Politics

[Alistair]

$14K is how much my solar array and battery backup cost after rebates. And it doesn't require any fuel. For those members on here living in sunny Texas that would seem like the optimum solution.

Yeah, must admit I was thinking that too. One of my colleagues who lives in the sticks went that route and he seems pretty happy with it.

No ongoing maintenance, no need for fuel, no need to check oil each day, no ongoing cost, no concerns about how long the outage is, silent in operation, fully automated switching.

Plus you also have the advantage of free utilities on all the days when the world isn't ending, so there is actually an ROI, which just ain't so with the generator.

That said though, having dug into it a little bit, I think it's currently a tough sell economically in any state except Hawaii, California, and maybe Maine, Connecticut, Massachussetts, New York.

Unless you have an EV, anyway.

Some assumptions:

1. For 100% peace of mind you'd need a big battery that'd last at least a couple of days with no / minimal solar generation (significant blizzards, extended periods of very cloudy days, etc).

2. You'd also need a pretty substantial solar array to meet 100% of your power needs under the worst case scenario.

3. I'd guess the average household in the South requires around 40KWh/day.


So you're talking 15KW of panels, plus a 80KWh battery to serve that scenario with complete peace of mind. Assuming you want the system to enable totally normal operation under any scenario, running all the stuff you'd use on any other day at least. Same benefit as a generator provides... for as long as it has fuel.

That system is going to cost about $100K installed (maybe 70K after rebates if you buy before they expire). Plus you'd probably want an all electric set up with heat pump, induction stove, electric water tank to fill the entire self sufficiency requirement with just the panels, so another 20K there.

ROI on a back up generator = 0, so not that hard to beat.

However, for solar, I think you're looking at about 15-20yrs for payback at current TX market rates, assuming annual electricity savings of about $3000, and selling back about $2000 of electricity to the grid per annum.

Which is tough if the battery might reasonably only have a 10 year lifespan.


Much, much better ROI if you're running an EV, buy a much smaller house battery, more panels, and use the EV as the last ditch emergency power reserve. Also has the advantage of using your free solar to avoid any gasoline spend.

That's the route my colleague went with. His place had no gas hook up, so he just went with an all electric house instead of messing around with propane tanks. He has a 25KW solar array, a F150 Lightning, does his 60 mile round trip commute to work for free (saves about 3k/yr on that trip alone) and only has a 20KWh house battery. ROI much less than 5 years at WI rates and solar provides all the power he needs even here in the frozen north. Gets a negative energy bill each month out of it too.

But the EV thing is more of a lifestyle change, and I think most on this forum have a visceral hatred of EV's and will never go for it.

As mentioned though, the battery option is also a lot more compelling in states with high utility costs like CA.

Not to mention almost certainly more compelling next year than this year:

For most states, and assuming a household with no EV, I think we're about 3-5 years away from it being economically competitive, and about 7-10 away from being the only logical choice. Assuming the subsidies are gone forever, and the current price trends continue.

 

[spike.t]

Perhaps but I’m not completely convinced of that.

The 2013 security updates to the $100 bill took less than a year for the forex shops in Africa to start discounting the older denominations. Even outfitters around that time preferred the newer bills

Yup....still get people bringing them from time to time and we can't change them....

 

[Tbitty]

Yup....still get people bringing them from time to time and we can't change them....

This is something I did not know. It might be worth mentioning to clients that if they bring cash, it needs to be "new" USD currency to be used in your country.

 

[Tbitty]

Not necessarily the most reliable data source, but is at least noteworthy:

Talarico Vs. Paxton: Talarico’s Betting Odds Fall Quickly In Texas Senate Race

Betting odds briefly favored Texas state Rep. James Talarico over a week ago, after Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton received an endorsement from President Donald Trump.

www.forbes.com

In the betting markets, Paxton jumped to 60/40 "lead" this week against Low T.

 

[fourfive8]

Hey Big_Easy, who paid the rebate for your “green” energy system?

 

[spike.t]

This is something I did not know. It might be worth mentioning to clients that if they bring cash, it needs to be "new" USD currency to be used in your country.

I have put on several threads on here about it...and do ..but they still slip through occasionally

 

[spike.t]

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@Alistair , I'm going to disagree with your statement, "ROI on a back up generator = 0, so not that hard to beat."

Having a backup generator does have a pay out. I've lived through extended power outages, Hurricane Katrina to name one, where all the contents of refrig and freezer were lost. A generator keeps the cold stuff cold. Without power for 11 days, the house was not very livable without AC. Go to a hotel, if you can find one, most likely several hundred miles away.

With a generator, staying at your house helps to keep the potential looters at bay too. You simply can't put a value on the chance opportunity to shoot a looter. Priceless!

