Politics

I'm well aware of abortion laws and restrictions in Europe having spent a lot of time there.
However none of the European countries are trying to punish doctors or question them when they make a medical decision about abortion unlike some states like Alabama, Texas vs. here.
Alabama is even declared frozen embryos as people...
If I were a doctor I would be pissed off, too and a lot of OB/GYN's are afraid and leaving those states.
Bottom line this issue will cause GOP a lot of votes and it's unfortunate.


I'm going to say something horrible here, but it's where my mentality is at.

You've all heard me say I believe we are living in the decline of rome era. My mission in life is to elect leaders to stall and delay what I believe is an inevitable collapse in the next 1-2 generations. You can judge me a pessimist in light of that view, but it's my view.

So what does this have to do with abortion? I've held staunch pro-life views my entire life, defensible and informed by an agnostic and cultural perspective, not reliant on any personal religious beliefs. I've changed my views for a fairly horrible reason in recent years. The people that are hedonists that want to abort their progeny to enjoy decadence and lack of duty are the very same people that will be leading us to civil unrest and civil collapse. I no longer hold a pro-life national policy position because I've come to conclude those aborted and their parents are the very people that will be shooting at my family in the next 1-2 generations. If they'd like to commit murder to thin their own numbers, it may delay the collapse of what was a once great Republic.

On a personal level, I still encourage the redeemable to rethink their choice to abort and have/would provide material support to help them raise a kid or surrender a child to adoption.

On the macro level? I'm done fighting, to my family's detriment, to discourage dangerous groups from destroying themselves before they raise the army of savages inside the nation. (And I don't mean any race or class, I mean a broad generational ideology of hedonists and radicals)
 
... I've changed my views for a fairly horrible reason in recent years. The people that are hedonists that want to abort their progeny to enjoy decadence and lack of duty are the very same people that will be leading us to civil unrest and civil collapse. I no longer hold a pro-life national policy position because I've come to conclude those aborted and their parents are the very people that will be shooting at my family in the next 1-2 generations. If they'd like to commit murder to thin their own numbers, it may delay the collapse of what was a once great Republic.
...

Margaret Sanger came to the same conclusion decades before you did when she started Planned Parenthood.
 
Margaret Sanger came to the same conclusion decades before you did when she started Planned Parenthood.

She did it by ethnicities because she was a racist and a eugenicist. That would be a big difference between my view and hers.
 
I'm going to say something horrible here, but it's where my mentality is at.

You've all heard me say I believe we are living in the decline of rome era. My mission in life is to elect leaders to stall and delay what I believe is an inevitable collapse in the next 1-2 generations. You can judge me a pessimist in light of that view, but it's my view.

So what does this have to do with abortion? I've held staunch pro-life views my entire life, defensible and informed by an agnostic and cultural perspective, not reliant on any personal religious beliefs. I've changed my views for a fairly horrible reason in recent years. The people that are hedonists that want to abort their progeny to enjoy decadence and lack of duty are the very same people that will be leading us to civil unrest and civil collapse. I no longer hold a pro-life national policy position because I've come to conclude those aborted and their parents are the very people that will be shooting at my family in the next 1-2 generations. If they'd like to commit murder to thin their own numbers, it may delay the collapse of what was a once great Republic.

On a personal level, I still encourage the redeemable to rethink their choice to abort and have/would provide material support to help them raise a kid or surrender a child to adoption.

On the macro level? I'm done fighting, to my family's detriment, to discourage dangerous groups from destroying themselves before they raise the army of savages inside the nation. (And I don't mean any race or class, I mean a broad generational ideology of hedonists and radicals)

I can't disagree with anything you've said. Much of it mirrors thoughts I have had myself, as far as the likely direction of things on a large scale for our country. The rather simplistic correlation I often make is that the snowball that's rolling down hill is well past the point of no return; it is too late for its momentum to be arrested. I want to believe the timeline can still be longer than what you say, but I sure wouldn't bet a large sum of money against what you say, that's for sure. But I generally try to be more of an optimist; that's just how I am wired.

