Rigby Double Rifle

[rookhawk]

I have several other LC smiths that I love, but they aren’t Damascus barrel. Might reach out to you about a double I’ve got that I don’t know what to do with. Exposed hammers, side lock, I think Damascus barrel. Not very good condition, not sure if it’s worth having work done to it or just hang it on a wall. View attachment 684489

Cool that its a sidelever. I'd have to get more info to know if it is worth fixing up. It looks off face but could just be a shadow.

A serious collector or shooter does not ascribe any credance to fluid steel or damascus being good/bad. Damascus guns can fetch extraordinary sums and can be just as durable as their fluid steel counterparts with 2.5" shells.

You have to look at original quality, current condition, and you must know the minimum wall thicknesses of the gun. That is what determines its safety, value, and suitability for use.

I've probably shot 100,000 rounds of nitro shells through damascus barreled guns and have killed thousands of pheasants with the same. The notion that damascus = bad is a lie spread by gun dealers when buying a gun to lower prices, but they never say that when selling the same gun.

 

[Rifleman97]

Cool that its a sidelever. I'd have to get more info to know if it is worth fixing up. It looks off face but could just be a shadow.

A serious collector or shooter does not ascribe any credance to fluid steel or damascus being good/bad. Damascus guns can fetch extraordinary sums and can be just as durable as their fluid steel counterparts with 2.5" shells.

You have to look at original quality, current condition, and you must know the minimum wall thicknesses of the gun. That is what determines its safety, value, and suitability for use.

I've probably shot 100,000 rounds of nitro shells through damascus barreled guns and have killed thousands of pheasants with the same. The notion that damascus = bad is a lie spread by gun dealers when buying a gun to lower prices, but they never say that when selling the same gun.

Yeah I wasn’t meaning to speak poorly of Damascus! Just that the ones I shoot happen to not be Damascus

 

[PCC600]

Yeah I wasn’t meaning to speak poorly of Damascus! Just that the ones I shoot happen to not be Damascus

Damascus barrels only went out of favour because they were labour intensive and expensive to make compared with the steel barrels which could be mass produced .

 

[Nick1982]

Using the H4831 98 grains with a darcon filler and a 480 grains hornady bullet. 50 meters.

 

[Rare Breed]

Hallo, new to the forum here.
I recently came upon a very old double rifle and just wanted to know some opinions about it.
Like is it safe to shoot since it is so old.
However it is in remarkable good an solid state for its age.
And is ammo readily available.
Does anyone recomend a good load for it?
It is a 1902 make 450 nitro express.
Thanks in advance.
Greetings Nick

View attachment 659739View attachment 659740

I have one just like it built in 1905

 

[Rare Breed]

The last pictures are holding promise. The tubes say cordite and 450gr which is good. It's leaning more towards a nitro express loading.

However, we don't know if the gun is mechanically sound and we don't know for certain that a scammer didn't add that info to the tubes. (no Nitro proof marks should be cautionary).

I would get the ledger from John Rigby for 100 pounds to corroborate that it is a 450 Nitro Express 3-1/4".

It could also be a nitro-for-black powder loading (nitro powder at black powder velocities) but the 450gr bullet makes that less likely.

If you can decipher what else is said on those tubes we can weigh in on what the gun claims to be. (we can't proclaim what it has become, however)

That’s exactly what I did even before I bought my almost identical rifle. I called Rigby, gave them the serial number and from their ledgers I got the guns certification of build with all dimensions along with who the gun was built for cost me $125. I then bought the gun and without even shooting it sent to JJ who made few repairs, regulated it for me with my preferred loads and installed my red dot RMR

 

[Rare Breed]

I got to look at the Rigby ledger sheet from the OP. It is a Nitro Express gun made by W&C Scott for Rigby. It calls for cordite and a 480gr load, so its likely that it is 450 Nitro Express 3.25".

I asked the OP to measure length of pull (to see if the sights are going to line-up to original) and to verify the tubes are still 28" (so that it can regulate with a cordite-copy load using cup and core bullets).

If all that checks out, I recommended he do a $3k resto on it, then get Ken Owen to build him some loads provided he can find Woodleigh softs and solids that are cup and core.

Spot on…cost me $3400 to have JJ restore and regulate

 

[deewayne2003]

But that’s only about 717 shots worth (if avg 3031 load for .470). What if you run out!

