Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[rookhawk]

Interesting. If supposed early hominids are our ancestors and were soulless, how or when was a soul acquired?

That’s adding a whole lot of stuff to the Bible that isn’t there. Or did I skip over the part that said Adam and Eve weren’t the first humans, just the first spiritually cognizant ones.

See how problematic old earth theory is? It’s impossible to get it from Scripture. You have to read so much stuff in it’s ridiculous.

On top of that, if understanding of the meaning of death and good and evil are a prerequisite for being human then a person isn’t a human until they’ve reached the age of accountability? Whatever age that is for each individual. What about those who are mentally impaired? Who were born that way?

I’d strongly contend that God created a perfect world, absent of death. That means all death. Can’t have death before the world fell and can’t have death before sin.

Its there and its supported by science. Adam was the first "man". Man is different than animal. What power does man have that is different or superior to other life forms? Absolutely nothing. Man is a physically inferior lifeform than dozens or thousands of others on this planet.

Genesis says Adam was the first "man". All you need to do is ascribe what makes a man and what makes him made in the image of God.

My inventory based on natural law and scripture supports that one ingredient that Adam had is "knowledge of good and evil".

Many Christian faiths try to explain away, apart from overt scripture that does not exist, what happens to the unborn, the infantile, and the imbecile that never came to know Christ. Most theologies invent a reasonable explanation that they did not reach the "age of accountability". That is nowhere in scripture, but it is reasoned by an understanding of a merciful creator.

My interpretation of Genesis is a far smaller leap than the common leap of "age of accountability" to explain where a four year old that didn't profess Christ goes due to untimely death.

Everyone before Adam wasn't a man as I define what it means to be man versus beast.

It is interesting how the early scriptures also discuss beasts of burden working in the fields that appear to be hominids, but they weren't "men" either. Hmmm. Sounds like hominids that lacked "the special sauce" that makes us Men made in the image of God.

 

[Red Leg]

And here we see the superiority complex among some Calvinists that often raises its head. And I have an arrogant viewpoint?

I was responding, in all good humor and in good-natured kind, to the exact tone used by @rookhawk, with whom I do not always agree but always respect.

 

[Red Leg]

Interesting. If supposed early hominids are our ancestors and were soulless, how or when was a soul acquired?

That’s adding a whole lot of stuff to the Bible that isn’t there. Or did I skip over the part that said Adam and Eve weren’t the first humans, just the first spiritually cognizant ones.

See how problematic old earth theory is? It’s impossible to get it from Scripture. You have to read so much stuff in it’s ridiculous.

On top of that, if understanding of the meaning of death and good and evil are a prerequisite for being human then a person isn’t a human until they’ve reached the age of accountability? Whatever age that is for each individual. What about those who are mentally impaired? Who were born that way?

I’d strongly contend that God created a perfect world, absent of death. That means all death. Can’t have death before the world fell and can’t have death before sin.

Or perhaps, based on knowledge at the time, the Bible left important bits out of the process of creation. To me, that does not conflict with my belief in a creator in the least. That Omniscient God gave us our intellect with the full understanding (remember, he is all knowing) that we would use it to more fully understand the majesty and breath of his creation than man was capable of doing 2500 - 3500 years ago depending upon when most of the Old Testament was written.

Assuming I understand you correctly, to say there was no death prior to humankind is to deny proven knowledge. To create a conflict in belief where there should not be one. To do so, requires one to ignore the rise and collapse of millions of different species, none of which cared a whit about anything but the next meal or hiding place. That hundreds of millions of years happened, and no amount of pointing at Old Testament scripture "unhappens" it.

What I do think can be deduced from the Old Testament is that a world existed before mankind that was totally innocent of notions of good or evil. That is a belief that is totally in keeping with fully accepted scientific discovery.

As @rookhawk noted every female homo sapien traces their genetic ancestry to a mitochondrial DNA Eve who lived sometime between 150 and 200 thousand years ago. Every male is traced to a Y chromosomal Adam who existed 120 - 156 thousand years ago. Obviously, these two people lived in different epochs among other humans, but think of the testament to Gods creation that we all carry their genetic traces in our DNA. What is astounding to me is how close to correct those ancient writers were.

 

[rookhawk]

I was responding, in all good humor and in good-natured kind, to the exact tone used by @rookhawk, with whom I do not always agree but always respect.

In the essentials unity, in the non-essentials liberty, in all things charity. Peace and good will to fellows on the same journey.

 

[Red Leg]

In the essentials unity, in the non-essentials liberty, in all things charity. Peace and good will to fellows on the same journey.

"In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas" Robertus Meldenius - a 17th century Lutheran no less. As true today as it was then.

 

[tarbe]

Its there and its supported by science. Adam was the first "man". Man is different than animal. What power does man have that is different or superior to other life forms? Absolutely nothing. Man is a physically inferior lifeform than dozens or thousands of others on this planet.

Genesis says Adam was the first "man". All you need to do is ascribe what makes a man and what makes him made in the image of God.

My inventory based on natural law and scripture supports that one ingredient that Adam had is "knowledge of good and evil".

Many Christian faiths try to explain away, apart from overt scripture that does not exist, what happens to the unborn, the infantile, and the imbecile that never came to know Christ. Most theologies invent a reasonable explanation that they did not reach the "age of accountability". That is nowhere in scripture, but it is reasoned by an understanding of a merciful creator.

My interpretation of Genesis is a far smaller leap than the common leap of "age of accountability" to explain where a four year old that didn't profess Christ goes due to untimely death.

Everyone before Adam wasn't a man as I define what it means to be man versus beast.

It is interesting how the early scriptures also discuss beasts of burden working in the fields that appear to be hominids, but they weren't "men" either. Hmmm. Sounds like hominids that lacked "the special sauce" that makes us Men made in the image of God.

I believe Adam had the breath of life breathed into his nostrils, and this made him a living soul...differentiating him.

Of course, this happened before he ate of the forbidden fruit and gained knowledge of good and evil.

 

[tarbe]

Question: If you are an old earth believer and identify as a Christian you believe in eons of disease and death. How do you reconcile that believe with Scripture’s assertion that sin and death entered in with Adam?

I don't think physical death is in view here.

Adam did not die physically the day (moment) he ate the forbidden fruit. He "died" spiritually in the sense that he lost fellowship with Yahweh...

In this sense, Yeshua gives us new life, eternal life, when we believe the gospel. One Federal Head gave us death (spiritual) and one Federal Head gives us eternal life.

This understanding does not require the absolute absence of any physical death prior to Adam.