC has followed a “willing seller, willing buyer” process to redistribute white-owned farms to blacks.

A 2017 government audit found white people owned 72 per cent of private farmland in South Africa. According to the 2011 census, there are about 4.6 million white people in South Africa, accounting for 8.9 per cent of the population.

African National Congress spokesman Zizi Kodwa would not reveal details of the farms targeted and attempted to play down investor fears, saying the proposed seizures were “tied to addressing the injustices of the past”.

“Over time I think the markets as well as investors will appreciate that what we are doing is creating policy certainty and creating the conditions for future investment,” he told City Press.

Afriforum, a civil-rights group representing the white Afrikaner minority, subsequently released what it claimed to be a leaked list of 190 farms “being circulated in the department”, inviting farmers to check if they were on it and asking them to get in touch “so that we can prepare for a joint legal strategy”.

The government hit back, with department spokeswoman Linda Page telling News24the list was a fake. “We don’t know where they got it from,” she said. “There is no truth to this document.”

News24 editor-in-chief Adriaan Basson slammed Afriforum for “disgusting fearmongering in the highest degree”. “Will Afriforum take action against (deputy CEO) Ernst Roets for distributing fake news?” he tweeted. “Will they apologise? We need cool heads — not arsonists — in this debate.”

On Sunday, Mr Roets tweeted that the two farms — Salaita and Lukin — were the first two names on Afriforum’s list.

“So the debate about the authenticity of the list is settled then?” he said. “We hope that the gravity of the state’s plans for expropriation is understood and that people will see through the dishonesty of the Department of Land Reform and Rural Development.

“We hope that the attempts to discredit the legitimacy of the list has now been proven to be malicious for good. We shouldn’t be misled by those who sing Kumbaya while the state is planning to expropriate property.”

AgriSA had described Afriforum’s release of the list as “irresponsible” and “inflammatory”, saying “cursory background research showed” several inaccuracies, including that a number of the farms were joint ventures co-owned by black people.

Earlier this month, cattle farmer Jo-an Engelbrecht told the ABC’s Foreign Correspondent his farm just outside Johannesburg was now “worth zero”.

“We had several auctions in the last two or three weeks cancelled because there was no people interested in buying the land,” he said. “Why would you buy a farm to know the government’s going to take it?”

frank.chung@news.com.au
 

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Graham Hunter

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Zimbabwe has never fully recovered?? How about haven't recovered at all.
 

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I hunted a farm near Colesburg in RSA three years ago. The third generation owner and I talked about his business, politics, and the future. In the course of conversation, he asked me what I'd do if I lived there and had a farm. I told him I'd sell everything and move to the U.S. or Australia. I haven't heard from him but after recent developments, I wonder what he now thinks of that advice.
 

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I hunted a farm near Colesburg in RSA three years ago. The third generation owner and I talked about his business, politics, and the future. In the course of conversation, he asked me what I'd do if I lived there and had a farm. I told him I'd sell everything and move to the U.S. or Australia. I haven't heard from him but after recent developments, I wonder what he now thinks of that advice.

I´ve had the same conversation with several farm owners since my first visit to SA 10 years ago.

My advice was exactly the same, sell while you can. The answer, no, we are safe, it won´t happen.
 

Pondoro

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Try to sell...move whatever money you have abroad to safe banks...if nobody buys stay put and make the best of it while making a plan B to leave the country..

If expropriation is imminent, sell off whatever farming equipment you can, destroy the rest...fill up all wells, sewer pipes and boreholes with concrete and dynamite all buildings...scorched earth...makem start at year zero..
 

Hogpatrol

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Try to sell...move whatever money you have abroad to safe banks...if nobody buys stay put and make the best of it while making a plan B to leave the country..

If expropriation is imminent, sell off whatever farming equipment you can, destroy the rest...fill up all wells, sewer pipes and boreholes with concrete and dynamite all buildings...scorched earth...makem start at year zero..

Most likely wouldn't need to destroy anything. Six months and the real estate would be stripped of anything worth more than a tenth of a rand.
 

mrpoindexter

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The problem with scorched earth is that if you win it back in court, what do you get back? I certainly would have a "going out of business sale" hunt.

That said, what I read is the ANC offered them ZAR 20M ($1.87 million USD) while the owners wanted ZAR 200M ($18.7 million USD). It is a 3200 Hectare farm.

I looked for some comparable ranches for sale and saw one 3,052 ha ranch in Vaalwater for 55M. There was a 3710ha ranch in Nylstroom that had a lot of commercial ag with silos, pivot irrigation, 21 houses spread across the property and they are asking 105M Rand.

I looked all over and I could not find a comparable size ranch for the low price that the ANC was asking - nothing really even close, but likewise I couldn't find anything comparable that was near the 200M on the other side of the table. My guess is that if it were to sell on the open market (assuming they did not have the government claw game dropping onto their property to take it away) then it would probably be somewhere in the 70-85M Rand range.

Here is a "Luxury game ranch" in Vaalwater that sold for 42.5M Rand. It is 3/4 the size of the one in question. I have a hard time seeing the 5x valuation on Akkerland compared to this one. I am likewise finding it hard to swallow that it would be worth less than half this ranch:
http://www.gamefarmestates.co.za/Co...Prop_/Web_Links/22000ha/346_000ha/2428ha.html
 

LivingTheDream

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Well it could have been a 200m evaluation if the government supported land rights. I'm sure the current prices reflect the depressed market due to bad policies.
 

cmnhunt

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Most likely wouldn't need to destroy anything. Six months and the real estate would be stripped of anything worth more than a tenth of a rand.
I agree. I wouldn't start going postal just yet. It seems any news article that is put out makes the markets fart in unison. Just mentioning "land" and "taking" in the same sentence drops the value of the Rand. Most guys would be better to slide their currency into US dollars in a US bank. If a crisis started, I would imagine there is going to be a big OOOOF sound as no one pays their next payment on whatever they owe. As for destroying things, It takes about 1/2 a year for a nice place to look like a pig pen naturally with no up keep. All's I have to do is buy a tractor and it automatically breaks down. No problem.
 

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