Scope Recommendation for First-Time 35 Whelen Project

[TexianHussar]

This is the kind of stuff I love learning from you all! Thanks for taking the time to make this point! Grip hands @USMA84DAB

 

[BeeMaa]

Over 24 hours on a 35W thread and no @Bob Nelson 35Whelen post? Someone needs to make sure he’s not dead!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Over 24 hours on a 35W thread and no @Bob Nelson 35Whelen post? Someone needs to make sure he’s not dead!

@BeeMaa
Been reading another post on retirement so now I better reply to this one
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi All,

I've recently acquired a RJ Renner "Old African " Ruger M77 in 35 Whelen from an esteemed forum member. I have a collection of African rifles (Dakota 76s and Model 10s mostly) wearing Swarovskis, and I've got a Leopold VX-5HD on my Tikka 30-06, but I don't really have any other experience with optics.

This is my first 35 Whelen (!) and the idea for the rifle is a classic American "workmanlike" rifle, despite the RJ Renner name for the upgrade package. Something recalling the classic Griffin & Howe rifles, perhaps. My ideal scope would be something like a Swarovski Z8i 1.7-13.3x42, but obviously that's not terribly "workmanlike" or budget conscious.

Essentially, I'm looking for a great scope in the $750-1.5k range to mount on a rifle in the $2-3k range. Putting a $2-4k scope on this rifle doesn't feel right for this project. Tell me if you think I'm being utterly silly about that...

The use case for the rifle is primarily focused on North American big game (bears, moose, bison, elk, etc) at short to medium range (not shooting past 400 yards or so). Planning to shoot 200gr TTSXs and 225gr TBBCs. I appreciate a scope with large magnification range because my eyes aren't exactly great, but want to have something useful for close work in timber.

I've been seeing Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-12x42 and Meopta Meostar R2 1.7-10x42 scopes in the $900 range. I have heard amazing things about both, but also some not-so-amazing things recently about Meopta (not sure if it applies to the Meostar line).

Anyone have strong opinions on these two scopes? Any other options I should consider to get Swarovski Z8i 1.7-13.3x42-like performance/magnification range on a bit more of a budget?

Thanks for your time!

-Alex

@alexaib
I run a Ziess tera 3.5-10 on my Whelen and love the thich outers and finer inner in the duplex reticle
I also run meopta scope 3.5-10s in two other rifles that have never let me down.
As for the Whelen you need a few pounds of CFE223 to Stoke it up.
You will be able to get those 225s up to around 2,900fps and the 200s pushing 3,000fps.
Personally I would go the 225s they will carry their authority out further. At 490 they will still be carrying 2,000 for which is a pretty decent punch.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

A vintage scope would certainly fit this rifle, but if you don't care about that, the Trijicon would likely be perfect. I find myself wishing I had something that topped out at 12x on my 35 Whelen at times, lately.

@Albert GRANT
If'n y'all can't hit it on ten power an extra little bit won't matter.
Maybe a meopta optica6 in 3-15 power would suit better.
Once you get above ten power you are getting into more bells and whistles like parallax adjustment. It's just more to complete your shooting
Remember in ten power if a target is 400yards away it's like shooting at 40 yards. 400÷10=40.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Very cool, and thank you for the link @dchum! Can’t wait to take the 300 H&H and the 275 Rigby out to Khomas in May!

We’ll have to do a Classic American Calibers on African Game hunt at some point in the future. I love a theme lol.

@alexaib
There's only two classic American calibers
The mighty 35 Whelen and the 257 Roberts.
The others just lack class.
Some will say the 30-06 but they are like arseholes, nearly everyone has one so lack class despite being a good calibre .
The 270 doesn't even get a look in. Does nothing a good 25 won't do and if you do the mathematics it 2/3 the diameter of the 06 so only 2/3 as good
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Your loads would allow you to reach out past 300 in a pinch - if you know your ballistic curve - OR if you chronograph the load and get a Custom Dial System (CDS) cap from Leupold.

