Light Weight 458 Lott Bullets

[ldmay375]

I may have put the cart before the horse, since I have not worked up a load for the 350 grain North Fork Cup Point. I now have a respectable supply of these.
I am optimistic that I can find a suitably accurate one for 100 yards and under shooting of North American type animals.

Hoping that 2350 / 2400 FPS is rather easily achievable in a 22” barrel 458 Winchester and a bit more in a 22” barrel Lott.

I would like to see at least 1800 FPS in my son’s 18” barrel 45-70. My 45-70’s are 20” barrels. I don’t see these being used at over 50 yds for any serious intent. For these, it will either be the North Fork or the Leigh 380 grain copper flat point.

 

[michael458]

Hoping that 2350 / 2400 FPS is rather easily achievable in a 22” barrel 458 Winchester

I tested in 24 inch 458 Winchester 2013 350 North Fork Expanding CPS...... 74/RL 10X 2542 fps 56000 PSI, 70/RL 7 2545 fps at 59000 PSI, and 67/H-4198 2516 fps at 61000 PSI..................

I think 2400 fps in 22 inches will be very achievable..... and well under pressures...........

a bit more in a 22” barrel Lott

I only tested one load with the 350 CPS in 458 Lott.......... 80/H-322 for 2641 fps at 55000 PSI

I will see if I can find any data on 45/70 in the morning...............

Naturally one should use proper workup methods with this data, it was taken in 2013, along with pressure data, but keep in mind, todays powders are not the same as 2013 blends......... use proper protocols when using the data provided, starting well under listed and working up.............

 

[ldmay375]

Thank you Michael !
Absolutely on the safety protocols.

 

[michael458]

With the two expanding CPS in 45/70, I spent more time and effort with the 325 instead of the 350s.

With the 325 CPS I had from 1950 to a tad over 2000 fps with various different rifles and 52/RL 7......this load tested at 45500 psi, which is max for the Marlins...... 51/RL 7 tested at 43000 PSI and that is probably the load I would go with........

The only load I have listed with the 350 CPS in 45/70 is 50/RL 7 1941 fps, and it appears that I used that to test some terminals, and not much more. No pressure data on the 350s.............

RL 7 is probably the best overall powder I have used in 45/70, but do keep in mind, RL 7 properties change from keg to keg, forget Lot#s........... I use a lot of RL 7 for many things, and I always blend several pounds together, and test that blend again........

Absolutely on the safety protocols.

Yes, these things have to be mentioned for the masses........ LOL............

My Powder is Not Your Powder, so load responsibly always..............

 

[ldmay375]

Thanks again for this information, and the heaps of testing information you have shared.
I have a few pounds of RL 7. That has been a rare find in my local area. H-322 has been illusive as Bigfoot.

I definitely wanted to try the 325 cup point in the 45-70 and the 400’s in the 458’s. But, the 350’s were the only ones that I could locate.
The 350’s may actually be the best for my purposes in the 458 Winchester and Lott.

They likely will be fine for the 45-70 also. Those test results of the 350 and 325 compared to hard cast 420 / 460 grain flat points definitely gave me a different perspective on performance for a lever rifle.
I am not going to totally shat-can my hard cast but a no see a downside to better performance and possibly a little less recoil on the shooter and lever rifle.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I'm always interested in the .458 Lott loads, but I struggle to understand why there is a desire for the lighter bullets. With the lower BC bullets it seems like the Lott is dying hard, blowing out energy like crazy, and falling out of the sky at the same time too. Would it not be more prudent to just back off of a heavier bullet and save the energy and drop a little bit?

 

[ldmay375]

I'm always interested in the .458 Lott loads, but I struggle to understand why there is a desire for the lighter bullets. With the lower BC bullets it seems like the Lott is dying hard, blowing out energy like crazy, and falling out of the sky at the same time too. Would it not be more prudent to just back off of a heavier bullet and save the energy and drop a little bit?

Merely a different methoto skin a cat.
Speaking to North American game, I personally consider my 458’s as 100 yard/meter cartridges. If terrain dictates otherwise, I will be using a different cartridge.

Even with dismal BC’s, the flat points and cup points are not going to fall out of the sky at 100 meters with a very conservative muzzle velocity of 2300-2500 FPS. 70 yards would be a realistic long shot for my use, 25 and under more likely.

I would have no hesitation using 450 grain TSX loaded to a safe maximum for the 458 Winchester or Lott. The 2ea 458 Lott rifles that I have will accept this bullets overall length when crimped in the forward groove.
I do not have any on hand, but would also use a 450 grain A-Frame loaded to a safe maximum.

 

[ldmay375]

This bullet is what I thought would be a near perfect North American type game load for 458 Winchester or Lott.

