Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[Muskox]

We almost got shot in

I would argue that Ken Hamm <sp?> and the creation museum has done more to push people away from faith than Anton LeVay and Aleister Crowley.

We almost got shot in the parking lot of the creation museum. We lived in Kentucky for a very short while when I retired from the military. The creation museum was on my wife's short list of places she had to visit. It is quite the place (spectacle, abomination, miracle? depending on your dogma).

Anyway we walked in there, a 39 year old man, a 35 year old women and two children aged 1 and 3. I kept an open mind.

There be dragons!

The creation museum at the time (circa 2014, I don't know about the past 12 years I won't go back), was a pretty grand Disneyesque version of the creation story from the bible. Amazing artwork, tons of huge dioramas depicting stories from the bible. Quite the place.

I shut my mouth, no reason to offend someone in their own home.

After all we are Christians but not Protestant.

We did the tour, looked at the Ark, looked at the museum, there was a guy from Alaska singing songs about Christian life. Kind of a folk singer. Our children were doing what 3 and 1 year olds do, they were singing and dancing enjoying the show.

Someone complained about us, and we were escorted to leave. Followed by armed guards to our vehicle, and escorted out of the place by more armed guards.

An un Armed family of 4, treated like we had taken a crap on the alter, and then smeared it on one of their dragons.

Can't recommend it in anyway shape or form.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

i infer from your statement that you believe the actions of the sun as observed in Joshua happened just as written. That would mean that the sun, which is traveling on it's orbit around the Milky Way at millions of miles per hour, STOPPED. Additionally the Earth which is also traveling on its orbit around the sun at thousands of miles per hour STOPPED. All of those objects and inhabitants on the surface of the Earth and the waters of the seas also STOPPED with no effects of the inertia. THEN at the end of the hour, EVERYTHING re-accelerated to the original speeds with no adverse effects.
You REALLY believe that hapened?

Yes. God can do anything He wants with His creation.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This has been an interesting thread. Really shows just how prevalent old earth theory and evolution is among those who profess Christ.

 

[Muskox]

This has been an interesting thread. Really shows just how prevalent old earth theory and evolution is among those who profess Christ.

Fairly sure in your bible and mine, only God can pass judgement.

 

[Ray B]

Yes. God can do anything He wants with His creation.

I don't know if I should cheer for you or feel sorry for you- it certainly does show a child-like faith and after all, Jesus did say bring the children to Him.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Fairly sure in your bible and mine, only God can pass judgement.

He is the ultimate judge. There’s a difference in types of judgement. If it’s done out of pride or hypocrisy like Hogpatrol accused me of earlier it’s not good. We judge things all the time. My problem is not with unbelievers. They don’t know any better. My problem is with those who claim to be Christians and mislead others with falsehoods.

I’m not perfect and can get fired up as you can see.

If everything a person says is antithetical to what the Bible teaches then you have to make a judgement call and call it what it is. 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 touches on divisions and why they happen and are necessary.

 

[Ridge Runner]

False assertion

Not false assertion when one looks into the religious control the Roman Catholic Church had over the various early empires and kingdoms. Especially during the middle-ages.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I don't know if I should cheer for you or feel sorry for you- it certainly does show a child-like faith and after all, Jesus did say bring the children to Him.

Makes me no difference.

 

[Muskox]

He is the ultimate judge. There’s a difference in types of judgement. If it’s done out of pride or hypocrisy like Hogpatrol accused me of earlier it’s not good. We judge things all the time. My problem is not with unbelievers. They don’t know any better. My problem is with those who claim to be Christians and mislead others with falsehoods.

I’m not perfect and can get fired up as you can see.

If everything a person says is antithetical to what the Bible teaches then you have to make a judgement call and call it what it is. 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 touches on divisions and why they happen and are necessary.

Cheers that was civil.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Not false assertion when one looks into the religious control the Roman Catholic Church had over the various early empires and kingdoms. Especially during the middle-ages.

In the modern context it most definitely is. We have thousands of manuscripts and thousands of painstaking man hours have been put into getting it right.


