Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Ryanlo, Jan 29, 2017.
I like the sound of that
The next logical step is to sell me your 404 at a rock bottom price in order to fund your new purchase!
You've got a gun in the "4" caliber already, so skip over the 458, skip the 5s too and go straight to a 6. Something to said about even numbers (although I'm not exactly sure what that is)
Somebody on AH posted a link to the 600 Overkill. I first thought it was a joke, but it is a real and really big round. http://americanhuntingrifles.com/?page_id=37
Sort of makes the 458 Lott look small. I bet a box of 20 rounds costs more than my first car cost.
The fellas here have already put forward a wealth of figures for different calibres , so we won't go over traveled ground. Shooting large calibres represent a certain cost.....cause everythings big , presses, dies, bullets , cases and powder by the truckload. Best thing would be to try and test drive the ones your interested in before you plonk down your hard earned, if possible.
Well I would like to shoot a 500 Jeffery , and compare apples to apples , all I can say is that if you have not fired a 458 Lott , it has much more recoil than a 458 Win Mag, and if I cannot imagine generating that huge amount of ft lbs that the Jef produces without paying on the other end.
@Ryanlo, I have Ruger RSMs chambered both in 416 Rigby and 458 Lott. Let me know when you are headed up to check out Jim Guist's taxidermy studio and, if you have time, you are welcome to put some lead down the pipes.
It depends...don'tcha just hate that weasel saying. I prefer lower pressure rounds, less sharp recoil and a bigger slower push. Like my 416 Rigby and a 505 Gibbs. I homeload, so the 505 is easier to reload than the 500 Jeffrey (also, much lower pressure round). I love my 416 Rigby (my grandfather had it built for me so I'm biased). Not bad to shoot at all...but it's a real pain to load with that small shoulder...it's an easy piece of expensive brass to crush.
Have fun, get what you want and enjoy shooting it or just owning it. Heck, I've got a 6 pounder 1841 Mountain Howitzer...you can shoot 15 ounce cans of veggies or baseballs out of it...that's a big bore (never hunted with it though). Like any big bore, you don't need the spotting scope to see your groups.
I agree the 505 Gibbs is a bit lower pressure, a lot easier to make feed (if your action/bolt face is large enough). As far as the 505 Gibbs being a big slow push lol! If you believe that ... Either the 505 Gibbs or the 500 Jeffery will clear out you sinuses after a few shots ...
Recoil and stopping power? Next steps up are:
With a good weight rifle, the 505 is a lot more pleasant than the 458 Lott or 460 Weatherby...they have a much sharper kick (at least to me). I think one of the more miserable guns I've shot have been one of those light 300 Win Mag mountain sort of rifles...jeeze, a fast sharp kick. A nice cheap light 12 ga. with slugs...now there is also a special sinus clearer.
A true story...I was at the range with my 375 H&H Ruger bolt gun...I had some light 235 grain bullets I'd loaded for deer hunting (I use the nice rifles for lots of stuff, benefits of reloading). A guy came up and said, "Lemme' try it". Never saw him before and thought it was pretty rude. 'Sure!" I said, got out one of my 300 grain max load cartridges. He wasn't holding it tight enough and was leaning back a bit...."BANG!!!....Ow!" and he asked if his brother could shoot it. "Sure" I said. His brother must've received the manners gene his sibling missed that day. He apologized for his brother's manners...I said, "No problem" and put in a light load. "bang....well that's not too bad"...he whispered, "Light load?"..."Yep", I said. His brother said, 'Lemmee shoot it again"....nary a please or request heard. Dropped in another max load...he really wasn't holding it tight this time since his shoulder hurt. "BANG!!!"...I had my hand underneath in case he dropped my rifle". Sniff..."that's a might stiff to shoot" His brother shot it again..."bang" "Why, that's not bad at all" he said...and they left the range with the one brother smiling and the other having an experience. Yeah, I know...crappy thing to do...seemed kind've Karmic...never had anyone come up like that before or since. A Kodak moment.