I am staunchly pro-life. It's a major line in the sand for me when considering who I will vote for, at any level. And mine is founded in religion - in my faith. I have to say, I had never considered your viewpoint, as far as those who are the problem giving birth to and raising future problems. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning but that actually makes sense to me. However, I would counter with two things. The first is that God can and does use anyone, and any situation, for His purpose. Because yours isn't founded on religious beliefs that probably doesn't hold a lot of water, but it is something I strongly believe. The second is this: the kids don't always reflect that parents. I am a shining example of that myself. With regards to most beliefs/morals, I am pretty much the opposite to the people my parents were. Probably on a larger scale what you stated is closer to accurate. I am just pointing out that it's certainly not absolute.
 
These so called "Historians" are the same type of people that awarded Obama the Nobel peace prize.
And Time magazine awarding Putin "Man of The Year", right before he invaded Georgia.
 
Maybe it's just me... I think they look like they could be related. And I don't want to be in a room with either.


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I can't disagree with anything you've said. Much of it mirrors thoughts I have had myself, as far as the likely direction of things on a large scale for our country. The rather simplistic correlation I often make is that the snowball that's rolling down hill is well past the point of no return; it is too late for its momentum to be arrested. I want to believe the timeline can still be longer than what you say, but I sure wouldn't bet a large sum of money against what you say, that's for sure. But I generally try to be more of an optimist; that's just how I am wired.

I am staunchly pro-life. It's a major line in the sand for me when considering who I will vote for, at any level. And mine is founded in religion - in my faith. I have to say, I had never considered your viewpoint, as far as those who are the problem giving birth to and raising future problems. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning but that actually makes sense to me. However, I would counter with two things. The first is that God can and does use anyone, and any situation, for His purpose. Because yours isn't founded on religious beliefs that probably doesn't hold a lot of water, but it is something I strongly believe. The second is this: the kids don't always reflect that parents. I am a shining example of that myself. With regards to most beliefs/morals, I am pretty much the opposite to the people my parents were. Probably on a larger scale what you stated is closer to accurate. I am just pointing out that it's certainly not absolute.


I wasn't suggesting I don't have religious principles, only that I held defensible pro-life viewpoints that were persuasive from an agnostic perspective.

Unfortunately, I fear that the chapter in Freakanomics outlining the rise and fall of Chauchesku <sp> in Romania seems relevant to the West at present. Those not aborted were his demise. In the current case, my circle of care is reducing because we are under attack (literally, not figuratively) in skirmishes on our own soil from Antifa, unauthorized immigration by non-Catholic Latinos, and a host of others. It's hard to call it an insurrection when its sanctioned by the plans of a major political party.

All I care is about stalling "progress" and kicking the can down the road as long as possible for the American way of life. I now believe self-inflicted genocide might be advantageous for the forces of good, even as we scream from the rooftops to society "don't harm yourself or your own progeny".

The nihilism creeps in: "you were just going to harm my family and country in the future anyway, go ahead and slow your progress by reducing your own ranks".

Who are these people I speak of?:

-Those that want to destroy systems rather than repair and improve them

-Those that think violence is acceptable in the face of opposing speech

-Those that wish to usurp the liberty and autonomy of those that are producers in society through their labors

-Those that wish to seize the assets, ideas, work product, or commodities that good Americans generate.

-Those that wish to suppress or harm others based upon the targets race or religion.


As for me, I've passively retreated from conflict. Moved. Change my kids schooling. Reduced financial dependence on any lender or creditor. Grown my relationships with neighbors and local government that is of like minds. Focused on local charity instead of national causes.

If I'm completely wrong, at least I've improved local conditions. If I'm right, I've tended my own garden without harming anyone.
 
...The first is that God can and does use anyone, and any situation, for His purpose. Because yours isn't founded on religious beliefs that probably doesn't hold a lot of water, but it is something I strongly believe. ...

The problem I have with your viewpoint is the fact that it is based on your religious beliefs, and you wish to force it down the throats of everyone else whether they agree with you or not even if from a different religious faith or not at all.

I am more of a libertarian on this issue. I think the first trimester is a good compromise between the two camps (other than pure medical reasons).