That thought is burning in my mind, I've already used about half of that 8lbs jug.

Thankfully IMR3031 is fairly common and available.

My favorite all around powder is RL22 and I developed a .470 ne load that regulates and takes 117gr per cartridge - If I had stuck with that load I would be screwed since I haven't see RL22 available in years.

 

[Wahoo]

That thought is burning in my mind, I've already used about half of that 8lbs jug.

Thankfully IMR3031 is fairly common and available.

My favorite all around powder is RL22 and I developed a .470 ne load that regulates and takes 117gr per cartridge - If I had stuck with that load I would be screwed since I haven't see RL22 available in years.

That sounds painful!

 

[Nick1982]

I have one just like it built in 1905

foto?

 

[deewayne2003]

That sounds painful!

It's not fun I'll tell you that.... IMR3031 is the clear winner and recommended by both Ken Owen and JJ

 

[rookhawk]

It's not fun I'll tell you that.... IMR3031 is the clear winner and recommended by both Ken Owen and JJ

If I remember correctly for 470NE, 3031 produced either 60 or 68 pounds of felt recoil at around 77gr of powder. Imr4831 and RL22 require about 106grains and produce around 102 pounds of recoil.

 

[Surgeon1]

Heym 470NE 88B I use IMR3031 79.5gr and an open cell foam filler plug with a Swift A-frame prints 4 shots 2" at 50y. (2090fps) Got 2 boxes of Federal with the gun, 2260fps recoil is like double with 10" group. With Swift Break Away solids 78gr IMR3031 gives same results as A-frames.

Heym 88B 450-400NE RL15 at 66.4 gr and 2gr Dacron and a Swift A-frame 400gr at 2110fps gives <2"
4 shot at 50yds (65.1 gr for the BreakAway)

Heym 88B 500NE that I've had a long time is a work in progress!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

If I remember correctly for 470NE, 3031 produced either 60 or 68 pounds of felt recoil at around 77gr of powder. Imr4831 and RL22 require about 106grains and produce around 102 pounds of recoil.

You normally don't make mistakes...
The 106 gr load produces 21% more recoil more than the 77 gr load. Significant no doubt!

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

 

[Rare Breed]

foto?

 

[RIGBY]

Hallo, new to the forum here.
I recently came upon a very old double rifle and just wanted to know some opinions about it.
Like is it safe to shoot since it is so old.
However it is in remarkable good an solid state for its age.
And is ammo readily available.
Does anyone recomend a good load for it?
It is a 1902 make 450 nitro express.
Thanks in advance.
Greetings Nick

View attachment 659739View attachment 659740

Beautiful! Thank you!

 

[Rare Breed]

I think that the majority of double rifle owners do not reload their cartridges, but I don't know how that work in practice, especially for the owners of used rifles. The best solution is certainly to have a lifetime supply of the ammunition with which the weapon was regulated, but a problem remain by old rifles.

As far as recoil is concerned, I did not notice on my two big bore double rifles too much of a difference between the cartridges loaded with fast burning and those loaded with slow burning powder. I also tend to use fast burning powders, despite the need for fillers, but the controversial discussions have always given me cause to think about.

Interesting my friend I have found the opposite …most DR owners do reload especially with older vintage doubles as many of us have.

 

[PCC600]

I always reload for my DRs . Off the shelf never regulates properly for older rifles . It just comes down to me a copy of “Shooting The British Double Rifle” , a chronograph , the correct weight bullets ( what it says on the barrels) and powders recommended in Graeme Wright’s book. Just keep loading and shooting until the target looks right . Then write it all down in a book with the speed .For a new rifle you can ask maker to regulate for a specific ammo maker . It will be good - until they stop making the ammo .

 

[grand veneur]

Interesting my friend I have found the opposite …most DR owners do reload especially with older vintage doubles as many of us have.

We certainly don't operate in the same world. Not a negativ meaning, but the USA is not representative of the entire planet when it comes to rifles, and certainly not our Forum either. The majority of hunter I know acquired their more or less expensive double rifle with the appropriate ammunition. Especially those which buy very expensive double rifles reload very rarely their cartridges und also post rarely on Forums. Those who bought a used rifle usually know which ammunition it was regulated for, and very few people worldwide buy very old, used double rifles that can only be made accurate by loading the cartridges for it.