Protruding Primers 9.5 x 57 MS

[7x57Joe]

Indeed, it is a fine looking rifle!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Sorry Brian

I missed your initial questions

No problem.

Hopefully those measurements will help reloading experts on the forum to provide some definitive answers regarding your chamber, fired cases, and 'stuck' chamber casts.

I have an M1910, also a takedown model, and have been fortunate to have had no 'issues' at all with reloading. I have used fresh .35 Whelen brass, cut to length and drawn through an RCBS two die set with excellent results. My reloads have always cycled and functioned flawlessly, being near identical duplicates of DWM531.

Here are some things you likely know already:
- That's one tidy reloading bench / workspace you've got there!
- That's also a lovely M1910 Takedown model as originally offered by Steyr, with exception of aftermarket recoil pad and bolt mounted aperture sight.

Image from 1939 Stoeger (then sole U.S. importer of MS) catalog.

Your rear sight appears to be the 'three leaf express sight', a 'cost option' often seen on M1924/25 models.

Stoeger called the M1924 and 'M1925' the 'High Velocity Rifle'. Note three leaf sight.

From 1935 Steyr catalog.

The '1293.27' stamp, along with 'NPv', on your MS indicates the 1,293rd arm to be 'nitro proofed' at Vienna in 1927.

The 'buttpad' is an unfortunate modification. It originally would have had a steel trapdoor buttplate with storage for cleaning rods and two spare cartridges therein:

Mine has the 'special folding peep sight' shown at right.


That's an interesting bolt mounted peep sight on yours. Who made it? It looks somewhat similar to the Lyman 1A, and perhaps not as elegant as the 'Sportarget', but similar.

Here's Granddad, John F. Easton (at center), with M1910 takedown:

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the catalog photos. It is super interesting!

Love the photos of your grandfather and his gun, something that should be truly treasured.

In regards to the reloading bench...that is unfortunately my OCD in full swing. That is just the tip of the iceberg, you should see the rest of it.
The peep sight in the picture is actually the latter sight you mentioned. The Parker Hale Sportarget. The recoil pad is a original Silvers pad. Unfortunately I have no idea when it was replaced.

I will load up some more rounds in the already fired cartridges and see how it goes.

Cheers

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the catalog photos. It is super interesting!

Love the photos of your grandfather and his gun, something that should be truly treasured.

In regards to the reloading bench...that is unfortunately my OCD in full swing. That is just the tip of the iceberg, you should see the rest of it.
The peep sight in the picture is actually the latter sight you mentioned. The Parker Hale Sportarget. The recoil pad is a original Silvers pad. Unfortunately I have no idea when it was replaced.

I will load up some more rounds in the already fired cartridges and see how it goes.

Cheers

Glad you liked the catalog images. The photo of 'Johnny's Cat' is, indeed, cherished as is the cased M1910 Takedown. The pith helmet and Leopard pelt (field cured, I'm sure) rotted away decades ago but I still have the claws.

You're fortunate to have the Sportarget. It's a fine bit of kit, I'm sure.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to repeat your same reloading regimen until that primer issue is resolved. What is the base to shoulder measurement on unfired handload? I'm still wondering if you had pushed the shoulder down while loading?

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

I didn’t size the cases as they were new and within spec. So for the first loading I didn’t push the shoulder down too far.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the catalog photos. It is super interesting!

Cheers

Here are full images of pages 50, 51, 52 of the 1939 Stoeger:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

I didn’t size the cases as they were new and within spec. So for the first loading I didn’t push the shoulder down too far.

It wouldn't take much. As you'll notice, the shoulder of 9.5X57 is very slight.

When I pushed the shoulders down on raw .35 Whelen cases to make 9.5X57, it only took one light pass through the dies.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Frederik,

Love your rifle! I saw once a 1910 take down here. Beautiful as yours!
Good luck with the cases !

CF

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

Hi Frederik,

Love your rifle! I saw once a 1910 take down here. Beautiful as yours!
Good luck with the cases !

CF

Thanks Clodo

 

[MS 9x56]

One thing I found in reloading for my1905 in 9x56 is that you can't rely on the drawings. You have to make adjustments based on YOUR rifles measurements. It sounds like you are close to getting a handle on it. Once you get cartridges loaded I would recommend only neck sizing when reloading. Just a recommendation take it for what it's worth. My parting comment is once you take it out and make meat with it all that trouble will be worth it. There is no other rifle in the world that feels so good in the hands and points, swings, and fires as well as these mannlichers. Then there's the history and aura they convey. Welcome to a very exclusive club and good hunting.

