Politics

[Big_Easy]

You truly are looking for a fight most every post on this forum. People like you love throwing a bit of internet wisdom out there hoping to generate drama. Yes you can say what you want. Just know the 1st amendment does not protect you from looking stupid.

Thank you for that red herring, or perhaps it was a straw-man argument? Anyways, I think you're just butt-hurt that you're anti-freedom of speech and I called you on it.

 

[roverandbrew]

I mean just because you can pass an audit, doesn't mean everyone can.

Pentagon fails financial audit for 8th year in a row

DOD is the only one of the government’s 24 major agencies never to pass.

www.militarytimes.com

The problem is a large portion of DOD derives reported values and information for major asset and liability categories largely from non-financial systems. Systems such as inventory and logistics accounting. These systems were designed to support reporting requirements for maintaining accountability over assets and reporting the status of federal appropriations rather than preparing financial statements in accordance with GAAP. The way data synchronizes in some audits does not properly depict reality.

 

[roverandbrew]

Thank you for that red herring, or perhaps it was a straw-man argument? Anyways, I think you're just butt-hurt that you're anti-freedom of speech and I called you on it.

Butt hurt on freedom of speech? I know I have done more than my fair share to protect freedom of speech. We can publicly disclose and compare our efforts.

 

[Big_Easy]

The problem is a large portion of DOD derives reported values and information for major asset and liability categories largely from non-financial systems. Systems such as inventory and logistics accounting. These systems were designed to support reporting requirements for maintaining accountability over assets and reporting the status of federal appropriations rather than preparing financial statements in accordance with GAAP. The way data synchronizes in some audits does not properly depict reality.

Then we should spend some of the $1 Trillion per year from the DOD's budget and update and modernize some of these systems.

 

[Ray B]

With regard to fraud in DoD contracts- my BiL worked for several decades as an engineer for Lockheed. He admits there likely was some fraud BUT the most salient wasteful expenditure came in the form of mandatory minority hiring- people hired because of their ethnic background whose only duties were to show-up and stand around in order to fill a quota.

 

[Tanks]

I wonder if the Gunny was once with a SURC (small unit riverine craft) unit within 1st or 2nd FSSG? About a year after “just cause” we had one of those new units down with us training with the SBU guys at the naval station.

A few had their scuba bubbles. I think maybe they had to eventually complete scuba school to stay in the unit? But I don’t know for certain. They were the only guys in combat arms that wore it but weren’t “dual cool”

I asked him. He said it was part of their teams’ “Scout Swimmers” course.

Linked an article about it.

https://www.mcipac.marines.mil/Media-Room/News/Article/531718/marines-qualify-as-scout-swimmers-during-course/

 

[rookhawk]

Based on the emotion-based responses about VA benefit scamming, it appears I’ve actually discovered the third-rail of the politics thread. The data is absolutely shocking in case you haven’t been following the shift over the past few years.

As of this year, 34% of separated veterans now collect disability benefits from the VA. So either we’re putting our military service people in far greater peril today than ever before, or something else is going on. About 90% of disabled veterans are enlisted.

As of June 2026, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is processing and granting military disability claims at an all-time record pace



Historic Milestones: The VA completed a record 2.5 million disability compensation and pension claims in fiscal year (FY) 2024, a 27.0% increase over the previous year. In FY 2025, that number skyrocketed to an unprecedented 3 million claims



Current 2026 Pace: The VA is on pace for another massive year, hitting 2 million completed claimsby June 1, 2026. The agency hit its first 1 million completed claims on February 2, 2026—the fastest timeframe in history.



High Approval Rates: Veterans applying for benefits are more likely to be approved than in previous decades, with the VA reporting an overall 64.6% grant rate, which climbs to 75% for PACT Act-specific claims



Growing Recipient Base: The total number of rated veterans receiving disability compensation has surpassed 6.3 million, increasing by approximately 338,000 individuals in the past year alone.



Surge in Maximum Ratings: Currently, 29.15% of all rated veterans have a 100% total disability rating. This is a notable jump from just under 26% a year prior, meaning nearly one-third of all veterans in the system now receive the maximum statutory benefit.



Long-Term Trends: Census and agency historical reviews show that roughly 30% of all living U.S. veterans have a service-connected disability, exactly doubling the 15% rate recorded in 2008. Post-9/11 veterans are significantly more likely to apply for and receive benefits, with a 31% service-connected rate compared to an 18% chance for the same demographic groups in 2008.

