I looked around the web a bit and saw a recent video of Steve H. hunting cape buffalo, I have to admire him, he is an old guy now and looks in pretty good shape.
Oh I think you you should stay judgemental, they've earned it
Fordy, This a very valuable post. Thanks for posting.
Your welcome hopefully the following is one that may get a few ticking in the fascinating world of terminals
So true reality has hit home potentially to a few , others still won’t get it
I like watching those types of discussions & don’t overly get to involved in them as I’m way to time poor to get into those especially when you see the mind of the individual is already made up especially when you see wounds like they quote as being great which is correct if you haven’t seen the better ones but defining the best is often harder
Yes
Yes this goes with above part & why one needs to clear their heads & look @ what’s occurring not what we believe to be the case .
Yes this line is very true & one that a blanket statement should always apply too but when it goes off the rails even a touch you have 2 types of people here also
Good stuff!Gday Brian
Your welcome hopefully the following is one that may get a few ticking in the fascinating world of terminals
So true reality has hit home potentially to a few , others still won’t get it
Using a good true solid over a mushroom pill that is of a mono construction or to a less extent a bonded using old school thoughts is not hard to equal or surpass terminally for some applications if one clears their head but move to a shedding mono or more limited applications a frangible ( the highest trauma pills ) I have failed to see / how to get better terminal results out of a true solid except where penetration is required or velocity is real low where the trauma pill becomes erratic in the terminal journey or lastly deflection
It’s why a true solid & higher trauma causing pill matched together in a dual load is pretty darn hard to improve on ( still room but it’s getting real hard these days ) but all shedding are not equal to the same level & a frangible both have serious weaknesses also if one is not careful & under penetration is more often a issue yet we here so many times that the pill on a broadside shot was found against the hide or in it or in the leg meat yet its so called perfect preformance hmmm define perfect is one that is a individual thing as what are we comparing it to & more importantly how big is the pool it’s against ( this has nothing to do with the need for the pill to stay in the critter as that is a parameter of requirements & one that is vastly different to actual terminal wounds but yes they are some what linked but separate if one wants to get in the fun terminal world )
You see this time after time & once the terminal path is studied / measured & put against other styles or patterns you see these pills all have a taper in the wounds View attachment 705476it also occurs the other way of for better words pencils the first lobe View attachment 705559till it’s expanded to full diameter the gives better wound in 2nd lobe
View attachment 705560but those pills also taper & understanding the different zones a pill has is one that must be understood to get a better understanding of what pill is actually better for the intended situation to come
( pictures are just random critters for illustrations)
So once again knowing the weaknesses of designs & limitation’s is extremely important & this is not when THINGS GO RIGHT as it’s the other side that will give you more insight yep I love to explore & dispatch the critter asap across the many variables that do occur in the field
Also I like to cover as many bases as possible
But I’m darned if I can think of a dual load for elephant so I’m on another path that maybe better than what we already have ????? Time will tell on this & guidances are being sort & put in place from the best in the industry I know of so stay tuned on that
I like watching those types of discussions & don’t overly get to involved in them as I’m way to time poor to get into those especially when you see the mind of the individual is already made up especially when you see wounds like they quote as being great which is correct if you haven’t seen the better ones but defining the best is often harder
There are only a few bullets that are on the market today that can make use of what I’m showing ( the ceb Fn solid surely doesn’t need a introduction lol )
The 375 & that 235 gr hydro is also one but specific it is , I don’t know wether woodleigh will make anymore but it does have limitations so match that to the hatch & watch it outperform any mushroom pill of what is outdated information yet all will still kill yes but the good shedding it hasn’t been able to reach those levels .
In all reality though the 235 is a touch light on buff & better served with a ?250/260 ish weight pill but I doubt it will ever come as on the very brief talk I’ve had with Geoff on the 235 in a 7twist going flat out , his answer to me was “why” due to the 300 version
& all respect to him but that as you come to in a minute is old school thoughts while backed up from good reliability it doesn’t put critters on the ground as quickly if one uses a different method like above, end of story !! but make sure one covers the bases in this scenario is paramount “impact to tip” shows us a lot & one’s own need’s & acceptance level plays in here also
Yes
A better outcome on the
“impact to tip “part dosent concern some but the next generation once they are shown & shoot the different types they see it so easily that the tide is a turning but slowly yes even had some older school thought guys change as I have over time
Yes this goes with above part & why one needs to clear their heads & look @ what’s occurring not what we believe to be the case .
