Rigby's Big Game vs Heym Express

Which one would you take, Rigby or Heym?


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WAB

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Dear Red Leg....

In many cases it has advantages to life in the United States......

But sometimes, I am happy to life in the center of the old continent.

I can reach Heym, Krieghoff, Merkel, Mauser, Steyr, H&K, Simson, Frankonia, Suhl, Ferlach, Liege, Voere, Beretta, Benelli, Sabatti, VC, FN, Husquarna without a refuelling stop.

Only English gunmakers always were a problem.

The last attempt my grandfather made, he was shot down over the Channel in 1940.

So, Rigby always was out of reach.

;)


HWL

LOL, best comment in the string!
 

Red Leg

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Dear Red Leg....

In many cases it has advantages to life in the United States......

But sometimes, I am happy to life in the center of the old continent.

I can reach Heym, Krieghoff, Merkel, Mauser, Steyr, H&K, Simson, Frankonia, Suhl, Ferlach, Liege, Voere, Beretta, Benelli, Sabatti, VC, FN, Husquarna without a refuelling stop.

Only English gunmakers always were a problem.

The last attempt my grandfather made, he was shot down over the Channel in 1940.

So, Rigby always was out of reach.

;)


HWL
I pray that the Luftwaffe's efficient air sea rescue service successfully pulled him from the channel and your grandmother was not left a young widow. Few people who don't study the history of the war in some detail realize what incredibly long odds a Luftwaffe aircrewman faced to survive it. Unlike US aircrew of the 8th Air Force who were rotated home after 25 missions over the continent (and due to staggering losses in '43 or early '44 still had long odds against survival), a young German pilot flying his first missions over the channel in 1940 would have flown several hundred by 1945 if by some miracle he had survived that long. The current generation has no conception of such sacrifice and duty to country,

And yes, as a young poorly paid Lieutenant in Germany in the late seventies, one of my favorite things was to drive over to Wurzburg and look at the incredible collection of firearms for sale in Frankonia Jagd. I couldn't afford any, but it was a magnificent place to window shop.

One other thing HWL - with what you have to pay for fuel in the center of the old continent, I am glad you don't have to stop very often. :cool:
 

Red Leg

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View attachment 391878


I do not think so Red Leg, and I only say "do not think so" because I do not want to sound terminally definitive saying just "no." This is the 1970's / 1980's version 1.0 of the Heym Express, recognizable by the characteristic bolt shroud/3 position safety; non-machined flat tops; and relatively long trigger guard bow. It was factory fitted with both a behind-the-recoil-lug cross-bolt and a wrist cross-bolt, but no behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt.

Some have criticized its Teutonic look; Chris Sells of Heym USA mischievously characterized it as "the East German tractor" when I was last chatting with him at SCI 2020, and I can see the point in both comments, when compared to the slimmer Martini version 2.0 of the Heym Express.

But a dead-solid reliable rifle it is, and I will confess that, like HWL, I am not insensitive to its rugged and beefy charm...

The newer Heym Martini Express is clearly Anglicized in its stock and steel-work style, and Americanized in its "Winchester-type" safety style, but the core Heym Express action seems to be unaltered (see bolt stop design) and there is no arguing that Heym's machining of the magazine box and feeding rails and ramp to the specific cartridge is a plus, whether one prefers London styled or Continental style M98-style repeaters, all nowadays manufactured/assembled on more-or-less close copies of the original Mauser commercial magnum by corporate entities (Rigby or Blaser) that factually have no direct link - aside from commercial rights to the brand names and ownership of the corporate records - to the original Rigby or Mauser, or by smaller shops (Prechtl or Mayfair are two good examples, one on each side of the Channel) that have no link whatsoever to the legendary brands.

My own vote regarding Heym vs. Rigby vs. Mauser is "whichever you prefer, for whatever reason motivates you." Sure, Rigby has its legend; sure, Mauser also has its own legend, and they always produced the actions that Rigby used ... so Rigby/Mauser would have likely been a more accurate designation; and sure, Heym too has been developing its own modern legend in the last few decades...

But I too have turned the page on the "Mauser magnum" era and now carry a synthetic stocked Blaser R8 PH in the African fields...



Yes indeed. This - plus the loss of some eye relief - is a direct consequence of the current fashionable fad to provide 8x eye boxes i.e. scopes that have an 8 ratio between lowest and highest magnification. The Zeiss Victory HT 1.5-6x42 scope has a 4x eye box, and quite honestly I utterly fail to see why and how a .416 could possibly need more than 6x magnification...
I don't know. I have never seen a European firearm with a small non-matching through-bolt in the wrist that wasn't a repair. But perhaps some were built that way in heavier calibers. I obviously have not seen them all. And as usual in Europe, the work was extremely well done and properly indexed.
 

One Day...

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Has that rifle been repaired at the wrist?