 

[SaintPanzer]

OK, I can answer that one, just based on experience.

When I enlisted, way back in the Reagan Administration, the only people who applied for benefits were those that were truly down hard. Something catastrophic happened, and they might apply. The rest of us just "sucked it up". It wasn't that the injuries weren't qualifying, it's that unless you were really in trouble, no one applied. Part of this was an approach to life (we tended to not ask for help if we could get by without it... call it pride, or sheer intestinal fortitude, or stupidity, or whatever) and part was simply a lack of knowledge. We assumed that the benefits were for those cases who really needed them... usually guys with a Purple Heart, or something like that.

By the time we got to GWOT, people were encouraged to apply, and formally instructed in how to apply. This includes actual classes in the mandatory "Transition Assistance Programs" required by Congressional mandate. That explains the "record pace".

Now, about the "more likely to be approved part". Remember the "encouraged to apply" part? This includes several state agencies (I can personally vouch for Texas and Idaho) working with the veteran to make sure their paperwork is in order. Also, remember that formal (and required) training in the Transition Assistance Programs? A better documented case equals a more likely to be approved case.

Additionally, electronic records make it far easier for the average person to recall service medical records. Actual records of something that happened with dates showing the injury occurred while in service also correlates to a greater likelihood of being approved.

Something else to think about: you've noted that "roughly 30% of all living U.S. veterans have a service-connected disability, exactly doubling the 15% rate recorded in 2008. Post-9/11 veterans are significantly more likely to apply for and receive benefits". I'm not sure if you've been taking notes, but I can tell you as someone who served from 1986 to 2016, there was far more realistic training (and thus opportunities for non-combat, yet service related injuries) and a great deal more "up close and personal" contacts with bad guys who meant you harm, whether you in a combat MOS or not (and how many combat train guys also bumped into IEDs?) between, say, to pick a random selection of dates where I was actively serving, between 2002 and 2016 than between 1986 and 2001. So not only were we more likely to have service connected injuries, we were very well trained (and formally encouraged) in how to apply.

In other words, and all emotions aside, the statistics you're throwing out should only be surprising to someone who is not keeping up with current events. That doesn't mean fraud does not exist... it's never difficult to find someone who's trying to game the system. It's simply stating that throwing out numbers without possible explanation for the numbers shows either an effort to find statistics that support a predetermined conclusion, or simple intellectual laziness and incuriosity as to what could explain the statistics.

 

[rookhawk]

OK, I can answer that one, just based on experience.

When I enlisted, way back in the Reagan Administration, the only people who applied for benefits were those that were truly down hard. Something catastrophic happened, and they might apply. The rest of us just "sucked it up". It wasn't that the injuries weren't qualifying, it's that unless you were really in trouble, no one applied. Part of this was an approach to life (we tended to not ask for help if we could get by without it... call it pride, or sheer intestinal fortitude, or stupidity, or whatever) and part was simply a lack of knowledge. We assumed that the benefits were for those cases who really needed them... usually guys with a Purple Heart, or something like that.

By the time we got to GWOT, people were encouraged to apply, and formally instructed in how to apply. This includes actual classes in the mandatory "Transition Assistance Programs" required by Congressional mandate. That explains the "record pace".

Now, about the "more likely to be approved part". Remember the "encouraged to apply" part? This includes several state agencies (I can personally vouch for Texas and Idaho) working with the veteran to make sure their paperwork is in order. Also, remember that formal (and required) training in the Transition Assistance Programs? A better documented case equals a more likely to be approved case.

Additionally, electronic records make it far easier for the average person to recall service medical records. Actual records of something that happened with dates showing the injury occurred while in service also correlates to a greater likelihood of being approved.

Something else to think about: you've noted that "roughly 30% of all living U.S. veterans have a service-connected disability, exactly doubling the 15% rate recorded in 2008. Post-9/11 veterans are significantly more likely to apply for and receive benefits". I'm not sure if you've been taking notes, but I can tell you as someone who served from 1986 to 2016, there was far more realistic training (and thus opportunities for non-combat, yet service related injuries) and a great deal more "up close and personal" contacts with bad guys who meant you harm, whether you in a combat MOS or not (and how many combat train guys also bumped into IEDs?) between, say, to pick a random selection of dates where I was actively serving, between 2002 and 2016 than between 1986 and 2001. So not only were we more likely to have service connected injuries, we were very well trained (and formally encouraged) in how to apply.