Something that most people neglect is to get a reticle that matches well with the anticipated target. A bull elk is going to linger in deep woods until very last light - a lit reticle (Leupold firedot) would be the perfect recipe - same for a dark colored bear or a moose. Trijicon are lit also.

Trijicon 3-9x40 - light weight, $700 range, sack of hammers tough, and very nice glass

Leupold VX6 2-12x42 - this gets your higher magnification desire, good glass, CDS, firedot reticle - not a pig on weight

Leupold VX5 2-10x42 - same glass as the VX6, CDS, firedot

@USMA84DAB
Loaded with a nice point 225 to 2,900fps sighted 3"high at 100 the projectile will neither rise or fall more than 4" out to close on 300yard and will only drop 21-24 inches at 400.
Therefore I deduce young Watson that it is no drama out to that range with a backline hole on an elk size animal.
I know you have more experience in longer range shooting than me but the Whelen is an easy 400 yard round in the right hands
Bob

 

[dgr416]

Nikon 3x9 made in japan those scopes are almost indestructable .I shot my 416 rem mag model 70 with one over 2500 times still ticking .I used one on my ruger 77 338 win mag 3000 shors over 40 years of tough huntimg no problem.These days I do like 50 mm better than 40 mm for older eyes .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Lots of great scopes have already been recommended by some very experienced shooters. Nothing wrong with a Swarovski or Zeiss!

Aesthetically, I would go a different direction. Placing a 10x or 12x in a 30mm tube with 42mm or 44mm or larger objective bell on top of a sleek, classy rifle profile is, to my eye, out of proportion. Additionally, the venerable 35 Whelen shines at close-to-medium range hunting, for which lower magnification is well suited or even ideal.

Were it my rifle, I would look for a 2-7x36 or even a fixed 4x, in a 1-inch tube, keeping the scope low mounted and in proportion with the slender, oil finished Renner stock. No exposed turrets, and classic QD lever rings (assuming you have iron sights on the barrel).

Vintage Gun Scopes is a great resource, or go with a new model Leupold, Swarovski, Leica, etc… but either way keep it sleek.

@dneaster3
Back in the days of yore gun writers touted the Whelen as a good short range brush cartridge.

Nothing could be further from the truth
With modern loads the Whelen is a fully capable 400+ yard rifle in the right hands. Load a 225gn accubond to 2,900fps and it will leave nothing to be desired. Shoots flatter than a 308 with a 150 gn SST and hits as hard as the 338 win mag out to that range.
Bob

 

[wolfhunter]

My 1st Alaskan moose was shot at over 350+ yds knocked down got up and ran closer that did not work out well for him.

 

[wolfhunter]

35 whelen AI 225 hr.swift a frame

 

[PanhandlinPat]

An alternative to those listed would be a Maven rs2. They’re 2-10 power, 12 ounces, and will take a beating. Your 35 sounds sleek, I’d hate to put a tank of a scope on it.

I’ll add I have one of these little mavens on my 35 Whelen Mauser, and it’s taken some serious abuse. I left it on my flatbed in a canvas scabbard, getting bounced around on rough ranch roads and it held zero. Not something I’d usually subject a rifle to but I was taking a friend’s young son hunting and was short on room in the cab of my feed pickup, so it got stuck back there.

 

[Russ16]

A little above your $1500 rage but not mic would be the Swarovski Z5i+ in 2-10. I think that would be perfect for this rifle.

 

[Albert GRANT]

@Albert GRANT
If'n y'all can't hit it on ten power an extra little bit won't matter.
Maybe a meopta optica6 in 3-15 power would suit better.
Once you get above ten power you are getting into more bells and whistles like parallax adjustment. It's just more to complete your shooting
Remember in ten power if a target is 400yards away it's like shooting at 40 yards. 400÷10=40.
Bob

Bob, making the shot at 9x wasn't the problem, could have done it at 3x and likely been fine at 100yds. The issue for my eyes now, is judging the animal while looking through the scope. At 9x or lower all the finer details are hard to make out, including a nearly150" 8 point rack apparently. Guess the biggest lesson here is that I really need to remember to take my binoculars with me now, even if I'm not expecting long shots.

