Lion hunting SA

Interesting discussion. It is too bad this subject seemed to cause some to break out the soap boxes. CBL would not be my cup of tea. But, I can understand the attraction to the hunting method ie tracking. I for one despise sitting in a blind. I have spent too much of my life hunting from blinds and I have lost all affection for it. Shooting baited animals does not hold an attraction for me. From my perspective the challenge lies with the PH who has to out wit the cat with the right bait, right location, blind setup etc. With that in mind since Botswana is out, where can someone find a wild lion hunt conducted by tracking? I am sure some hunters with the resources would be interested in experiencing a wild lion hunt conducted via tracking. I sure would.
There are 2 options that come to mind immediately. I’m sure there are a few more. One is in Namibia in an area with sandy soil against the corner of South Africa and Botswana. The other is in Nyakasanga in Zambezi valley with a high number of lions. It should be noted as well, I believe it is illegal to bait lions in South Africa. That is why tracking is primary method. Also, every single CBL lion in a hunting area is a shootable animal. There is no need to identify age or pride male or lioness with cubs because there isn’t. Baiting gives better opportunity for more precise identification of the right animal.
 
There are 2 options that come to mind immediately. I’m sure there are a few more. One is in Namibia in an area with sandy soil against the corner of South Africa and Botswana. The other is in Nyakasanga in Zambezi valley with a high number of lions.
Thanks, that's helpful!
 
Very relevant article to this debate. A lot of this occurring on both sides of this debate.
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4,000 acres is hardly a "pen." Wasn't a "wild" hunt but the animals sure acted wild enough. Chased them around very close in very thick stuff all afternoon and then got a couple of charges from the herd bull. That made it wild enough. And it was a cheap hunt. I got my money's worth and more. More than expected.

Speaking of money, I think the high cost of some of these "wild" hunts is what makes them exhilarating ... whether they really are or aren't "hunting." Is anyone going to dump $50K on a baited lion hunt and say it wasn't worth it? Spending fifty grand on a hunt makes the hunter special and for many of these guys being special is what's important. I get that. As I've said before, no one wants to be ordinary. No one worth procreating anyway. But trying to run down other lion hunters who do it on the cheap and, in my opinion, no less ethically is kinda phoney.

I find it odd that you have an ethical problem with baiting wild animals, but no problem chasing a Buffalo in a 4,000 acre fenced in area.
 
The smallest range for lion is 7413 acres and largest is 691,895 acres. As I have said I have zero interest in Captive, Managed or Wild lion, but IMO 4000 acres is a pen based on that the smallest range is 7413 acres. If I was going to hunt/shoot a lion, that would be the minimum acres for a place that I would consider and the larger even better.
 
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In my place I noticed following:
My grandfather hunting mostly birds, including pheasants. He had exclusively bird dogs.
All hunting he did within 50 miles radius, local hunting areas.
It was not uncommon for pheasant to land in our backyard.
That was in the seventies and early eighties.

By now, if I want to hunt pheasants I need to hunt in the north of the country. In my local areas, there is no more pheasants.
What happened is change in local hunting cultures. And "commercialization" of hunting

before pheasants were raised in pens, hunting areas managed from predators, pheasants were popular, and taken care off, wild population was helped with occasional release of birds in spring.
Group hunts for predators organized periodically throughout the season.

Now, nobody wants to do this any more.

Main hunting dogs are those for boar driven hunts. Nobody locally has bird dogs anymore.
For feathered game, main game is now is woodcock, or snipe.
That is migratory bird that stops over during migration to south.

No need to work for this one, it just "drops from the sky".
Foreign hunters come and pay to hunt woodcock. They bring their dogs. Guides make between 50 to 100 euros per day. The hunting clubs get good money for selling hunting rights in the season in their blocks to groups of foreign hunters.
If local hunters go hunting, they go with rifles, for the boars. Many do not keep shotguns any more. If having a shotgun, its kept in the mothballs in the locker.

Nobody cares for pheasants any more, and they disappeared.
The culture and passion for pheasant remained in the north of Croatia. And I go there.
One of my favorite hunts.

Below are photos from my winter pheasant hunt, this December, and a woodcock - earlier this year.
I always take one or two winter pheasant trips with few of my friends.

I apologize to forum members for of topic... but pheasants are my passion, could not resist.