In other words, and all emotions aside, the statistics you're throwing out should only be surprising to someone who is not keeping up with current events. That doesn't mean fraud does not exist... it's never difficult to find someone who's trying to game the system. It's simply stating that throwing out numbers without possible explanation for the numbers shows either an effort to find statistics that support a predetermined conclusion, or simple intellectual laziness and incuriosity as to what could explain the statistics.

A reasonable response.

What I’m seeing with my own eyes is the 1-2 punch that Musk and DOGE have documented in other benefit programs. It’s not one program, its a gateway to a lifestyle.

The young veterans I see around town aren’t just on VA disability, they also get some sort of fast-track approval for SSDI. So they get $4000 a month from VA tax free for life, then another $1700 SSDI. The problem then is they cannot have meaningful income, so they get a wife or girlfriend to shill for their actual side-hustle income or work in cash. (Local anecdote: a guy such as this was convicted of robbing the high school hockey booster’s club for around $10k as his particular “side hustle”)

I have no problem at all with generous (more generous even) benefits for veterans, but like all programs these days it appears exploitation is more culturally acceptable than ever before. The WaPo had a substantive expose on these activities as well.

The VA recently announced they are using AI to re-adjudicate 1.1 million claims to better detect fraud, a good step in the right direction.

We just recently interred my BIL with full military honors and he was literally and legally 100% disabled in every sense of the word, so I’m certainly aware there is real need out there. Like any system to satisfy need, it appears that fraud and gaming of the system is also present. The stats concern me, my personal anecdotes probably serve as further confirmation bias or confirmation, depending on how you see things.

 

[spike.t]

Your arrogance and “expertise” on things you have zero knowledge or experience never ceases to amaze me. However, with those comments you removed any and all doubts I may have had that you are not a complete and total tool.

That gave me a good laugh when I woke up

 

[spike.t]

Thank you for that red herring, or perhaps it was a straw-man argument? Anyways, I think you're just butt-hurt that you're anti-freedom of speech and I called you on it.

Fk you come out with some shit.....but that post is pure liquid manure......

 

[spike.t]

Butt hurt on freedom of speech? I know I have done more than my fair share to protect freedom of speech. We can publicly disclose and compare our efforts.

Should be interesting....totally one sided...but interesting

 

[Altitude sickness]

I wonder if the Gunny was once with a SURC (small unit riverine craft) unit within 1st or 2nd FSSG? About a year after “just cause” we had one of those new units down with us training with the SBU guys at the naval station.

A few had their scuba bubbles. I think maybe they had to eventually complete scuba school to stay in the unit? But I don’t know for certain. They were the only guys in combat arms that wore it but weren’t “dual cool”

Being a “Scout Swimmer” does not entitle the Marine to wear the Scuba badge. Though it’s not uncommon for them to inappropriately buy them and wear them.

That Scuba Pin is for US Marines that finished the 8 week combatant course at the U.S. Navy dive school in Panama City Fla.

 

[Betterinthebush]

Being a “Scout Swimmer” does not entitle the Marine to wear the Scuba badge. Though it’s not uncommon for them to inappropriately buy them and wear them.

That Scuba Pin is for US Marines that finished the 8 week combatant course at the U.S. Navy dive school in Panama City Fla.

Right. Don’t understand why you’re quoting my post with the correction.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Simply to add more info to your post. Not to imply you were wrong.

 

[Red Leg]

OK, I can answer that one, just based on experience.

When I enlisted, way back in the Reagan Administration, the only people who applied for benefits were those that were truly down hard. Something catastrophic happened, and they might apply. The rest of us just "sucked it up". It wasn't that the injuries weren't qualifying, it's that unless you were really in trouble, no one applied. Part of this was an approach to life (we tended to not ask for help if we could get by without it... call it pride, or sheer intestinal fortitude, or stupidity, or whatever) and part was simply a lack of knowledge. We assumed that the benefits were for those cases who really needed them... usually guys with a Purple Heart, or something like that.

By the time we got to GWOT, people were encouraged to apply, and formally instructed in how to apply. This includes actual classes in the mandatory "Transition Assistance Programs" required by Congressional mandate. That explains the "record pace".

Now, about the "more likely to be approved part". Remember the "encouraged to apply" part? This includes several state agencies (I can personally vouch for Texas and Idaho) working with the veteran to make sure their paperwork is in order. Also, remember that formal (and required) training in the Transition Assistance Programs? A better documented case equals a more likely to be approved case.

