Norma PH solids for Buffalo

Ruraldoc

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I'm am going to hunt Cape Buffalo in 3 weeks. I have a 416 Remington and 400 grain Swift A frames.
But in a recent conversation with my PH,he indicated that I needed to bring Solids for follow up shots.

The only thing I can find is 400 grain Norma PH ammo.

Does anyone have experience with Norma PH solids on dangerous game?
 
I'm am going to hunt Cape Buffalo in 3 weeks. I have a 416 Remington and 400 grain Swift A frames.
But in a recent conversation with my PH,he indicated that I needed to bring Solids for follow up shots.

The only thing I can find is 400 grain Norma PH ammo.

Does anyone have experience with Norma PH solids on dangerous game?
Yes, I’ve shot 2 hippopotamus bulls on land with the 300Gr variant (I was using a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum). They leave very little to be desired and I am quite fond of them.
 
Thanks so much for your response. It appears from Norma's website that they are a monolythic design with a broad flat nose. I seem to remember a post here where someone used a 400 grain as well but I can't find it.
 
They are fine

J

Though in 404J expensive and hard to find

I've got 100 solids and 40 softs left

they are better investment than stocks and shares

Warning - The value does tend to drop following a large bang :cool:
 
Spoke to the PH today. He says the Norma Solids are good to go.
 
Spoke to the PH today. He says the Norma Solids are good to go.
I don’t want to know any personal details, but will you be hunting Cape buffalo in an area with very dense cover ? I still do know a few old school white hunters who recommend loading solids exclusively for hunting Cape buffalo in low visibility situations. But generally speaking, by the 1990s… most of my white hunters were already recommending Swift A-Frames, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws & Barnes X control expansion bullets for Cape buffalo hunting.

If Cape buffalo is to be hunted in a herd, then a solid is a very bad idea because you run a risk of accidentally wounding a non target animal. Plus, the control expansion bullets kill faster on body shots.
 
I would still gi with only A frames.....if the Woodleigh solids they are round nose and not very effective on body shots
 
IvW,
I believe the Woodleigh round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids loaded by Norma for the .416 Remington Magnum were in 450Gr weight.

Since the OP said that he has 400Gr Norma solids, they should be the monometal flat nosed variety.

But I concur. The Swift A Frame/Rhino Solid Shank/Barnes TSX are better choices.
 
Here is the ammo described by the OP

Swift A-Frames will do well but like any soft point including A-Frames maybe not the best for follow up shots. The hunter's PH clearly asked him to bring some solids.... sooo all the keyboard PHs want the hunter to immediately get into conflict with the PH?

The last buffalo I shot was perfectly hit on right front point of shoulder angling, walking toward me @ 45 yards with 416 Rem Mag 400 gr A-Frame. Bullet transversed thoracic cavity just above heart and through lungs ending up in left flank. At the shot, the bull put it in high gear. Second shot was 400 gr monolithic FP solid just behind last rib right side angling forward ending up in left front shoulder. Third shot was through leading edge of right thigh transversing through the body ending up at junction of brisket and neck. This happened fast and the bull did not slow down in straight line run until out of sight in brush at 75 yards, collapsing at full speed at about 100 yards after first hit. I will guarantee two things.... a double rifle would not have gotten three shots into this bull like my Winchester M70 did and that any soft point would not have penetrated to the vitals with any certainty and done the job that shots #2 and #3 did. Forget trying to convince me otherwise.

Screen Shot 2023-07-11 at 12.37.54 PM.png
 
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I really feel that the idea of a soft as your first shot on buffalo then has to be followed up with solids is extremely outdated. Each to their own if they really want to use solids but premium soft points in this day are perfect for buffalo.
 
I am with IVW. I have never loaded solids for Buffalo. A swift A-Frame in either 300 gr .375 or 400 gr whatever will be a perfect choice first shot or follow-up.
 
I am hunting in South Africa on the Limpopo river. I was able to speak to the PH and he said he felt like Norma Solids were very good and he said the same thing about A Frames.

I would be comforable with just A frames but I will do what he asks me to do. He does 30 Buffalo hunts a year.
 
On my Buff hunt earlier this year I mentioned I was bringing A-Frames and the PH replied to don't bother bringing solids.

I have a box of Hydro's feeling kinda lonesome...
 
I really feel that the idea of a soft as your first shot on buffalo then has to be followed up with solids is extremely outdated
@Aussie_Hunter , apologies honestly, but your statement seems to be the common denominator for some of the folks on this thread...... so I am using it ..............

I absolutely disagree with the statement with EXTREME PREJUDICE.........

