Power level..How do you ever rationalize going back down?

[Forrest Halley]

Having choices makes it fun.

Fully agree...just not necessary for a successful hunt.

Choices are good, but when it's on the line, familiarity is better. Unfamiliarity always causes me to second guess. I've put everything else up for the remainder of the season. The Lott worked and so it's staying for now, but loaded with 500 grainers in hopes of saving a bit more meat next time.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Choices are good, but when it's on the line, familiarity is better. Unfamiliarity always causes me to second guess. I've put everything else up for the remainder of the season. The Lott worked and so it's staying for now, but loaded with 500 grainers in hopes of saving a bit more meat next time.

So when you shoot a deer with a 458 Lott, I guess instead of loading the critter into the back of a pickup truck, you should probably use an 18 wheeler. Gotta keep the out of proportion in proportion.

 

[Tom Leoni]

Assuming that for most practical purposes there no such thing as overkill, here may be a few reasons to scale down in power. In no particular order:

1 - Fitting particular hunting conditions--e.g., I wouldn't take a .470 NE to hunt pronghorn in open country

2 - Ammo/components availability

3 - The pleasure of shooting another rifle in your collection, assuming that you have several in different chamberings

4 - Trying out a new load or bullet

5 - Cost

6 - Avoiding overpenetration, which is a factor in certain situations (admittedly not too many)

7 - Taking a short vacation from recoil--for whatever reason (medical comes to mind)

8 - Hunting near a residential area and not wanting to be obnoxious

9 - Anticipating a high number of consecutive shots, such as on a night hog hunt

10 - Tied to point 1, if (say) whitetail and squirrel may both be on the menu, I also wouldn't take a .470 NE.

I can think of a few more reasons... But this perhaps can suffice?

 

[Tom Leoni]

The curse of would-be-snipers...

There, I said it!

I do not often refer my relationship with Huntershill in my posts, purposefully I might add, but this time I will because it is germane to the discussion.

To make a long story short, and based on private candid discussions in the PH shacks of the 6 safari camps that Huntershill own and operate, with over a dozen PHs: for every 600 or 800 yards killing shot on YouTube, there are many, many - let me repeat: MANY - shots fired. Thank the good Lord a lot of these shots are misses, but a number are also hitting animals at random from shot jaws to gut wounds.

In the best cases, another half dozen rounds bring the animal down from sheer lead weight. In the worst cases, the animal escapes and dies miserable later. In many cases, a precious hunting day, or two, is lost tracking a wounded animal.

In summary, aside from the rather uncommon clean kill at 600 or 800 yards, the animal suffers entirely needlessly. This is unethical. Period.

Please, spare me rushing to bang the keyboard and to lick the stamp for the hate mail, I personally ring 12" steel at 1,000 meters on a fairly regular basis with my civilian clone Mk13 rifle (Accuracy International chassis with long action Remington 700 receiver and .300 Win Mag 5 groves Remington Defense barrel), so I know darn well that it can be done, but there is very little in common between taking out the Kestrel and ballistic App, locking front bipod and rear monopod, doping the wind on a flat well known range, shooting without "trophy pressure" at an immobile target, etc. ... and hunting.

Yes, there are clients doing all this in Africa, and doing it well, but they are few and far between, and even if in my own mind they are robbing themselves of the best part in their safari: the hunting, as long as they do it well, I recognize that it is their right. But with them, the PH's challenge is NOT to hunt, but to find the shooting-range-like setting that will allow such shots. This is rarely the case, although it can be done from hillside to hillside in the Eastern Cape, but Lord oh Lord, the wind factor shooting across canyon or small valley...

And yes, there are also the clients who think they can, but cannot, and litter the landscape with wounded animals... Long range shooting is not so much about the hardware, which is easy to purchase, but about the technical knowledge, training and practice, which few have...

The curse of the 6.5 Creedmoor...

To add insult to injury, because darn few can actually carry all day a heavy weight appropriate caliber sniper rifle (.300 to .338), and because darn few enjoy the recoil of a hunting-weight rifle of .300 to .338 caliber shooting prone, we now see a flood of low-recoil, long-range TARGET rifles.

I have nothing personally against the 6.5 Creedmoor (it is certainly as good as my 1903 6.5x54 MS which needs no introduction), but WHEN WILL FOLKS FINALLY UNDERSTAND THAT A 6.5 CREEDMOR BULLET AT 800 YARDS DOES NOT CARRY THE ENERGY NECESSARY TO KNOCK DOWN RELIABLY A KUDU?

