Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[Wishfulthinker580]

So on the sixth day, dinosaurs(because they’re land animals) and humans were created, and co-existed together. Then ten generations later Noah was warned, dinosaurs were loaded onto the ark along with every other beast, survived the flood, and then went extinct (in an extremely short time) without ever being written down (writing was beginning around this time in Mesopotamia and Egypt), or being depicted in cave art?

Also, were Adam and Eve Homo Sapiens?

Yes and Adam and Eve were no different than any other human being. Other than how they were created, longevity etc. But biologically and anatomically, yes.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

You do realize that the literal measurements of the ark would not be able to hold even two of every kind of bird in the country of Costa Rica? Literalism doesn't work. Even every animal endemic to the middle east wouldn't fit. Even if we just say a pair of each "Kind" (canid, feline, cervid, psittacine, falconiform, cetacean, mollusc, etc.) is all that was on the ark, it wouldn't fit. Literalism fails.

When the term "the whole world" was used in Hebrew, it was a general expression "the known world". The latest research indicates a worldwide catastrophe around 11,600 years ago, likely repeated asteroid strikes that led to tremendous hellscapes, coupled with super heated glaciers causing instantaneous flooding over much of the world. The Sahara as a jungle became the desert we know in less than 100 years. The nano diamonds and trace platinum found worldwide in that geologic layer supports it.`

You’re simply incorrect. That’s like saying all the extant dog breeds wouldn’t have fit when the vast majority are recent results of man’s intervention in breeding.

Again, you’re leaning on your own understanding and what man says then what God says and because of that calling Him a liar..

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Someone said God did it in 6 days. Unless we have decided to become Muslims and believe that every word in the bible, that has been translated, edited, debated, and reedited for 2600+ years in the case of the Old Testament is somehow an exact transcription from God. I take the view that the important point is that God did it, not the timing. The one discourages belief among educated people while the latter encourages belief.

I choose to believe what the Bible says because it says it’s true. You act as if the Bible was haphazardly put together by a bunch of simpletons. Nothing could be further from the truth. I get it though, it’s an easy out to justify disbelief.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

It supports what I am saying....if you are mindful to follow the basic rules of hermeneutics.

I disagree.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This is where a great debate can be had: the relativity of time.
It is my understanding that a "day" could be the 24 hours modern humans think of, or it could be a thousand years. Time does not have the same meaning to God as is defined by humans.

Except we know linguistically exactly what was meant by “day” and the fact that in the creation account it lays out exactly what a day was. Read it for yourself. Exactly what many who are in this conversation should do.

 

[fourfive8]

History is constantly being revised and re-written as new info comes to light. The human footprints found in the gypsum flats of the Tularosa NM basin are currently dated at 21,000-23,000 years old based on radiocarbon dating of vegetable matter associated with sediments the prints are in. Very conclusive and accurate data that has revised current, known human history in North America.

Also adds a fun and realistic dimension to the 20th Century Fox/Blue Sky production of the Ice Age movies. Can’t help a chuckle when thinking of the hard luck shrew

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I’m just a fisherman I don’t have the advanced degrees that some of you gentlemen do so I really feel under qualified to way in on the theological debate going on but there’s one obvious point that I think some are missing.

The bible is the story of creation through to the story of the end of times and is the word of got transcribed by man to the best of their ability. Isn’t it entirely possible the the omnipotent parent (god) dumbed the story down enough so that the flawed with limited understanding child (man) got the important message without getting bogged down in the details we were/are never supposed to or able to understand.

It’s far easier for a parent to tell a child I turned the light switch on ( let there be light) then to explain the electrical grid and the generation of electricity.

You get the jist of the message in the beginning god created light in the end the book of revelations ect and that to me is the importance of the word. Also unless any of us are fluent in dead languages we’re all relying on translations of translations who’s to say the word “day” wasn’t miss translated from period when it was revised over the last centuries?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

If a person is a Christian. I mean an actual Christian, that means you already believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You believe in a God that you can’t see, feel or hear. You believe that He is one God, existing as three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You believe that He is eternal: the same in the past, the present and the future. You believe that He has always existed and will never cease to exist. You believe that He sent His Son to earth, that His Son became flesh, was born of a virgin, was both fully God and fully man, lived a perfect sinless life and died a sinners death, but God raised Him to life again and now he’s sitting at the right hand of the Father. Because He was a perfect sacrifice His death was sufficient for salvation for all who believe in Him and you believe that He is the only source of salvation.

You believe that there is life after death and there are two destinations, Heaven and Hell. You know that you are a sinner deserving of Hell because you have sinned against the God you believe in but since you believe in His Son and what He did for you and have repented for your sins God has forgiven you of your sins and He will give you a home in Heaven when you die.

You believe that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. If you believe all that in truth and faith, you can believe that same God who made the entire universe, named all the billions of stars (or however many they think there are), Who knitted you in your mother’s womb and knows the number of hairs on your head then you can believe that He miraculously created the entire universe and everything in it in six literal days.

I get it, all of that is totally and completely bizarre (downright crazy) to the unconverted, secular person who leans on his own understanding and what man says. Who has not had their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit.

As a Christian you are called to believe in God’s Word and what it says. It is literal where it is literal and it is figurative where it’s figurative but it is true.