Sectional density in terminal form is extremely different to sectional density in flight
Got a Funny one on SD ( well not really ) I did some work for a bullet company & a zoo that had extremely tight tolerances & criteria's to meet on what a certain bullet needed to do for the few scenarios put forward to me but couldn’t exceed for fear of secondary wounding & I ended up coming up with a combo that filled the roles as best as I could find & yet when the ballistic gurus came back & wanted more sectional density which contradicted what was wanted as a outcome & shown to be the case & I let that be known he better go & clear his head & look what the criteria's were @ the start then study the hard factual evidence yep he was stuck in the past of needing x amount of sectional density to do a job
he had no clue
Yes not funny as lives were on the line in a already very very tight room for error
Yes it’s a hard road forward that’s for sure & just like here so many are still fixated on the past of yesterday’s best , if we clear our heads the older styles don’t come close to a better aligned pill /s for the job @ hand today
it’s just a design & application system we fail to understand what can or can’t occur , if we understand that we can move forward with even better results but a blanket statement like we often see is completely flawed
Yes this line is very true & one that a blanket statement should always apply too but when it goes off the rails even a touch you have 2 types of people here also
One that goes I wouldn’t use that again & another you just get bullets to fail every now & then
so acceptance or wanting better is also a personal decision but still facts remain facts
Lastly I should set the record straight before that is interpreted wrongly or I get labeled on something I’m not on when I say “worked “ for a company
This is factually wrong as I’ve never “worked” for anyone in the industry/s & one that I would be better to use the word/s of see / help /find differences & hopefully a better way forward
I do this all @ no charge
I have received the very odd boxes of projectiles for testing @ no charge from various companies ( I’ve received way more from individuals) but it would be less than I don’t know 100th of 1% of the total pills I use & it’s a few more than a few lol
As I am a firm believer in staying independent & just showing facts , ( I love running theories also & confirm either way & not worried on being wrong as it’s learning )
Thats where “work for “ comes in so please don’t label me as trying to do whatever as I’m about finding the better mousetrap & definatly no financial gain
I’ve been offered employment for my services but if I cross that line I see the parts of you can’t say that or don’t show this as one needs to tow the line of what the boss tells the employee to say/do /show for fear of not getting payed or having a job
Man alive I’ve had one company still try & do it , yes that went down like a lead balloon .
No I do it for love of the journey & finding a better outcome
The only issue I really have is I’m my own boss & I just won’t do what the boss is telling the muppet to do lol but that day is coming as I’ve been put on notice a few times now
Cheers
Good stuff !Gday Brian
Your welcome hopefully the following is one that may get a few ticking in the fascinating world of terminals
So true reality has hit home potentially to a few , others still won’t get it
Using a good true solid over a mushroom pill that is of a mono construction or to a less extent a bonded using old school thoughts is not hard to equal or surpass terminally for some applications if one clears their head but move to a shedding mono or more limited applications a frangible ( the highest trauma pills ) I have failed to see / how to get better terminal results out of a true solid except where penetration is required or velocity is real low where the trauma pill becomes erratic in the terminal journey or lastly deflection
It’s why a true solid & higher trauma causing pill matched together in a dual load is pretty darn hard to improve on ( still room but it’s getting real hard these days ) but all shedding are not equal to the same level & a frangible both have serious weaknesses also if one is not careful & under penetration is more often a issue yet we here so many times that the pill on a broadside shot was found against the hide or in it or in the leg meat yet its so called perfect preformance hmmm define perfect is one that is a individual thing as what are we comparing it to & more importantly how big is the pool it’s against ( this has nothing to do with the need for the pill to stay in the critter as that is a parameter of requirements & one that is vastly different to actual terminal wounds but yes they are some what linked but separate if one wants to get in the fun terminal world )
You see this time after time & once the terminal path is studied / measured & put against other styles or patterns you see these pills all have a taper in the wounds View attachment 705476it also occurs the other way of for better words pencils the first lobe View attachment 705559till it’s expanded to full diameter the gives better wound in 2nd lobe
View attachment 705560but those pills also taper & understanding the different zones a pill has is one that must be understood to get a better understanding of what pill is actually better for the intended situation to come
( pictures are just random critters for illustrations)
So once again knowing the weaknesses of designs & limitation’s is extremely important & this is not when THINGS GO RIGHT as it’s the other side that will give you more insight yep I love to explore & dispatch the critter asap across the many variables that do occur in the field
Also I like to cover as many bases as possible
But I’m darned if I can think of a dual load for elephant so I’m on another path that maybe better than what we already have ????? Time will tell on this & guidances are being sort & put in place from the best in the industry I know of so stay tuned on that
I like watching those types of discussions & don’t overly get to involved in them as I’m way to time poor to get into those especially when you see the mind of the individual is already made up especially when you see wounds like they quote as being great which is correct if you haven’t seen the better ones but defining the best is often harder
There are only a few bullets that are on the market today that can make use of what I’m showing ( the ceb Fn solid surely doesn’t need a introduction lol )
The 375 & that 235 gr hydro is also one but specific it is , I don’t know wether woodleigh will make anymore but it does have limitations so match that to the hatch & watch it outperform any mushroom pill of what is outdated information yet all will still kill yes but the good shedding it hasn’t been able to reach those levels .