There are those that declare that solids are just no longer required in modern buffalo hunting with the extreme premium expanding bullets we have today......... I do not accept that opinion, and figure that is an opinion of someone with little experience in the field, and more experience reading a magazine. In fact, I am of the complete opposite opinion and believe the SOLID to be the very most important component of any hunt for Dangerous game, thin or thick skinned...... PERIOD.

Things go wrong in the field. Things that might be out of your control. That properly designed solid, in this case the 450 #13 CEB Safari Solid, just might get you out of a pickle and save the day.

Even with common practice, after that first shot is fired with your Trauma Inflicting bullet, Raptor, Swift, North Fork or what have you, you follow up with solids to pay the insurance. If your animal is still on his feet, more than likely he is not presenting the perfect shot on #2 or #3 or thereafter. It may be running through thick brush, your shot may and most likely will be the South End of a North Bound Freight train, and you will need extreme straight line penetration and bone busting ability to end the dance you just started.

And in the case of BUFFALO, South End of a North Bound Buff, there is NO PREMIUM that you can count on to go from the rear to the front........ Not even the mighty Raptor...... which will nearly double the penetration depth of most Premium expanding..........

Back many years ago I was working with an 18 inch 458 B&M, at the time I was shooting a 420 Raptor at 2250 fps and 450 Solids at 2200 fps....... At about 30 yards or so I shot a nice cow buffalo dead frontal heart shot. The animal turned and dropped, it did not go anywhere. I was determined to find that bullet. Back at the shed we spent a very long time looking and sifting through stomach contents, and finally found the bullet just as it exited the stomach. Meaning it passed through all the stomach contents and was found just beyond........... I was so amazed at this, I took a photo of what that bullet had to pass through........... There is NO PREMIUM SOFT POINT EXPANDING BULLET that will make it all the way through these stomach contents........ take a look............

DSC03529-X2.jpg


Oh for sure, the Solids are the most important component in your success in the field...............

I have been backing up with Solids since 2005 on everything, regardless of Dangerous Game or just antelope or other species, for that Just in Case moment that everything is not as perfect as you hope for. And in many cases it saved the day......... And most days it made me feel far more confident that I could handle most any situation with Solids backing me up.

And yes, that goes for the PH's that will tell you you don't need solids as well...... Of course you don't, they are going to do any shooting for you that you can't handle, and if you don't have the proper tools to complete the mission, well that is on you. Don't worry about using solids then, let your PH take care of your problems.

My ammo load out for years has been around 80% Solids, and the rest Trauma inflicting bullets. If you want to take that perfect shot on the first round, then everything there after is NOT going to be a perfect shot, you are going to need that deep diving, deep penetrating solid, because the soft, is not going to get you where you need to be......

As stated, in the field things don't always go perfectly........ I shot a buffalo once with a 500 B&M, shooting 410 Raptors at 2500 fps, followed up by 450 gr Solids at 2450 fps....... I shot the buffalo quartering to me on point of the left shoulder, severe trauma, it turned to the left and I hammered the right shoulder dead center...... or that is honest to god what I saw in the scope. Buffalo drops to the shot. And sure enough the solid had punched dead center completely through the buffalo shoulder and exited. Then someone said I had shot through a damn tree? What? I did not see a tree........ but look at what the solid went through before it dead centered the shoulder........No expanding premium is going to do that................Not even Raptor can do that...........

P6231330%20copy-XL.jpg


I shot another buffalo once on the run, I am not a good running shot, buffalo was running about 35 yards out, left to right....... I was shooting a M71 Lever gun in 50 B&M Alaskan, 365 gr Lever Raptor at 2250 fps, followed up by 405 Lever Solids at 2150 fps....... the 365 Raptor hit buffalo just behind the shoulders double lung, bucked up and kept going, next shot was a 405 Solid that hit him square in the guts, and he kept on running....... he stopped about 20 more steps and we had a battle then with nothing but 405 Solids at that point and ended the issue successfully......... Return to camp, view a video that was taken and I shot a damn tree 10 steps in front of me on the second shot with the Solids. You could see it clearly in the video, the solid hit the tree dead center, it was only about 3 inches in diameter, it punched through, went dead straight to the buffalo and hit the buffalo and exited as well........ although it was a gut hit, it was a hit none the less......... you could see the bullet blow through the tree and go straight to the buffalo..........

IMG_2177aa-L.jpg
IMG_2179aa-M.jpg


Don't ever ask me if you need solids, the answer will always, 100% of the time be unequivocally YES YES YES................

Now you go do what you please, you have been told..............What you choose to do is on you......

End of Story
Michael
 
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