 

[Altitude sickness]

Another Point of Order with regards to whole house generators. If they are using oil at all. Something is wrong. Mine has run for days without using oil.

They also have a low oil alarm. And should shut down if experiencing low oil alarms.

They run a weekly operation and diagnostic report. You can check the status and condition through your phone app at any time.

 

[spike.t]

Looks like reality is finally kicking in with the UN assholes on "climate change ...

 

[Altitude sickness]

Looks like reality is finally kicking in with the UN assholes on "climate change ...

The Grift isn’t as profitable since U.S. federal grants have dried up.

The literal old world definition of “The Jig is up”

 

[rookhawk]

$14K is how much my solar array and battery backup cost after rebates. And it doesn't require any fuel. For those members on here living in sunny Texas that would seem like the optimum solution.

Solar in some areas has the advantage of providing continuous, supplemental power that can diminish utility bills ongoing.

Failover generators that run on fossil fuels have the advantage of being able to produce a tremendous amount of power on demand, at a cost.

The most expensive part of the whole process is rewiring the electric to select which circuits need continuous power. That is, unless you just buy a huge generator and provide all-circuit, whole-house coverage. That's what I'll be doing.

Solar would never be able to power my whole home, at least not without $50k in batteries. The first hail storm will take out most of the panels though.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Another Point of Order with regards to whole house generators. If they are using oil at all. Something is wrong. Mine has run for days without using oil.

They also have a low oil alarm. And should shut down if experiencing low oil alarms.

They run a weekly operation and diagnostic report. You can check the status and condition through your phone app at any time.

My real world experience is different. The Generac manual actually says 1/2 a quart of oil a day when running 24 hours under a full load.

A few years ago we had a derecho (straight line wind storm) with 90+ mile an hour winds. Trees down all over the place and power out for about 6 days. Everyone in my neighborhood has generators. The power was out for a couple of days and then briefly came back on for about an hour. Everyone's generator shut down when the grid came online. Then the power went off again and stayed off for several more days. When this occurred, a lot of neighbor's generators did not automatically come on line. Low oil level detection wouldn't allow the machine to start. Lesson learn is the generator will run on low oil level, as long as there is enough to maintain oil pressure. If it shuts down, then the low level sensor works. I helped several neighbors get their generators back running by simply adding oil.

 

[Aaron N]

For location of generators in an urban setting, one also needs to take into consideration the noise level. When a neighbor complains the code inspector will stop by with a noise meter and check the noise level AT THE PROPERTY LINE. Our neighborhood is blessed with a neighbor who complains about everything- so when the power went out for several days some months back naturally, since she had no power, she was upset that we did. The next day the code inspector came by with her meter and checked the noise level. the generator is placed with a building between it and the property line. the result was that the noise level was acceptable between 7AM to 10PM, but exceeded the allowable amount from 10PM to 7AM. This wasn't a problem because we'd get everything done that needed electricity during the day and early evening, then shut it down over night.

I’d take a generator over a yapping dog any day

 

[Altitude sickness]

I have a cheaper portable 8500 watt loaner for friends and family. That does what you describe. But my larger whole house does not use oil. At least not yet.

 

[spike.t]

@Alistair , I'm going to disagree with your statement, "ROI on a back up generator = 0, so not that hard to beat."

Having a backup generator does have a pay out. I've lived through extended power outages, Hurricane Katrina to name one, where all the contents of refrig and freezer were lost. A generator keeps the cold stuff cold. Without power for 11 days, the house was not very livable without AC. Go to a hotel, if you can find one, most likely several hundred miles away.

With a generator, staying at your house helps to keep the potential looters at bay too. You simply can't put a value on the chance opportunity to shoot a looter. Priceless!

Send that to Mastercard.....fit right in with their advertising

 

[spike.t]

So ...another 60 days for them to make more drones etc.....what is the thinking if any behind all this back and forwards bullshit talk.....everyone and his dog knows the Iranians keep the bullshit coming to give them space to do what's good for them....apart from some people apparently...........

Trump holds meeting to make 'final determination' on Iran deal

The US president met his advisers, after officials confirmed the US and Iran had agreed a framework of a deal.

www.bbc.com

 

[vati]

They are claiming that it is a commerative issuance for the 250th anniversary and not subject tit the Thayer amendment. Original idea was to put his face on a coin.

I saw toilet paper with his face printed on it. There are simply countless ways to immortalize Trump.

 

[Tanks]

supplement that with the elk and red stag we brought back from New Zealand

How did you get that through US Customs, is there a special dispensation for NZ?

 

[Brent in Az]

I saw toilet paper with his face printed on it. There are simply countless ways to immortalize Trump.

He seems to be immortalized in your head, so he has that going for him.