Additionally, electronic records make it far easier for the average person to recall service medical records. Actual records of something that happened with dates showing the injury occurred while in service also correlates to a greater likelihood of being approved.

Something else to think about: you've noted that "roughly 30% of all living U.S. veterans have a service-connected disability, exactly doubling the 15% rate recorded in 2008. Post-9/11 veterans are significantly more likely to apply for and receive benefits". I'm not sure if you've been taking notes, but I can tell you as someone who served from 1986 to 2016, there was far more realistic training (and thus opportunities for non-combat, yet service related injuries) and a great deal more "up close and personal" contacts with bad guys who meant you harm, whether you in a combat MOS or not (and how many combat train guys also bumped into IEDs?) between, say, to pick a random selection of dates where I was actively serving, between 2002 and 2016 than between 1986 and 2001. So not only were we more likely to have service connected injuries, we were very well trained (and formally encouraged) in how to apply.

In other words, and all emotions aside, the statistics you're throwing out should only be surprising to someone who is not keeping up with current events. That doesn't mean fraud does not exist... it's never difficult to find someone who's trying to game the system. It's simply stating that throwing out numbers without possible explanation for the numbers shows either an effort to find statistics that support a predetermined conclusion, or simple intellectual laziness and incuriosity as to what could explain the statistics.

If I may offer an additional bit of math to add to the startling for some realization there has been an increase in disability applications. Since 911, approximately 4.4 million Americans participated in uniform in the Global War on Terrorism. The last time the military experienced such a surge of combat related employment of the armed forces was Vietnam. As you note the mid-seventies through 2001 was a different universe.

Secondly, medical science has advanced just a tad since the Second World War. The Agent Orange fiasco following the Vietnam War put a bright light on the potential risks of employing certain technology without fully understanding its effects. As a result, the VA has been far more proactive in determining certain environmental or location factors are presumptive of long term medical issues than in less informed decades. As Agent Orange also demonstrated, it is not only the right thing to do, but is also likely less expensive and socially divisive than battling class action suits by one's own veterans.

That, doing the right thing with respect for veterans, was also been behind the continuing effort by DOD to ensure that veterans' health issues were recognized and addressed. As you note, when I retired in 2003, no one was interested in my skin cancer, permanently perforated eardrum, or chronic breathing issues. By the time I applied for review two decades latter, repeated exposure to Middle Eastern sun, artillery concussion, and a pollutant rich atmosphere carried significant presumptive weight in an evaluation.

Finally, the existence of Veteran Support Officers in many states have been a Godsend to veterans trying to navigate the bureaucracy of the VA claims process. Applications that formerly were rejected on technicalities are now successfully adjudicated.

So yes, @rookhawk , thankfully something else is finally going on, and you can not imagine how frustrating it is to a veteran to have someone with zero direct experience in the underlying issues pointing a finger and assuming fraud.

 

[Betterinthebush]

If I may offer an additional bit of math to add to the startling for some realization there has been an increase in disability applications. Since 911, approximately 4.4 million Americans participated in uniform in the Global War on Terrorism. The last time the military experienced such a surge of combat related employment of the armed forces was Vietnam. As you note the mid-seventies through 2001 was a different universe.

Secondly, medical science has advanced just a tad since the Second World War. The Agent Orange fiasco following the Vietnam War put a bright light on the potential risks of employing certain technology without fully understanding its effects. As a result, the VA has been far more proactive in determining certain environmental or location factors are presumptive of long term medical issues than in less informed decades. As Agent Orange also demonstrated, it is not only the right thing to do, but is also likely less expensive and socially divisive than battling class action suits by one's own veterans.

That, doing the right thing with respect for veterans, was also been behind the continuing effort by DOD to ensure that veterans' health issues were recognized and addressed. As you note, when I retired in 2003, no one was interested in my skin cancer, permanently perforated eardrum, or chronic breathing issues. By the time I applied for review two decades latter, repeated exposure to Middle Eastern sun, artillery concussion, and a pollutant rich atmosphere carried significant presumptive weight in an evaluation.

Finally, the existence of Veteran Support Officers in many states have been a Godsend to veterans trying to navigate the bureaucracy of the VA claims process. Applications that formerly were rejected on technicalities are now successfully adjudicated.

So yes, @rookhawk , thankfully something else is finally goin on, and you can not imagine how angry it can make a veteran to have someone with zero direct experience in the underlying issue pointing a finger and assuming fraud.