View attachment 576743View attachment 576744View attachment 576745
Had my first pheasant mounted. Love the bird.
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I find it odd that you have an ethical problem with baiting wild animals, but no problem chasing a Buffalo in a 4,000 acre fenced in area.
Wake up. It was a management hunt. Do you know what those are? This cow was 25 years old. She hadn't calved in four years and lost her last two. Drought conditions were hard on her and the rest of the herd. She was in tough shape but still able to keep up with the herd ... for the time being. Look at her in the photo. No meat on her hips or withers. Her days were obviously numbered. I have no ethical issues putting her down. That's what it was supposed to be anyway. Turned out to be a rather exciting hunt. Difficult finding the herd. Suddenly in the thick stuff we were right in the middle of them. Literally. No chance of picking her out. Then we caught them crossing an opening to another forest and I frontal shot her through the heart at 110 yards. After she was down the herd bull came for us ... three times. Yeah, it was JUST a management hunt. But it was interesting. And genuinely exciting. Much more than I expected.
 
SCI and DSC agree with that sentiment completely. So do I. I think there is a difference between a pheasant or chicken or chicken egg for that matter and a lion. Most people do. It is a little more complicated when comparing to ungulates, but again, there is some clear difference in most people's minds between a steer and a lion. The danger thing is real and is a difference between pheasants and lions, but so is getting in the ring with a Spanish fighting bull.

There is a pretty terrible Mark Sullivan video out there where he hunts a CBL. He and his PH, who much of the time looks like one of those American pilots in a Hanoi POW video, track a released lion. They catch up with him and in stentorian tones Sullivan decides it is not the lion's day to die as the camera pans in close on the beasts snarling face - maybe he refused to charge? :E Shrug:. The next day, they promptly picked up the tracks again and shoot him.

So, I will never hunt a lion. I won't spend the resources to hunt one in a wilderness area and have no desire to hunt one in an enclosure. I also won't fly to New Zealand (or drive an hour into the Texas Hill Country) to shoot a red stag behind a fence, but love trying to walk down a far lesser free range animal in Argentina. If I am visiting a trophy room, and the lion story starts out with "there I was in the Limpopo ..." then I'll move on to fix myself another drink. To me it is the same as shooting a hippo or croc in a stock pond. More power to all of you who are not conflicted.

I was raised on a farm in Canada. We raised animals for profit. I see no difference in raising a cow, turkey, pheasant, deer, impala or lion for profit. I do feel that the animal needs to be treated humanely, and, if hunted, that the ‘hunt’ is conducted with integrity. I personally do not wish to participate, but I have no moral or ethical problem with those who do.

I like you, will likely go mix a fresh drink when the conversation turns to the rogue lion from Botswana…
 
Wake up. It was a management hunt. Do you know what those are? This cow was 25 years old. She hadn't calved in four years and lost her last two. Drought conditions were hard on her and the rest of the herd. She was in tough shape but still able to keep up with the herd ... for the time being. Look at her in the photo. No meat on her hips or withers. Her days were obviously numbered. I have no ethical issues putting her down. That's what it was supposed to be anyway. Turned out to be a rather exciting hunt. Difficult finding the herd. Suddenly in the thick stuff we were right in the middle of them. Literally. No chance of picking her out. Then we caught them crossing an opening to another forest and I frontal shot her through the heart at 110 yards. After she was down the herd bull came for us ... three times. Yeah, it was JUST a management hunt. But it was interesting. And genuinely exciting. Much more than I expected.

What do I need to wake up from??

Did you really ask me if I knew what a management hunt was??

Why are you so upset? Did I upset you when I pointed out that you contradicted yourself while talking down to other hunters?

If so, that’s a you problem.
 
So strange that the outfitters and PH's and especially the country get all the flack yet there are many "clients" who willingly participate....
i hope you see i am hiding from no one and thoroughly enjoyed my experience. i have zero problem with flack thrown at me by hunters or anti hunters. never has bothered me whatsoever. i have been very successful in my business life with the same type thinking
 
I think we all missed a key point in this conversation, and just want to highlight it for any young man reading along. It is cheaper to hire a prostitute than it is marry a whore.

Thanks for getting us back on track.
 
I think we all missed a key point in this conversation, and just want to highlight it for any young man reading along. It is cheaper to hire a prostitute than it is marry a whore.
lol that's awesome...never heard that one before!
 
I think we all missed a key point in this conversation, and just want to highlight it for any young man reading along. It is cheaper to hire a prostitute than it is marry a whore.

Had only I read this before my second marriage! Would have saved me a lot of money. Could have afforded the wild lion hunt.
 
What do I need to wake up from??

Did you really ask me if I knew what a management hunt was??

Why are you so upset? Did I upset you when I pointed out that you contradicted yourself while talking down to other hunters?

If so, that’s a you problem.
I fail to see how chasing a management cow buffalo around on 4,000 acres is a contradiction to baiting a lion or tracking one that's just been kicked out of a pen. That cow spent all of her twenty-five years living on that acreage, which is far from a "pen," and I didn't shoot her over bait. The hunt involved some genuine stalking of animals that were genuinely wary. There is no contradiction and you only make yourself look foolish trying to make one up.
 

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