The Catholic “church” has been off the rails for centuries at this point. I agree on that part of the argument.

 

[RLD]

This has been an interesting thread. Really shows just how prevalent old earth theory and evolution is among those who profess Christ.

That should not come as a surprise to you. I hope.

When we study the question of religion and evolution/age of the earth in the United States, a very unique religious environment, we learn that only 11% of Americans belong to a denomination that actually holds against evolution and an older earth approach. Many more Americans, but still a minority, don't believe in evolution, when their denomination either accepts it or doesn't take a position against it.

What it shows is an education gap. Many denominations do a very poor job of educating both their clergy and their parishioners about what their position is on evolution.

One of the clearest examples is amongst hispanic Catholics, where a very large number (but still a minority) reject evolution in favour of young earth creationism. Catholicism actually holds that evolution, including human evolution is a truth. The Catholic church, as it serves hispanic communities, has done a poor job of educating its clergy and parishioners about this issue.

I would be curious to know what denomination you are a member of, if you are a member of one, as if it holds young earth creationism to be true, it is party of a very small minority.

 

[RLD]

In the modern context it most definitely is. We have thousands of manuscripts and thousands of painstaking man hours have been put into getting it right.


The Catholic “church” has been off the rails for centuries at this point. I agree on that part of the argument.

Which bible do you suggest contains the perfect word of God?

 

[Aaron N]

And people think the answer to public schools is MORE religion…

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

And people think the answer to public schools is MORE religion…

Public schools (and universities) are part of the problem. Teaching unprovable scientific theories and ideologies as fact.

 

[RLD]

Public schools are part of the problem. Teaching unprovable scientific theories and ideologies as fact.

You think evolution and evolutionary theory is unprovable?

Evolution, as the great American scientist Gould noted is happening whether you like it or not.

"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from apelike ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

 

[Ray B]

One of the problems with eternal life is can anyone imagine how unbearable it would be to live millions of years and having someone such as @Wishfulthinker580 for a next door neighbor?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

That should not come as a surprise to you. I hope.

When we study the question of religion and evolution/age of the earth in the United States, a very unique religious environment, we learn that only 11% of Americans belong to a denomination that actually holds against evolution and an older earth approach. Many more Americans, but still a minority, don't believe in evolution, when their denomination either accepts it or doesn't take a position against it.

What it shows is an education gap. Many denominations do a very poor job of educating both their clergy and their parishioners about what their position is on evolution.

One of the clearest examples is amongst hispanic Catholics, where a very large number (but still a minority) reject evolution in favour of young earth creationism. Catholicism actually holds that evolution, including human evolution is a truth. The Catholic church, as it serves hispanic communities, has done a poor job of educating its clergy and parishioners about this issue.

I would be curious to know what denomination you are a member of, if you are a member of one, as if it holds young earth creationism to be true, it is party of a very small minority.

The education system at all levels is indeed a problem in that they teach millions/billions of years as fact when it is unprovable secular theory.

The Southern Baptist Convention has not made an official statement on what it believes. That’s the denomination that I most closely relate to and am a member of. That said, I’ve never said that there aren’t other denominations that are just fine and that I have minor issues with. Many people seem to think evolution/old earth isn’t a primary issue, I obviously see it differently. The authority of Scripture is a primary issue. SBC is very individualistic unlike the Catholics. Very sad that that official catholic doctrine.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

One of the problems with eternal life is can anyone imagine how unbearable it would be to live millions of years and having someone such as @Wishfulthinker580 for a next door neighbor?

Keep it up, I don’t mind.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

You think evolution and evolutionary theory is unprovable?

Evolution, as the great American scientist Gould noted is happening whether you like it or not.

I do not. Micro evolution, yes. Macro evolution, no.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Which bible do you suggest contains the perfect word of God?

There are plenty of translations that are just fine. That said, I do not view the apocrypha as canon or certain changes made (like the catholic work they did with the Ten Commandments). The crux of the issue at hand is reading into the Bible one’s presuppositions, biases and ideologies (thereby twisting it) instead of letting Scripture speak.