The problem with these paper-punchers, that have genuine 600 to 800 range potential, is that even if there is a lethal hit, larger animals (Kudu, Wildebeest, etc.) may not even register the hit, and it is generally too far to hear the slap of the bullet. So what should the PH do: follow every animal shot at, on the potential that it may have been hit?

Shooting or hunting?

Yes, Red Leg, CoElkHunter, Kevin Peacocke, mark-hunter, uplander01, etc. are obviously right: there is no need for 600 to 800 yards shooting in Africa, and yes, this is shooting, not hunting.

Does this mean that BDC scopes are bad? Not necessarily. I now use BDC scopes because they allow more precise bullet placement even at 200 or 300 yards, not shooting at the proverbial "boiler room" or 6" to 12" (depending on animal size) "vital area" but shooting precisely at the top of the heart.

This is especially beneficial when hunting small PG and MG (Mountain Game), Vaal Rhebok comes to mind. Even the .257 Wby 100 gr drops 5" at 350 yards when sighted for a + or - 3" MPBR...

This is also especially beneficial when hunting PG with heavier one-rifle-safari calibers such as the .375 H&H 300 gr, which suffer a bit from rainbow trajectory. Sure, "over the back" hold works, and even "one foot over the back" hold can work, but there is little arguing that turning the BDC to 325 and drilling precisely the top of the heart of a shy Eland is better...

Word. Amen. And Bingo.

Only correction that I propose:

"...there is no need for 600 to 800 yards shooting in Africa and yes, this is shooting, not hunting."

 

[Red Leg]

Choices are good, but when it's on the line, familiarity is better. Unfamiliarity always causes me to second guess. I've put everything else up for the remainder of the season. The Lott worked and so it's staying for now, but loaded with 500 grainers in hopes of saving a bit more meat next time.

I am not being personally critical, but such thinking is something I truly don't understand.

I am not sure that you are picking the right variable when "it's on the line." To me, the best choice is the best rifle, bullet, and sighting system for the task at hand. I can think of no conditions in North America and perhaps only two in Africa where the .458 Lott would best meet that criteria.

Discounting winged species, in the last decade, I have killed game with .375 H&H, .338 Win Mag, 9.3x62, .318 WR, 300 Win Mag, 30-06, .270, .275 (7x57), 7x65R, 5.56, .22lr and 12 bore Paradox. I currently have a R8 set up with the .257 Wby barrel should a good buck stray onto the place in the next few weeks (I can shoot to 260 yards from my current stand). I am absolutely confident and competent with each of those rifles and calibers and have never lost a game animal during that period. More importantly, I knew that I had an optimum choice in hand for the broadest possible conditions on that particular hunt. I personally find that far more comforting and confidence building when "it's on the line" than lugging an elephant rifle on a deer hunt.

 

[One Day...]

... I am absolutely confident and competent with each of those rifles and calibers and have never lost a game animal during that period. More importantly, I knew that I had an optimum choice in hand for the broadest possible conditions on that particular hunt. I personally find that far more comforting and confidence building when "it's on the line" than lugging an elephant rifle on a deer hunt.

Amen!

My own list is quite similar: .375 H&H, .340 Wby, .300 Wby, 7 mm Rem, 7x65R, .270 Win, .257 Wby, 6 mm Rem.

My wife will be using her 9.3x62 R8 barrel this year on Buff, and my .458 Lott R8 barrel is my scoped option, along my double .470, for Elephant and Hippo on land. Sure it would also be that on Rhino, but this is forever outside of my financial reach. Oh well

Beside, should fate ever place this type of disposable income in my hands, considering what a Rhino "hunt" is these days, I would rather spend it on Marco Polo, Argali, Markhor or Tahr in their native environment

PS: the .458 Lott R8 barrel would also not be entirely out of place as a safety backstop when my wife shoots her Buff, should the .470 not make this trip...

.... I currently have a R8 set up with the .257 Wby barrel should a good buck stray onto the place in the next few weeks (I can shoot to 260 yards from my current stand) ...

Now we're talking

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Pascal... Exceedingly well stated sir. Thank you for that over lunch time read.

 

[Red Leg]

Amen!



Now we're talking

I could do it with a bit less sturm und drang with the 7x65R, but I hate having it standing in the corner of the kitchen.

 

[M Whitley]

My opinion:

I did research after my first safari and had Horizon Firearms build me a custom 375 H&H rifle. I figured spend the money once and have one rifle I can hunt anything essentially anywhere out to 300 yards comfortable.

I have shot Oribi to Buffalo and leopard with the same rifle. I know how the gun shoots and am comfortable with it. I use it in NA as well to deer hunt.

Especially on a PG safari I would rather be dead on accurate and under gunned than the other way around.

30 +/- African animals both PG and DG and my longest shot has been 200 yards give or take.

