Long Range 404J Accuracy?

[rookhawk]

Gents,

I'm not a handloader (by choice...time=money equation issues) so question will be in the context of factory ammo. I just dusted off a custom built 404J that I've not played with much at all and started staring at it. I was thinking about sending it to G&H for a sidemount and to slap a 1-6 straight tube swarovski on it I had lingering for such a project. Before I do that and tie up almost $4000 in scope and mounts to this gun, I wanted some input from the peanut gallery.

Last trip to Africa I had a gun issue (loose forend on my 7x57 and no turn screw!) so I used my .375 for about everything the latter half of the trip. The culmination of this was a 340 yard shot on a bushbuck which surprising to all, hit its mark. I know my Cogswell & Harrison 375 is a laser beam for long range work but it is also not the world's best choice for dangerous game. (e.g. perfect shot on Buffalo does not give me the DRT experience)

For my upcoming hunt this May / June I was contemplating bringing the .404 IF it can provide accuracy out to 350 yards for just such emergency situations that befell my last hunt. I'd primarily use the .404J for Eland and Leopard, perhaps a tuskless if I get a license, but ultimately would want to be able to throw a solid in and take a Klippy at 280 yards too.

So, that was the setup to the question. Will the 404J generally speaking, with factory ammo, give me that same reach out and touch someone accuracy that a 375HH will or is this 404J better suited for iron sight work inside 120 yards? All this matters as I try to plan my gun battery.

 

[sierraone]

Hi rookhawk, Don't know the answers but am watching this thread closely as I will be the proud owner of a .404 in about 6 weeks!

 

[BRICKBURN]

404 Jeffery 400 gr DGX®
Just ran this through my isnipe app

400 grain
.325 BC
2300FPS Muzzle
275 Yard Zero

Inches above and below
100 yards +6.7
150 yards +7.9
200 yards +6.7
250 yards +3
300 yards -3.6
350 yards -13.5
400 yards -27.1 1446 FPS and 1857 Ft lbs out here still.


Apparently it should be just fine.

I have zero clue about the accuracy of this particular ammo.
Each gun likes its own ammo. Testing will be up to you and your gun.

Have fun.

 

[rookhawk]

Thanks @BRICKBURN

The old adage (a true one) is that the 375HH is the do-all rifle. The question will be whether moving to a .404J can still give that "shoot a Klippy at 300 yards" capability of the .375HH. We all know the .404 is superior for the DG options at reasonable DG ranges.

@BRICKBURN do you have a comparison of the 375HH vs 404J both at 100 yard zero for examples?

 

[stug]

Can't see why it wouldn't. The greatest North American trophy sheep (Chadwick ram?) was shot with a 404J.
I've shot a 458 win mag with 350g projectile out to 255yds. A scoped 404 would t be too different.

 

[Ray B]

Loaded with 350 gr Woodleighs I'd consider the trajectory of the 404 to be adequate to 300 yards; but I don't know of any company that factory loads them.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks .................
[USER=2735]@BRICKBURN do you have a comparison of the 375HH vs 404J both at 100 yard zero for examples?[/USER]

375H&H
275 yard zero
250 grain ttsx
2864 FPS

Yards
100 +3.6
200 +3.7
250 +1.6
300 -2.0
350 -7.3
400 -14.5
450 -23.6
500 -35

 

[rookhawk]

Ish. So short answer is that a 404J lobs like a mortar past 150 yards. Not a rifle you reach for to take a long shot on a bushbuck or klippy while on a dangerous game hunt.

I think given that this gun isn't worthy of a G&H mount and a swaro 1-6x24. I think I'll buy a 1-5x Leica and Talley QD mounts and call it done for 1/4 the cost considering it doesn't seem like this rifle should be shot past 200 yards.

Bright news is that it looks like the 404J is a laser beam from 0-150 yards with a 100 yard zero. It's dead on at both 50 and 100 with a 100yard zero. Pretty impressive for Dangerous game margin of safety at DG ranges.

 

[Ray B]

Using the Hornady Ballistics Calculator & load data from Woodleigh Manual I get:
350 gr PPSN BC .293 MV 2575 (3 loads sowed that or higher vel) with "0" @ 225 yds
Range Velocity Trajectory
50 2427 1.7"
100 2284 3.5
150 2146 3.5
200 2012 1.7
250 1884 -2.3
300 1761 -8.7
350 1645 -17.9
400 1535 -30.4

While this clearly is not a 257 weatherby, having a hold-over of 18 inches at 350 yards, which would translate to setting the horizontal crosshair with just a hint of light between it and the animals back, hardly puts it in the class of a mortar. Most would consider that a very makeable shot.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Ish. So short answer is that a 404J lobs like a mortar past 150 yards. Not a rifle you reach for to take a long shot on a bushbuck or klippy while on a dangerous game hunt.
......

You have to be fair to the 404. I am comparing 400 grain factory bullets in the 404 to handload 250 grain in 375 that were loaded for very flat shooting (relatively speaking)

I am sure if you dropped the weight on 404 bullet and reloaded you could get some serious efficiency.

Maybe someone has some other suggestions.

 

[colorado]

I would just shoot the same 400g bullet (A-Frame?) you plan to use on DG as long as it will still expand a bit at 350 yards, sight in 2.5" high at 100 yards (should put you dead on at 25 yards) and practice your hold over at longer ranges. Obviously shooting at longer range is no issue for you. No need to use a different load. I got a cow elk at 225 yards two years ago with my 500 Jeffery 570g TSX's at 2300 fps

 

[nztimb]

Use a scope with a ranging retical and there is no need for holdover.

 

[colorado]

That too

 

[35bore]

Thanks @BRICKBURN

The old adage (a true one) is that the 375HH is the do-all rifle. The question will be whether moving to a .404J can still give that "shoot a Klippy at 300 yards" capability of the .375HH. We all know the .404 is superior for the DG options at reasonable DG ranges.

@BRICKBURN do you have a comparison of the 375HH vs 404J both at 100 yard zero for examples?

The more familiar you become with ANY rifle, the more proficient you become with it. Plain and simple...

Your range/killing range, I believe brickburn clarified in previous post. It would be up to you to determine the range, i.e. your comfort zone.

 

[Ray B]

Or, you could get laser guided smart bullets and skip that range/wind problem altogether.

 

[colorado]

I still hold over, a relic of the past ...

 

[Desperatezulu]

What about a high-BC monolithic? Something like the Peregrine VRG4 320gr bullet. According to Peregrine it's good for 2550f/s and with a G1 BC of 0.418 you should get 10" of drop at 250yds with a 100yd zero. I suspect that with American powders, there'd probably be another 50-100f/s of muzzle velocity to be squeezed out.

Yes, it would require handloading.

 

[colorado]

I guess the question is will it expand at 350 yards and does it matter if it does?

 

[10generation]

I have same question, original .404's had a 300 grain load. Anyone know the trajectory of those?

 

[rookhawk]

Probably flatter shooting (obviously) but it would surely fly poorly because it would be a low BC and SD considering weight and diameter.