I do not think so Red Leg, and I only say "do not think so" because I do not want to sound terminally definitive saying just "no."

I don't know. I have never seen a European firearm with a small non-matching through-bolt in the wrist that wasn't a repair. But perhaps some were built that way in heavier calibers. I obviously have not seen them all. And as usual in Europe, the work was extremely well done and properly indexed.

I am 100% positive Red Leg. I have handled a number of them in my European days. Never in Wittlich, in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany where I was stationed in the 1980's, but subsequently in France when I started to be able to dream about Africa...

To illustrate my point, please see this pic from https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-416-rigby--r17386-.cfm?gun_id=100632686#lg-4. Clearly the chances for it to be the same rifle HWL bought are slim, yet it features exactly the same small wrist cross-bolt.

1615058073606.png


1615061400899.png

HWL's rifle

Interestingly, there seems to have been several "generations" of this rifle. Digging through my old Kettner catalogs, the first year it appears is 1989. This does not mean that it did not exist before; it may be that Kettner was not retailing it before 1989 - in truth I do not know when it was introduced, and maybe I was mistaken when I said in my earlier post: 1970's / 1980's; maybe it was the 1980's. In any case, in the 1989 Kettner catalog, it does not show this wrist small cross-bolt, but it does show a large behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt and a large behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt.

Kettner 1989 - Heym Safari Express.jpg


It seems that, like CZ with the 550, Heym had several production runs with different cross-bolts configurations.

As illustarted by the following quick screen shots from the internet, there are factory CZ 550 magnum rifles with only one behind-the recoil-lug large cross-bolt;
1615060312787.png


Some with behind-the recoil-lug and behind-the-magazine-well large cross-bolts;
1615059530155.png

Some with behind-the recoil-lug and wrist cross-bolts;
1615059819216.png


Some with only a wrist cross-bolt;
1615059326620.png


And even some without any cross-bolt;
1615060161121.png


I am of course not comparing the CZ 550 with the Heym Express - these two rifles may be functionally equivalent (when the CZ is properly tuned up), but they are worlds apart (Com block quality vs. West German quality........ enough said.......). The point I am making is that it is not uncommon for European rifles to have various cross-bolt configurations, including a small non-matching through-bolt in the wrist, and as illustrated by the Guns International rifle, I am pretty certain that HWL's rifle was not cracked and repaired, but is pure factory, likely from a 1990's production run.

By the way, here are two other Heym Safari Express with the wrist cross bolt:

1615062540936.png

This one was posted by our own cem rona ergin at https://www.africahunting.com/threads/heym-express-600-ne.53412/. It must be yet another production run, because on this one the wrist cross-bolt appears to be blackened steel, while on the GI rifle and on HWL's rifle it appears to be brass.

And for this one the picture is not that great, but the wrist cross-bolt is clearly visible and identical to the others, hence clearly "factory."

1615060948313.png

1615061037749.png

 

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Last edited:

Red Leg

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I am 100% positive Red Leg. I have handled a number of them in my European days. Never in Wittlich, in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany where I was stationed in the 1980's, but subsequently in France when I started to be able to dream about Africa...

To illustrate my point, please see this pic from https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-416-rigby--r17386-.cfm?gun_id=100632686#lg-4. Clearly the chances for it to be the same rifle HWL bought are slim, yet it features exactly the same small wrist cross-bolt.

View attachment 391949

View attachment 391959
HWL's rifle

Interestingly, there seems to have been several "generations" of this rifle. Digging through my old Kettner catalogs, the first year it appears is 1989. This does not mean that it did not exist before; it may be that Kettner was not retailing it before 1989 - in truth I do not know when it was introduced, and maybe I was mistaken when I said in my earlier post: 1970's / 1980's; maybe it was the 1980's. In any case, in the 1989 Kettner catalog, it does not show this wrist small cross-bolt, but it does show a large behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt and a large behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt.

View attachment 391951

It seems that, like CZ with the 550, Heym had several production runs with different cross-bolts configurations.

As illustarted by the following quick screen shots from the internet, there are factory CZ 550 magnum rifles with only one behind-the recoil-lug large cross-bolt;
View attachment 391956

Some with behind-the recoil-lug and behind-the-magazine-well large cross-bolts;
View attachment 391953
Some with behind-the recoil-lug and wrist cross-bolts;
View attachment 391954

Some with only a wrist cross-bolt;
View attachment 391952

And even some without any cross-bolt;
View attachment 391955

I am of course not comparing the CZ 550 with the Heym Express - these two rifles may be functionally equivalent (when the CZ is properly tuned up), but they are worlds apart (Com block quality vs. West German quality........ enough said.......). The point I am making is that it is not uncommon for European rifles to have various cross-bolt configurations, including a small non-matching through-bolt in the wrist, and as illustrated by the Guns International rifle, I am pretty certain that HWL's rifle was not cracked and repaired, but is pure factory, likely from a 1990's production run.