 

[RayAtkinson]

This is an old thread but you seem to have whatever amount of headspace the the primer protrudes, normally end of story, but looking at the fired case indicates the neck is way to long ad that shows on the indented end..start with having the headspace checked and that's not expensive, if not the trim the necks to specs and give'er ashot or two..see what happens.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

I didn’t size the cases as they were new and within spec. So for the first loading I didn’t push the shoulder down too far.

How did the M1910 loading turn out?

I've just looked over this thread and still wonder if someone has recut the chamber of your rifle to give that too - long measurement of your fired cases.

On a slightly different note, has anyone here used the Nosler Solid 260 grain (#29755) .375 in an M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer? If so, what seating depth did you use and did they feed well?

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

Hi Brian

Here is some photos I took recently with my borescope. I think someone cleaned out the chamber. I have not shot it since the first session.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi Brian

Here is some photos I took recently with my borescope. I think someone cleaned out the chamber. I have not shot it since the first session.

Ouch.

I was so lucky with my M1910 Takedown. Not only a precious inherited heirloom, it was evidently unmolested and unaltered (with the exception of a properly fitted claw mount Gerard scope) from its 1922 proof date to the time ol' Grand Dad bought it and its fitted case about 1931 and has certainly not been altered nor abused since.

Before my first reloading for it, I had researched what little could be found in those pre internet days, ordered RCBS dies, ran raw .35 Whelen brass through them and cut to size, loaded to specifications and netted near perfect replicas of DWM531 when stuffed with (now nearly extinct) Hornady 3715.

Pre internet 'google'

They fit and cycled flawlessly.
Having read several cautions, horror stories, and legends about widely varying chamber dimensions and headspace in 'prewar' MS, I was nervous - then delighted to see that the fired brass showed no problems whatever.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hey, Bob Nelson...
Have you ever used the Nosler Solid 260 grain in an M1910 Mannlicher?

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

Hi Brian
I am not too worried. This should not affect functioning too much.
Cheers

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi Brian
I am not too worried. This should not affect functioning too much.
Cheers

Good deal.

Watch those shoulders, though. If they're jumping forward the cases will likely stretch at the web.

 

[MS 9x56]

Owning a pre war MS can lead to a graduate course in reloading. It can also lead you to appreciate the non- pariele stalking rifle ever made. There are very few things that have never been improved upon. The winchester 94, the Mauser 98, the 303 enfield battle rifle, the MAnnlicher Schoenauer 1903,1905, 1908, and 1910, the German MG 42, the Kalashnikof AK 47, the buck 110 folding knife. It is a very short list. Live and learn. But most of all learn to appreciate perfection.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Owning a pre war MS can lead to a graduate course in reloading. It can also lead you to appreciate the non- pariele stalking rifle ever made. There are very few things that have never been improved upon. The winchester 94, the Mauser 98, the 303 enfield battle rifle, the MAnnlicher Schoenauer 1903,1905, 1908, and 1910, the German MG 42, the Kalashnikof AK 47, the buck 110 folding knife. It is a very short list. Live and learn. But most of all learn to appreciate perfection.

Indeed.

The only reason I took up reloading initially was to feed the M1910.

I was into black powder at the time, so it was sort of a natural progression. There are whole other levels of involvement when firing the loads that you have crafted yourself as opposed to just feeding 'store bought' to one's rifle.


From the 1939 Stoeger, and every bit as true today:

 

[John Telford]

Hi guys

Thanks for all the insights and advice, I must apologize for not updating this thread. To be honest , I have not had a chance to go and tackle the Mannlicher issue yet. Life happens and other things get in the way. The bottom line is that I need to do a chamber cast.
The primers were protruding 0.022” and not 0.0022” as originally posted.
The problem is most likely an headspace issue. I am not willing to get it rebarreled so the only real option is to fireform the brass by making a false shoulder so it headspaces on that shoulder. Looking into getting a Sinclair expanding die.

Interestingly enough , I had primers protrude(not to the same extent) on another batch of Quality Cartridge brass in 9x57 Mauser. Makes one wonder.

Cheers

Hi Fredrich,
I had the same issue with my 9.5x57MS. Sarel Esterhuisen the Doyen of MS Rifles in SA advised me to neck size only after once firing the cases. I use new Quali-cart cases that I got from Midway. I shoot Woodliegh and 220 gn Impala solids.