I've let friends only shoot my 500 Jeffery and I always take my Leupold 1.5-5x off before they shoot it. I love those steel Talley QR rings. My only handload is a 570g A-Frame or TSX at 2300 fps, using relatively fast powder too, H4895. Maybe a slower powder would take the edge off of it. I still love to shoot it though
Scopes are killers for people used to light kicking rifles. Brought a friend out and worked him through calibers....338 Winmag, 338 Lapua, 375H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Winmag and 505 Gibbs. Started him with the Lapua..soft kicking due to the suppressor on the front with big NF scope. Next the .338 Winmag on a Ruger stainless too light rifle...I hadn't seen him crowd the scope...a very nice bleeding half moon happened. After the Band-Aid, cleanup on aisle 3 etc. we kept going up...of all of them, he thought the 375 was the worst kicker. Go figure.
If the scope can half moon someone, I'd think the scope is installed improperly or was wrong for the rifle. Most scopes have at least 3.5" of eye relief. I've never owned a rifle of any caliber that was possible to half moon cut a shooter of any reasonable size. Mounts matter. Installation matters.
404j has about 41 pounds
458 has about 58 pounds
460 has about 100 pounds
470 nitro has 69 pounds
500 nitro has 73 pounds
I don't have the calculations handy but 500 Jeff and 505 Gibbs will have around 100 pounds. Heavy loads in light magazine rifles is no walk in the park. A 460 weatherby is so far out of reasonable it has no business as a hunting rifle and is not a safe PH gun because recoil and muzzle rise are so great it increases time for a precious second shot to save a client's life. I have no idea why we are suggesting "a step up" from a .404 is any of these guns? You're comparing guns with 150% more recoil and calling them peers?
A step up from 404j recoil is .458 and .416 Rigby. Nearly 50% more recoil. Also a .375 weatherby is 50% more recoil.
There is no gun in the world that is a "little bit" better than a .404 for "a little bit" more recoil. The .404J is perfection: the 4lbs more recoil than a .375HH yet it can safely kill an elephant with a body shot. Anyone can operate it including 12 year old girls as we've learned. It can shoot a 450gr bullet. It is as gentle and refined a caliber as there ever was, enough gun for any client for any prey.
I respect different opinions but let's be realistic in our data based approach, you cannot compare apples and oranges as a "step up".
11 pound gun
82 pounds of recoil, exactly double that if a 404J
I had a buddy who had a Marlin 336 in 30-30 Win with a cheap scope on the extra high see through mounts that thing drew more blood from people than deer. I think the extra high mounts and a cheap scope with no eye relief was the problem. He left his brother in law use it and when he and his wife split up he didn't ask for it back.
You are right position of a scope can effect felt and real recoil. I myself have to use mounts a little higher than I would like (read I have a record book head and a hogs neck) and can't get down into low mounted scopes.
On a different note I've seen guys who try to stop recoil usually ends with scope eye. I think that is why some women seem to do better than large men with recoil, they don't try to stop it just roll with it.
E Wright has the right idea i believe.
shoot somebody else's large rifle a few times and THEN make a decision.
could save you a bunch of money and headaches (of all kinds)
some people tolerate recoil better than others. your current rifle will handle anything you want to shoot. bigger is not ALWAYS better. that said, i understand the draw of larger calibers. then you have to decide, double or bolt!
Don't forget, some guns are designed to kill game, some are designed to kill dangerous game instantly to save the life of a client!
Not many hunters shoot .577 for example but it is certainly a "stopper" in the hands of the professional. It is fulfilling its purpose of dead right there. We as clients can shoot .375s and .404s because our guides provide the insurance.
@Shawn.54 i appreciate your trophy skull measurements! Try a low ring straight tube scope with 4" or more extended eye relief and I don't think you'll need those high rings anymore. Getting a clear picture in a 30mm straight tube is much easier than trying to line up a 2-10x44" with a 3" eye relief and a one inch tube! If you can lower those rings and still site clearly, your recoil felt will greatly diminish.
Right now I'm stuck with what I have I'm willing wallet is unable. Recoil is not bad my scope has a 4" eye relief just 1"tube I even have trouble getting into open sights my son loves the opens I have to wiggle around to get sight pitcher.
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