By the way, here are two other Heym Safari Express with the wrist cross bolt:

View attachment 391961
This one was posted by our own cem rona ergin at https://www.africahunting.com/threads/heym-express-600-ne.53412/. It must be yet another production run, because on this one the wrist cross-bolt appears to be blackened steel, while on the GI rifle and on HWL's rifle it appears to be brass.

And for this one the picture is not that great, but the wrist cross-bolt is clearly visible and identical to the others, hence clearly "factory."

View attachment 391957
View attachment 391958
You are obviously correct my friend, and I am glad HWL didn't purchase a repaired rifle sold as new. It does seem a rather obtrusive "fix it before we have to fix it" design decision.
 

Rule 303

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You are obviously correct my friend, and I am glad HWL didn't purchase a repaired rifle sold as new. It does seem a rather obtrusive "fix it before we have to fix it" design decision.

CZ has over the years had a few different cross bolt positions and numbers on heavy recoiling rifles. I suspect Heym did that before there was a problem. Some CZ would split in the wrist, the cure/prevention was to relieve just behind the tang, about a playing card thickness. Until now I had not seen a CZ with a cross bolt in the wrist. I like the idea on a DG rifle but would have preferd a bolt more in line with the front cross bolts in colour and head design. As you have said Red Leg it looks like a last minute "fix it before we have to" addition.
 

Rule 303

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One Day, thanks for your post, I found it most informative.
 

Scott CWO

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Totally agree with Red Leg. Rigby makes a fine rifle intended to be hunted. I am amused by folks who, comparing two fine rifles, in this case Heym and Rigby, feel the need to denigrate one and praise the other. It is very much like US politics these days. Can’t you just accept the fact that they are both fine rifles and the gentleman in question couldn’t have gone wrong with either one?
I’m still learning about all these lovely rifles here on AH and elsewhere. Many thanks to all of you for the education. My past rifles were purchased with the criteria of being a heavily used tool to be used for certain applications within a certain budget. CRF models of brands such as Winchester, Ruger, CZ and Interarms. I guess I have also chosen to spend my recent, hard-earned disposable income on the quality of the the hunting destination more than the firearms I take with me. Perhaps my focus will change now that my trophy list and trophy room is filling up but I’m not sure.

It’s educational to read all the posts about double rifles and high-end bolt actions. Obviously some of these debates boil down to personal preferences in the end, analogous to the age-old debates of Ginger or Mary Ann, blondes or brunettes and Raquel or Sophia to which I say both!
 
Last edited:

Moosemind

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The original Heym Express has a crossbolt at the wrist. It also has a trap door grip cap with front sight tool and extra sight. Three leaf express rear sight, checkered bolt handle, and Recknagel scope bases if any. If you are smaller in statue the long, large forearm may not be to your liking. Actions were made caliber specific. All these features were removed and called improved.
 

HWL

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View attachment 391959
HWL's rifle

Digging through my old Kettner catalogs, the first year it appears is 1989. This does not mean that it did not exist before; it may be that Kettner was not retailing it before 1989 - in truth I do not know when it was introduced, and maybe I was mistaken when I said in my earlier post: 1970's / 1980's; maybe it was the 1980's.


Dear Sir...

Thank you for your very informative post!

On the HeymUSA site, I found the following note:

"Debuted in 2013 and to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the “Express” rifle, German-born, custom rifle builder Ralf Martini was selected to redesign the stock and profile of the rifle."

So, the year of introduction of the Heym Express Rifle should be 1988, and it found its way into the French Kettner Catalog one year later in 1989.

The kind of rear cross bolt in the 1989 Kettner seems to be the early version.

..... and, just for die friends of the german language, we call it a Rückstoßstollenquerverschraubung"!!!

:cool:



HWL
 

7x57Joe

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Ye gads! 32 letters in one word. Can you imagine a spelling bee using German words? I have trouble spelling Schonzeitbüchse and Albuquerque.:ROFLMAO:
 

Professor Mawla

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In practical terms , 8 genuinely doubt that either would leave you unimpressed . Were I opting for either a .416 Rigby or a .450 Rigby , then I would choose the John Rigby & Co. Big Game . Were I opting for a .404 Jeffery or a .458 Lott , then I would opt for the Heym Express .

I did not like Heym’s earlier large bore rifles , which used to employ a plunger type ejector . However , the new ones are pure control round feed .
 

Professor Mawla

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I am 100% positive Red Leg. I have handled a number of them in my European days. Never in Wittlich, in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany where I was stationed in the 1980's, but subsequently in France when I started to be able to dream about Africa...