F-in’ A, General. Thank you.

 

[Mountainshadows]

Something else people don't consider. A lot of the Vietnam Veterans never put in claims. And in their late years with health problems piling on they are encouraged to go to the VA and most do so due to the prohibitive cost of health care.
Two examples: A good friend, 82nd Airborne and 11th Armored Cav for his tour in Vietnam. He carried shrapnel in his leg from a land mine. When he came home from the war he became an alcoholic and was the rest of his life. After he retired from 34 years of working for the county he got diagnosed with liver disease. He was encouraged to go to the VA. On his first visit he was given 100% disability and diagnosed with PTSD. He was 59 years old. He should have been given a rating early on and maybe periodic visits to the VA would have picked up on and diagnosed IT years before he died from it.
My father, always refused to go to the VA. Vietnam Veteran. In his later years as his health declined he finally went. He was diagnosed with some rare heart disease associated with Agent Orange. My father was in his 60's before he ever filed a VA claim.
Some people don't understand the "suck it up" mentality either. As posted above, it is mandatory in your outgoing process to go to VA briefing and write down and file any issue you may think of that happened in the service that may cause you later problems. I made a claim on my knee and lower back. After I was out of the Army, the VA made me an appointment at a Nashville (not far from the base I was stationed at) doctor to have my lower back examined. I was in Kansas City going through a career trade school at the time and did not go to that appointment. The VA sent me a letter back and said they were giving me a 0% rating on my knee and nothing on my back as I didn't show up at the appointment.
No skin off of my back. Is there fraud in any large government program? Most likely. Maybe study up on the wounded casualties numbers from the GWOT. @rookhawk I don't know your background, but the claim you made, with the insinuation that "enlisted" guys are the problem, of the fraud in VA is a little bit bombastic. Several posts have explained the numbers to you and if you fail to see them, then you are only looking for one conclusion from your statistics.
WHICH BY THE WAY, IS AN INSULT TO ENLISTED MEMBERS AND VETERANS OF THE US MILITARY!

 

[Tanks]

Being a “Scout Swimmer” does not entitle the Marine to wear the Scuba badge. Though it’s not uncommon for them to inappropriately buy them and wear them.

That Scuba Pin is for US Marines that finished the 8 week combatant course at the U.S. Navy dive school in Panama City Fla.

He said at the time it was part of that course. I am not going to argue about the specifics as it is out of my area of expertise. I also am not going to ask him if he bought it inappropriately.

 

[MD Driver]

If I may offer an additional bit of math to add to the startling for some realization there has been an increase in disability applications. Since 911, approximately 4.4 million Americans participated in uniform in the Global War on Terrorism. The last time the military experienced such a surge of combat related employment of the armed forces was Vietnam. As you note the mid-seventies through 2001 was a different universe.

Secondly, medical science has advanced just a tad since the Second World War. The Agent Orange fiasco following the Vietnam War put a bright light on the potential risks of employing certain technology without fully understanding its effects. As a result, the VA has been far more proactive in determining certain environmental or location factors are presumptive of long term medical issues than in less informed decades. As Agent Orange also demonstrated, it is not only the right thing to do, but is also likely less expensive and socially divisive than battling class action suits by one's own veterans.

That, doing the right thing with respect for veterans, was also been behind the continuing effort by DOD to ensure that veterans' health issues were recognized and addressed. As you note, when I retired in 2003, no one was interested in my skin cancer, permanently perforated eardrum, or chronic breathing issues. By the time I applied for review two decades latter, repeated exposure to Middle Eastern sun, artillery concussion, and a pollutant rich atmosphere carried significant presumptive weight in an evaluation.

Finally, the existence of Veteran Support Officers in many states have been a Godsend to veterans trying to navigate the bureaucracy of the VA claims process. Applications that formerly were rejected on technicalities are now successfully adjudicated.

So yes, @rookhawk , thankfully something else is finally going on, and you can not imagine how frustrating it is to a veteran to have someone with zero direct experience in the underlying issues pointing a finger and assuming fraud.

I hear (read) you in your salient points. I will add there’s a “perceived” lack of resiliency, or maybe more accurately, a FOMO for many guys as they exit/retire militarily. Some of the shit that passed for a disability for the military guys at the airline was very lame. The FAA became wise to this because the FAA Class One Flight Medicals’ application does include an extensive battery of questions about disabilities. One part of gommint started cross checking with another, and they all looked like they’d seen a ghost. No idea what the status is currently.