 

[Art Lambart II]

So back to the original question, how to step down in power. I have hunted deer with a 30 carbine, 32 Win Special, 35 Remington, 270 Win, 30-06 and the 35 Whelen. Except for the 30 carbine they are all great deer rounds but since I started using the 35 Whelen the rest of those guns have never seen the whitetail woods. Why, because I prefer to shoot the Whelen, its that simple. I also agree with all the posters that prefer to match their round to the game they are hunting. I do the same thing, but I match the bullet to the game and not the round I use (DG excluded). Now if I had a DG hunt coming up, I might be inclined to use my 416 Rigby on all my other hunts just for the practice but when my DG hunt was over its back to my 35 Whelen.

 

[One Day...]

I am with you on this Art and the questions "how do you rationalize going back down?"; and "what is your current favorite?" (I add "current" because favorites change), or "what do you prefer today?" are different questions

I suspect we all agree on this

Lord knows those of us privileged to own several rifles, generally with calibers overlap, often pick up a rifle for a hunt just because it feels good that day. I do. Actually, my current favorite is the R8, with whichever barrel and load make rational sense for the hunt, but my recent uses of 7x65R and 6 mm Rem, after a 10 or 20 years gap, came from rediscovering these in the back of the safe, after writing about them in single shot Kipplauf and mountain rifle threads on AH, and it was a great pleasure to revisit past passions

 

[CoElkHunter]

Again, a very interesting thread. I believe many of us who have been bitten by the larger bore genre in rifles, have purchased them with the dream of hunting DG in Africa one day. Owning and shooting that big bore gets us one dream closer to that DG hunt. The reality is that most will never see that dream come to fruition. So, the big bores are used on local game while dreaming of Africa. The whitetail shot with the Lott, or the pig taken with a .470 double rifle or an elk taken with a .416 Remington or Rigby. Sure, the large bores are way overkill for these hunts, but let that dream of an African DG hunt live on, if only with that "big bore" rifle sighted in on that whitetail buck.

 

[WAB]

Rifle set up is as important a selection consideration for me as caliber. I am using a Ruger No 1 in .275 Rigby topped with a Swaro Z6 1-6x24 EE on the farm for whitetail. Shots are typically 100-150 yards. Last year I shot a buck with the 9.3x62 Highland Stalker, not because of the caliber but because of the scope. I knew the target buck would only show in the last 2 to 3 minutes of legal shooting and that rifle is set with a scope that adds 3 to 4 minutes to my shooting window.

On a recent Coues deer hunt I used a .325 WSM. The choice had nothing to do with the caliber. It is a tough, synthetically stocked rifle topped with a Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x42 BRH. I am comfortable to 500 yards with the rig which is a realistic need in the desert mountains.

I don’t see myself ever pulling the Lott out of the safe for anything in NA.

One note on being comfortable with multiple rifles. I keep a printout of the sight in log in my safe room. I can pick up any rifle and know it’s zero range and trajectory at a glance. I don’t own rifles without excellent triggers which is a huge aid to moving across different platforms.

 

[John Wasmuth]

9.3x62 286 gr Hornady 59.3 gr power pro 2000 mr. 150 yards bang flop. I don’t see any reason to go back to smaller Calibers. Very little meat damage compared to the lighter guys.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Where's @crs and his photos of all the animals here he's taken with his double rifles? Ha!

 

[Doug3006]

Do what I did. Lug a 458 Lott on a walking safari for a few days. Then switch to a 375 H&H for the next 9 days. You’ll have your answer.

 

[sureshot375]

I’ve gone the complete opposite direction. If someone called me tonight and said we were going on a rifle deer hunt tomorrow, I’d probably grab the .223. But then again I did shoot a deer with the double a few years ago.

 

[Backyardsniper]

Do what I did. Lug a 458 Lott on a walking safari for a few days. Then switch to a 375 H&H for the next 9 days. You’ll have your answer.

I thought about.that at the range today. I was shooting my 460 and I thought man this thing is gonna suck to carry all day long, but I also usually carry longrange type rifles on elk hunts so it is a degree of suck that I am used to.

 

[Doug3006]

I thought about.that at the range today. I was shooting my 460 and I thought man this thing is gonna suck to carry all day long, but I also usually carry longrange type rifles on elk hunts so it is a degree of suck that I am used to.

I‘ve come to appreciate lighter rifles so long as the caliber is matched to the game. My latest love is a Ruger #1 in 303 British. I took a doe on opening weekend with it. What a great gun for the tree stand! Short and handy.

 

[Backyardsniper]

#1 in a 303. Man I bet that is a sweet rig. A little classy too. Very nice