Though I would like the velocity upped to 2350-2400 FPS for the Winchester. The new shiny load 458 Winchester load advertises 2250 FPS. I am sure even at this lowly velocity it would work fine.

 

[ldmay375]

Had issues captioning picture.
The purchase price of the box on the left was $49.99 USA dollars. At that time, I thought that was expensive.

 

[TOBY458]

Had issues captioning picture.
The purchase price of the box on the left was $49.99 USA dollars. At that time, I thought that was expensive.
View attachment 440788

Brown Bear medicine....

 

[ldmay375]

Brown Bear medicine....

I would think so and a thumper of moose at closer range.

 

[ldmay375]

I would like to thank @michael458 for penetration testing this bullet. It tested out more than favorably compared to more conventional designs in heavier weight classes.

In the picture it is labeled 400 grain. This was a very early production. It has since been reclassified as 404 grain.

With its bc, there is no need to worry about it falling from sky because of it 404 grain weight. I found it easy to get 2400-2500 + fps with this bullet in a 458 Lott with a 24" barrel.

It will be a few weeks before I have time to shoot groups at any distance. From what I saw at close range when chronographing, I expect it to be more than amply accurate.

 

[ldmay375]

For visual perspective.
.458 Bullets from Left to Right:
450 grain Barnes TSX
404 grain Hammer Shock Hammer
400 grain Swift A-Frame

 

[SRvet]

This is a reassuring thread as later this year I’m doing my first DG hunt with my son (Cape Buff cow). Bullet supply is truly dismal over here, but I got hold of 2 boxes of 450g TSX that are now doing 2214fps. I’m hoping that is good to go. I haven’t been able to get any solids other than some steel jacketed 500g winchester RN so they may have to do. We are taking a .375 as well and have found sourcing bullets in that calibre much easier

 

[michael458]

I would like to thank @michael458 for penetration testing this bullet. It tested out more than favorably compared to more conventional designs in heavier weight classes.

You are more than welcome, no thanks needed...........The 400 Hammers proved to be "Buffalo Worthy" causing a lot of destruction to medium and also meet penetration requirements to work for first shots on buffalo with ease. Buffalo are the Ultimate for a big bore Trauma Inflicting bullet. If it works good enough for buffalo, then it will do everything else with ease.........

 

[michael458]

450g TSX that are now doing 2214fps. I’m hoping that is good to go. I haven’t been able to get any solids other than some steel jacketed 500g winchester RN so they may have to do

You will be 100% good to go with the 450 TSX at 2214 fps.......... However your 500 gr Win RN leave a hell of a lot to be desired....... I strongly urge you to phone up Cutting Edge Bullets and get yourself some 450 gr CEB Safari BBW#13 Solids..........I am not sure where you might be located.........Or when you plan to hunt....... ?

 

[SRvet]

You will be 100% good to go with the 450 TSX at 2214 fps.......... However your 500 gr Win RN leave a hell of a lot to be desired....... I strongly urge you to phone up Cutting Edge Bullets and get yourself some 450 gr CEB Safari BBW#13 Solids..........I am not sure where you might be located.........Or when you plan to hunt....... ?

Hi Michael
Thanks for the advice. I’m located in the UK. After Brexit the ability to ship from the US to UK seemed to stop as the normal courier services refuse to take anything firearms related so we currently struggle for things that are not frequently sold. For some reason I can get .375 and 416 components easily but not .458 solids. Hornady are generally the most readily available brand but I haven’t found any DGS solids in stock yet. The Winchester solids were a gift from another very kind shooter and I figured they would be better than nothing. I will keep trying to find some… still a few months to go

 

[SRvet]

You will be 100% good to go with the 450 TSX at 2214 fps.......... However your 500 gr Win RN leave a hell of a lot to be desired....... I strongly urge you to phone up Cutting Edge Bullets and get yourself some 450 gr CEB Safari BBW#13 Solids..........I am not sure where you might be located.........Or when you plan to hunt....... ?

Hi Michael
Thanks for the advice. I’m located in the UK. After Brexit the ability to ship from the US to UK seemed to stop as the normal courier services refuse to take anything firearms related so we currently struggle for things that are not frequently sold. For some reason I can get .375 and 416 components easily but not .458 solids. Hornady are generally the most readily available brand but I haven’t found any DGS solids in stock yet. The Winchester solids were a gift from another very kind shooter and I figured they would be better than nothing. I will keep trying to find some… still a few months to go

 

[michael458]

I’m located in the UK.

Yes, I am sorry, that will be problematic.........North Fork is in Europe, any chance of getting those?

 

[SRvet]

Yes, I am sorry, that will be problematic.........North Fork is in Europe, any chance of getting those?

That’s a good idea, I’ll try them. Thanks for the help