It is ironic that the GOP that is supposed to stand for less government interference in people's lives is so focused on people's personal medical decisions. Then again what else could you expect from people that still believe Earth was created about 6,000 - 10,000 years ago. :unsure:
 
Thank you for the clarification good sir. Maybe I need more caffeine. :p
 
The problem I have with your viewpoint is the fact that it is based on your religious beliefs, and you wish to force it down the throats of everyone else whether they agree with you or not even if from a different religious faith or not at all.

I am more of a libertarian on this issue. I think the first trimester is a good compromise between the two camps (other than pure medical reasons).

It is ironic that the GOP that is supposed to stand for less government interference in people's lives is so focused on people's personal medical decisions. Then again what else could you expect from people that still believe Earth was created about 6,000 - 10,000 years ago. :unsure:
I'm not religious at all but believe in God as the creator.
As for the religious who are trying to force others to act as they see fit I say " Let the God sort it out".
Nobody has a right to tell medical people what to do in abortion cases or force woman to suffer with children who has lifelong problems.
Not only there are people who believe Earth created 6-10K years ago but there are also a lot of people who doesn't believe in evolution!
 
I'm not religious at all but believe in God as the creator.
As for the religious who are trying to force others to act as they see fit I say " Let the God sort it out".
Nobody has a right to tell medical people what to do in abortion cases or force woman to suffer with children who has lifelong problems.
Not only there are people who believe Earth created 6-10K years ago but there are also a lot of people who doesn't believe in evolution!

From a non-religious basis, society can tell people what to do or not to do including medical people and abortion providers. A few considerations in the present tense:

1. In Europe, ethicists have positioned the idea that if abortion is naturally lawful after the first trimester, it should be permitted up to two years of age. There isn't a particular novel line in the sand when it comes to self-awareness, sentience, or autonomy difference.

2. In several States (Illinois being the first), laws are on the books that prohibit medical practitioners from providing medical care or comfort to aborted fetuses. So a desired child born premature at 32 weeks has more rights than an undesired child that was aborted, yet is alive and is viable if medical care was provided. <- Not sure how anyone on planet earth with a soul is cool with this, but the prevailing platform position of one major political party is.

3. Determining abortion lawfulness based on health / genetic conditions isn't even a gateway, its in the same theater as euthanasia of children and adults with the same conditions. Basically, what's the moral difference for any caregiver with power of medical attorney? Why not be consistent and allow adult children to kill their elderly parents, or elderly parents to kill their disabled but inconvenient adult children. The party position of the DNC is that abortion based upon medical or genetic conditions should be lawful until birth whereas their ideological cohorts in Europe are just a step ahead proposing the other latter points to be legal.

It's not a religious argument or bent on the above. Once majority rule is empowered to authorize or conduct the killing of other inconvenient people, it won't take long until every reader of this post is put up for a similar discussion. A slippery slope has never been so obvious than the trajectory of society in the past ten years.

In the end, I confess my prior Nihilism earlier in the thread. Whatever floats your boat, society. Go for it. Lets just not mince words about what modern society is and what their end goals actually are. Won't effect me until far further own the road, half my neighbors are Amish an the other half are protestant farmers. No moral decay in my backyard.
 
3. Determining abortion lawfulness based on health / genetic conditions isn't even a gateway, its in the same theater as euthanasia of children and adults with the same conditions. Basically, what's the moral difference for any caregiver with power of medical attorney? Why not be consistent and allow adult children to kill their elderly parents, or elderly parents to kill their disabled but inconvenient adult children. The party position of the DNC is that abortion based upon medical or genetic conditions should be lawful until birth whereas their ideological cohorts in Europe are just a step ahead proposing the other latter points to be legal.
I have the utmost respect to other view points including yours and like you said whatever floats your boat.
However are you trying to equate abortion based on health/genetic condition or danger to mother's health to deliberately killing disabled children or elderly parents?
Do you believe in medical decisions?
What's the difference between a doctor telling you as a man or to a woman that a certain procedure needed because there's a high risk to your life?
You call it a gateway, some woman might call it life or death.
On a side note do you believe in capital punishment? because if you do this conversation is meaningless...
 