To illustrate my point, please see this pic from https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-416-rigby--r17386-.cfm?gun_id=100632686#lg-4. Clearly the chances for it to be the same rifle HWL bought are slim, yet it features exactly the same small wrist cross-bolt.

View attachment 391949

View attachment 391959
HWL's rifle

Interestingly, there seems to have been several "generations" of this rifle. Digging through my old Kettner catalogs, the first year it appears is 1989. This does not mean that it did not exist before; it may be that Kettner was not retailing it before 1989 - in truth I do not know when it was introduced, and maybe I was mistaken when I said in my earlier post: 1970's / 1980's; maybe it was the 1980's. In any case, in the 1989 Kettner catalog, it does not show this wrist small cross-bolt, but it does show a large behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt and a large behind-the-magazine-well cross-bolt.

View attachment 391951

It seems that, like CZ with the 550, Heym had several production runs with different cross-bolts configurations.

As illustarted by the following quick screen shots from the internet, there are factory CZ 550 magnum rifles with only one behind-the recoil-lug large cross-bolt;
View attachment 391956

Some with behind-the recoil-lug and behind-the-magazine-well large cross-bolts;
View attachment 391953
Some with behind-the recoil-lug and wrist cross-bolts;
View attachment 391954

Some with only a wrist cross-bolt;
View attachment 391952

And even some without any cross-bolt;
View attachment 391955

I am of course not comparing the CZ 550 with the Heym Express - these two rifles may be functionally equivalent (when the CZ is properly tuned up), but they are worlds apart (Com block quality vs. West German quality........ enough said.......). The point I am making is that it is not uncommon for European rifles to have various cross-bolt configurations, including a small non-matching through-bolt in the wrist, and as illustrated by the Guns International rifle, I am pretty certain that HWL's rifle was not cracked and repaired, but is pure factory, likely from a 1990's production run.

By the way, here are two other Heym Safari Express with the wrist cross bolt:

View attachment 391961
This one was posted by our own cem rona ergin at https://www.africahunting.com/threads/heym-express-600-ne.53412/. It must be yet another production run, because on this one the wrist cross-bolt appears to be blackened steel, while on the GI rifle and on HWL's rifle it appears to be brass.

And for this one the picture is not that great, but the wrist cross-bolt is clearly visible and identical to the others, hence clearly "factory."

View attachment 391957
View attachment 391958
@One Day...
It is really intriguing to see that Heym used to offer the .500 Nitro Express as a chambering option for their bolt action rifles . One learns something new everyday .
 

HWL

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Ye gads! 32 letters in one word. Can you imagine a spelling bee using German words? I have trouble spelling Schonzeitbüchse and Albuquerque.:ROFLMAO:
My best friend ever was a Major of the American Air Force....

I hunted with him for decades....

He told me,..... the Germans have a word for everything!!!

Einschuss, Ausschuss, Anschuss, Abschuss......

:cool:

HWL
 

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They have. The Duden says 300k - 500k basic forms and up to 18Mio when taking into account rarely used words and combinations.
 

HWL

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The announced Heym Express .416 Rigby arrived... :A Banana:

It is not "flawless" as announced, but has some little dents and scratches in the wood, I easily can rework.

Proof marks of 1990....condition not bad for a 30 years old rifle.

But now I have the problem Heym versus Ruger....

DSC04883.JPG


Ok, the decision is not that exclusive because no "Rigby" is involved.

But....keeping them both or selling one...witch one?

Converting one into a .450 Rigby?

....to mount a scope or a red dot on the Heym or iron sights only?


HWL
 

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Hi HWL,

Nice it has arrived. I would keep them both.
Take the Heym to a good gunsmith and let do him the stock. If he’s good the stock will like a new one. I would mount an optical sight. Have fun with it.

Best regards
Achim
 

7x57Joe

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Nice rifle! It has been said, life is just one problem after another. :D My first impression was to say keep the Heym but, I don't know how they feel in the hand, so I probably would keep the one which felt the best.
Iron sights makes a rifle feel lively if your eyesight allows but, I would have to put optics on to allow me the precision for hunting and a red dot doesn't hinder the handling much.
 

HWL

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Because there is no chance to hunt or even go to a range and have a shot, I dry cycled the Ruger countless times.

The action operates smooth, the Heym does not in this way.

Probably, I have to have some petting sessions with the Heym, too.....

At any rate, I will shoot them both to see how accurate they are, and how I can manage recoil.


HWL
 

HWL

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But @HWL, unlike in your grandfather’s days, you now have the Channel Tunnel. You can easily drive to Rigby, H&H, etc!! Now you don’t even have to risk your life flying their with all them anti aircraft guns pointing at you!! ;)

Regards,
I've heard of this tunnel,...but I still believe in Luft(waffe)hansa....

There are no Spitfires any more, since we bomb Britain with Mercedes, BMW's and Audi's


:cool:

HWL
 

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