Most, if not all, of the arguments used against my viewpoint in this thread are tired, recycled and played out. Millions of years and evolutionism are recent arrivals and people try to cram them into the Bible and make them work together. It is not possible.

Also, God does not look upon us favorably when we are worried about whether or not the unbelieving world thinks we’re crazy or not.

Rookhawk says belief in the Biblical account of creation and a young earth is not essential. I contend that it is. Either God was lying or He wasn’t.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

And what I’m trying to convey and what you seem to be side stepping is that unless you read Sanskrit and various other dead languages and have access to the original tablets and scrolls that were originally taken down than your relying on 3rd 4th or 5th hand accounts and translations which are subject to the errors of man no matter how honest and honourable there intentions.

From my understanding of the book and my Sunday school teaching it’s believing in god and doing right by him that is important. John 3:16 says who ever believes in him shall not die but have eternal life it doesn’t say you have to believe word for word a book that is subject to the errors of man.

 

[Tanks]

Again, you’re leaning on your own understanding and what man says then what God says and because of that calling Him a liar..

Well, you seem to take what man says most of the time, otherwise you would not set foot on a plane to go to Africa. After all, if God meant men to fly he would have given them wings.

Seriously though, it seems a bit contradictory to trust science and technology in one's daily life and then ignore a whole body of scientific work because of writings in what is basically a book of fable that was written by multiple committees.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

When I was in grade school as a young child our teacher set us all in a circle and we played the whisper game, she whispered fruit roll up in the first child’s ear and by the time it got the other end of 22 children the words she got back was fuzzy bunny. If 22 innocent children can make that kind of mistake in the span of minutes all speaking the same language is it such a stretch to believe there could be errors of translation of thousands of years and multiple languages in the bible. In the end we got roll ups not bunnies so the original promise was delivered upon and that’s the part that mattered.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Well, you seem to take what man says most of the time, otherwise you would not set foot on a plane to go to Africa. After all, if God meant men to fly he would have given them wings.

Seriously though, it seems a bit contradictory to trust science and technology in one's daily life and then ignore a whole body of scientific work because of writings in what is basically a book of fable that was written by multiple committees.

That I do. Up until what they say conflicts with what God says. You’re really showing your pre and misconceptions about Christians by attributing beliefs to me that I don’t hold. Not the first time you’ve done it either and they’ve all been stereotypical. Better to be thought a fool for the sake of the truth than be a coward in the eyes of God.

That’s fine. Not written by multiple committees… Written by multiple people (finished before the end of the first century A.D.) and painstakingly made canon over multiple centuries by multiple committees made up of believers who were extremely concerned with getting things right while discarding anything that wasn’t Spirit inspired. It was life and death whether they got it right or not, in the eternal sense.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

When I was in grade school as a young child our teacher set us all in a circle and we played the whisper game, she whispered fruit roll up in the first child’s ear and by the time it got the other end of 22 children the words she got back was fuzzy bunny. If 22 innocent children can make that kind of mistake in the span of minutes all speaking the same language is it such a stretch to believe there could be errors of translation of thousands of years and multiple languages in the bible. In the end we got roll ups not bunnies so the original promise was delivered upon and that’s the part that mattered.

See that’s a false narrative that folks lean on to try and discredit the Bible. We have thousands of manuscripts and thousands of man hours of work put into avoiding just that problem

 

[deewayne2003]

Maybe it’s time for a religious discussion thread?

 

[Newboomer]

Maybe it’s time for a religious discussion thread?

Yeah. This doesn't really coincide with Africa hunting.

 

[Tbitty]

Except we know linguistically exactly what was meant by “day” and the fact that in the creation account it lays out exactly what a day was. Read it for yourself. Exactly what many who are in this conversation should do.

2 Peter 3:8 is an example for the reason I said a day can be 1000 years.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

The whole political thread doesn’t coincide with African hunting that ships already sailed

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

2 Peter 3:8 is an example for the reason I said a day can be 1000 years.

That’s one that people often misuse by taking out of context. It’s figurative. Read the entire chapter. Time does not matter to God. The creation account in Genesis clearly lays out exactly what one day is.

 

[deewayne2003]

The whole political thread doesn’t coincide with African hunting that ships already sailed

I disagree, just look at how politics is currently affecting African hunting specifically…..

Canceled hunts because of travel concerns
Higher fuel prices making flights and shipping increase even more.

I’ll also go as far as saying the countries trying to ban trophy imports are the same countries that have piss poor military capability.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

And what I’m trying to convey and what you seem to be side stepping is that unless you read Sanskrit and various other dead languages and have access to the original tablets and scrolls that were originally taken down than your relying on 3rd 4th or 5th hand accounts and translations which are subject to the errors of man no matter how honest and honourable there intentions.

From my understanding of the book and my Sunday school teaching it’s believing in god and doing right by him that is important. John 3:16 says who ever believes in him shall not die but have eternal life it doesn’t say you have to believe word for word a book that is subject to the errors of man.

The ultimate irony is one saying they believe in God but don’t believe everything He said. All Scripture is God breathed and men wrote as the Holy Spirit moved them. His Word will not return void. You honestly believe that the God who did everything I wrote out would let His Holy Word become corrupted? That’s a low view of God