In all reality though the 235 is a touch light on buff & better served with a ?250/260 ish weight pill but I doubt it will ever come as on the very brief talk I’ve had with Geoff on the 235 in a 7twist going flat out , his answer to me was “why” due to the 300 version
& all respect to him but that as you come to in a minute is old school thoughts while backed up from good reliability it doesn’t put critters on the ground as quickly if one uses a different method like above, end of story !! but make sure one covers the bases in this scenario is paramount “impact to tip” shows us a lot & one’s own need’s & acceptance level plays in here also
Yes
A better outcome on the
“impact to tip “part dosent concern some but the next generation once they are shown & shoot the different types they see it so easily that the tide is a turning but slowly yes even had some older school thought guys change as I have over time
Yes this goes with above part & why one needs to clear their heads & look @ what’s occurring not what we believe to be the case .
Sectional density in terminal form is extremely different to sectional density in flight
Got a Funny one on SD ( well not really ) I did some work for a bullet company & a zoo that had extremely tight tolerances & criteria's to meet on what a certain bullet needed to do for the few scenarios put forward to me but couldn’t exceed for fear of secondary wounding & I ended up coming up with a combo that filled the roles as best as I could find & yet when the ballistic gurus came back & wanted more sectional density which contradicted what was wanted as a outcome & shown to be the case & I let that be known he better go & clear his head & look what the criteria's were @ the start then study the hard factual evidence yep he was stuck in the past of needing x amount of sectional density to do a job
he had no clue
Yes not funny as lives were on the line in a already very very tight room for error
Yes it’s a hard road forward that’s for sure & just like here so many are still fixated on the past of yesterday’s best , if we clear our heads the older styles don’t come close to a better aligned pill /s for the job @ hand today
it’s just a design & application system we fail to understand what can or can’t occur , if we understand that we can move forward with even better results but a blanket statement like we often see is completely flawed
Yes this line is very true & one that a blanket statement should always apply too but when it goes off the rails even a touch you have 2 types of people here also
One that goes I wouldn’t use that again & another you just get bullets to fail every now & then
so acceptance or wanting better is also a personal decision but still facts remain facts
Lastly I should set the record straight before that is interpreted wrongly or I get labeled on something I’m not on when I say “worked “ for a company
This is factually wrong as I’ve never “worked” for anyone in the industry/s & one that I would be better to use the word/s of see / help /find differences & hopefully a better way forward
I do this all @ no charge
I have received the very odd boxes of projectiles for testing @ no charge from various companies ( I’ve received way more from individuals) but it would be less than I don’t know 100th of 1% of the total pills I use & it’s a few more than a few lol
As I am a firm believer in staying independent & just showing facts , ( I love running theories also & confirm either way & not worried on being wrong as it’s learning )
Thats where “work for “ comes in so please don’t label me as trying to do whatever as I’m about finding the better mousetrap & definatly no financial gain
I’ve been offered employment for my services but if I cross that line I see the parts of you can’t say that or don’t show this as one needs to tow the line of what the boss tells the employee to say/do /show for fear of not getting payed or having a job
Man alive I’ve had one company still try & do it , yes that went down like a lead balloon .
No I do it for love of the journey & finding a better outcome
The only issue I really have is I’m my own boss & I just won’t do what the boss is telling the muppet to do lol but that day is coming as I’ve been put on notice a few times now
Cheers