...
On a side note do you believe in capital punishment? because if you do this conversation is meaningless...
Not really. They have cover for that in Leviticus 24:17-22 (An eye for an eye).

“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death. 18 Whoever takes an animal's life shall make it good, life for life. 19 If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him, 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him. 21 Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death. 22 You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God.”
 
I'm not religious at all but believe in God as the creator.
As for the religious who are trying to force others to act as they see fit I say " Let the God sort it out".
Nobody has a right to tell medical people what to do in abortion cases or force woman to suffer with children who has lifelong problems.
Not only there are people who believe Earth created 6-10K years ago but there are also a lot of people who doesn't believe in evolution!
Most Christians are better educated than what you are giving them credit for. I'm pretty sure that most of them know that dinosaurs went extinct 64-66 million years before human beings existed. That does not.mean that they (and the GOP) do not recognize a need to stand up to evil behavior.

Peter Singer is a professor and "bio-ethisist" at Princeton. As you probably know, he advocates for abortion up to 30 days after birth if the mother wants it. Infanticide. On the other hand he feels that animals have rights equal to human beings. He states that animals have the same right to live as a human. In his view a mouse would have more rights than a human baby.

Singer's views are well known and spread widely long those on the left. Those are the people that promote abortion, yet fight against the death penalty for murderers and even serial killers. One of these killers murdered a young correctional officer that I knew. She fought for her life and left her dental imprint on his arm. He asked for a tetanus shot, "...because she bit me" and confessed. He was tried and sentenced to death. The Washington governor has blocked all executions and vows, "Not on my watch!" The left is rife with evil people. Abortion, animal rights, and protection of of those that commit evil are just some of their activities. Yes, people on the right want smaller government. That does not mean they want no government. It is, in fact, up to us to stand up against evil.
 
Most Christians are better educated than what you are giving them credit for. I'm pretty sure that most of them know that dinosaurs went extinct 64-66 million years before human beings existed. That does not.mean that they (and the GOP) do not recognize a need to stand up to evil behavior.

Peter Singer is a professor and "bio-ethisist" at Princeton. As you probably know, he advocates for abortion up to 30 days after birth if the mother wants it. Infanticide. On the other hand he feels that animals have rights equal to human beings. He states that animals have the same right to live as a human. In his view a mouse would have more rights than a human baby.

Singer's views are well known and spread widely long those on the left. Those are the people that promote abortion, yet fight against the death penalty for murderers and even serial killers. One of these killers murdered a young correctional officer that I knew. She fought for her life and left her dental imprint on his arm. He asked for a tetanus shot, "...because she bit me" and confessed. He was tried and sentenced to death. The Washington governor has blocked all executions and vows, "Not on my watch!" The left is rife with evil people. Abortion, animal rights, and protection of of those that commit evil are just some of their activities. Yes, people on the right want smaller government. That does not mean they want no government. It is, in fact, up to us to stand up against evil.
I don't know Peter Singer and really don't care what he said.
I also believe evil people exists in everywhere, left, right, religious, atheist, etc...
However anybody who believes in death penalty and pro-life is a hypocrite in my book.
I might be against abortion but telling others what to do regardless of their medical condition or interfering with doctors in the name of religion should not happen in a country where church and state supposedly separated.
I have two grand daughters and don't want them to suffer because religious bigots made it impossible for them get proper medical care.
I also believe %70 of the public thinks alike according to polls and GOP unfortunately will pay the price.
 
Meanwhile back at the front - when the US succumbed to international pressure (which China and Russia have ignored) and voluntarily suspended the use of DPICM sub-munition rounds for MLRS and HIMARS, something else was needed for troops in the open. Enter the M30 A1 and A2 rockets. Each carries approximately 182,000 round tungsten fragments (think double-ought buck shot size) that strike in a circular pattern. Think of it as the ultimate wildfowl load. Because of the density of tungsten and velocity, they easily penetrate body armor and light skinned vehicles. They are particularly effective against troops without overhead cover.

Day before yesterday and again yesterday, UA reconnaissance caught Russian troops in the open in range of HIMARS south of Kherson. The rockets are GPS guided. With an accurate grid location, you just need one.

 

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I didn't get drawn for Wyoming this year.




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