 

[Tgood1]

I use the trijicon 3-9 with amber triangle on my .35 whelen, it's great

 

[Hififile324]

I like the Leupold VX3-HD Firedot with Twilight Hunter reticle and CDS. You can hunt anything anywhere with this set up.
Part #
180627

 

[318AE]

+1 on Dchum’s suggestion of a vintage, gloss, German scope of moderate power. The optics clarity is outstanding, the reticle movement precise and they are durable. A smaller objective closer to the bore line.

RJ Renner and turret scope adjustment sounds like something made by committee to me.

Good score on the rifle- well bought….

 

[C.W. Richter]

1" 1-5, 1-6 or 2-7 or 8ish is all that's necessary with that rig. Higher magnification 30mm do look (and are) clumsy, heavier and unnecessary on smaller (or normal-sized and of course mountain) rifles. I've gotten away from 30s excepting adding recoil absorbing heft to larger, longer-range rigs, and still have 1" on some. A 30mm 1 or 2x-6ish is fine in 30 (i.e. the latest Leupold) as it's relatively short. The Trijicon 1-6 w/ green German #4 is very nice ('have one on my 416) but my 35W AI had a 1.5-6 w/ German #4 on it prior to selling. Similar 338-06 has a ballistic plex, lighted reticle compact Burris 3-9 32mm (that topped a .350 Rem Mag prior). My son loves his 1-6 and 2-7 Leupolds (on 375 and 30-06.)

 

[C.W. Richter]

Somewhere I have a mint condition original Weaver, but forget if it's a 3-9 or fixed 4x.? 'Also have a 1.5-6 Weaver Grand Slam (came on a 35W but took it off) that I may put on an AR (it's #4, illuminated w/ low-profile external target knobs.)

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

.30-06 180 gr. 2700 FPS, 100 yard zero - 300 yards -14.4"; 400 yards - 32.2"; 500 yards -58.7"

.35 Whelen 200gr. 2650 FPS, 100 yard zero - 300 yards -15.1"; 400 yards -33.7"; 500 yards -61.4

(Both cartridges shown with Hornady manual fastest loads for each bullet weight.)

Please, for the love of rifles, stop with the "short to medium range" tag!!!!

The Whelen throws 20 grains more bullet - in a larger frontal area projo - at undetectable differences (for field hunting) to the .30-06 180 grain. I guess you could call a .30-06 "medium ranged" if you are sniping at 1,000 yards. However, for hunting at ethical distances - my thought is 400 yards and under - it is right there with the .30-06.

In addition, the trajectory of the projectile is mostly a moot point when one adds in the custom dial system with the Leupolds. Granted, I would not want to try a 500 yard shot with a .45-70 and a CDS dial. 350 yards across a valley with .35Whelen and a CDS dial seems pretty doable to me, however.

Also, Alexaib specifically stated that he wanted MORE magnification due to aging eyes. Therefore, a 1-6x24 or a sleek 2-8x32 would not be enough magnification, and maybe not even a 3-9x40 would make him happy, but his call.

I tend to overlook the Hurons and Credos, having grown up on Accupoints and ACOGs, so good observation GBFLYER. Some viable candidates there as well!

Yes, eye box is important. Leupolds have pretty large eyeboxes. Hunters carry the scope on the rifle 99% of the time, fire it 1% of the time. Scopes as heavy as a pig are just extra PT. If that is your goal, fine. I separate my PT from my hunting.

Hopefully, I have stirred the pot adequately now! YMMV!!!!

@USMA84DAB
You certainly have stirred the pot
Hornady has been known to give load data that urrs in the slow low pressure loads even with their maximum loads.
Go to Sierra or Speer load data and it's an entirely different story
There's no way an 06 can throw a 225 gn projectile at 2,900fps like the Whelen can.
Using real world data the Whelen shoots almost as flat as the 338 win mag .
Bob