Light, flat & fast...What round should I choose?

[odonata]

Savage Custom Shop will make you a left hand 257 Roberts or 25-06, or nearly any other caliber. The 257 on the short action or 25-06 on the long action. Your choice of caliber, barrel length, barrel profile, trigger, stock, etc.

Shaw Custom Barrels has a similar offering where a shooter can choose from a variety of options to build a custom rifle (including left-handed models).

...you are in fact be chasing rainbows as you ponder hypervelocity quarter-bore offerings.

Your best solution, shortest route to success...is to load up some 140 ELDMs for your lovely 6.5x55 No. 1 and go forth in full confidence. Yes, I do believe you will get the results you seek... but by going to a heavier, more streamlined, cup-n-core, wind defying bullet.

The reason I don't have any rifles with the characteristics I described in my original post is for the reasons @Old3Toe listed above. I currently own several nice rifles that fall into this category. If I was going to retitle this thread, it would probably be "If I decide to go chasing hypervelocity quarter-bores at the end of a rainbow, what do you recommend?". So the purpose of my original question was to simply get more opinions about a range of bullet weights I currently don't shoot. Do I need one? What is the best choice if I decide to acquire one? Should I continue to stay put with the excellent options I already own? These were the questions I was pondering.

I used a .25-06 successfully on Golden Wildebeest, Hartebeest and Blesbok. All were taken 375-400 yds. I used Nosler 115 grain spitzer partitions. Wicked caliber.

A good real-world confirmation of what I was envisioning this new rifle to be used for.

In competition, 6.5s are a chip shot @700 with high BC bullets.

As to the slew of more modern offerings like .25 PRC, .25 Creedmoor etc. there is a point of no return for light bullets in as much as the twist rates are designed for long, heavy for caliber bullets (130+ gr) which makes them less than ideal for odonata's "light" criteria.

By focusing on lower-weight bullets, I assumed I was going to negate some of the advantages of more modern chamberings (e.g. the 7mm PRC) by eliminating a few long, heavy, high-BC bullet choices they were designed to shoot. Shooting heavier bullets like that out of my LH Sako 30-06 is probably the main thing that's stopped me from buying something smaller & lighter.

PS: as to the 6.5 "Needmore", it is not what you are looking for, but if you are going that route, have some dignity, get a 6.5x55 Swede, or better yet a 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer

I've never seen a left-handed Mannlicher Schoenauer so that's why I don't have one in my safe. I love the classics! My 6.5x55 is a favorite & I've taken more deer with it than any other cartridge. So buying a LH Tikka or Sako in that chambering & setting it up to shoot a 120gr bullet is not totally out of the question.

"I'm curious if anyone is doing something on the edges (e.g. How low can you go weight-wise with a 7x64 Brenneke?)."
I shoot 7x64 RWS 123 gr. cone point ammunition into tiny little groups out of my Sako M85 Bavarian. Used it to take only one whitetail deer so far, but the combination seems flawless for a fast, light, deadly deer capable load. If I didn't have a large quantity of 140 and 160 gr. ammo on hand already, I'd use that loading more. And the cartridge is capable of doing much heavier work, with bullets up to 175 gr. it covers a wide spectrum of game sizes.

I really like my left-handed Steyr CL II. The reason I asked that question was because I saw the Steyr SM12 could be acquired in 7x64 so I was kind of curious how low people were going with it & what the results were. Thanks for the feedback! This rifle also comes in 25-06, 6.5x55 & 270 Win so it's like a Siren's Song luring me towards another bad financial decision...

 

[hoytcanon]

I really like my left-handed Steyr CL II. The reason I asked that question was because I saw the Steyr SM12 could be acquired in 7x64 so I was kind of curious how low people were going with it & what the results were. Thanks for the feedback! This rifle also comes in 25-06, 6.5x55 & 270 Win so it's like a Siren's Song luring me towards another bad financial decision...

View attachment 735185

If you like that rifle... the .25-06 solves your problem, although personally, I would go with the 6.5X55 and launch the 120 Ballistic Tip or even the 100 grain. If you gotta be different, pop off the barrel, set it back and rechamber to 6.5-284.

 

[odonata]

If you like that rifle... the .25-06 solves your problem...

One question I have (that will potentially derail my own thread onto a tangent...) is how well does a 25-06 work in a 558mm / 22" barrel? With some of the slower burning powders used to load this round, some shooters are more adamant in their opinion that 24"+ is a more optimal length for this round.

But what are the actual downsides? The loss of a few hundred fps is tolerable. A large flash of excess burning powder being wasted as it continues to burn outside the barrel could be more problematic. Are there certain handloads that work better on a 25-06 if its being fired from a shorter barrel?

 

[Philip Glass]

As far as rifles go, I really have everything I require to do all the hunting I'm currently considering. While I don't need to buy any more firearms, unfortunately that doesn't negate the desire to add more of them to my safe.

I have this one small gap in my lineup that I keep telling myself doesn't need to be filled. But for reasons unknown, it annoys & my mind keeps returning to it. At the small varmint end I have a nice left-handed Cooper that is chambered in 22-250 Remington that I shoot 55gr bullets out of. Then there's a jump to my Ruger No. 1A chambered in 6.5x55 that I shoot 140gr Partitions from.

Because most of the hunting I do is at moderate distances in the brushy southeastern woods, the fact that I don't own a rifle chambered for something light, fast & flat-shooting that's bigger than my 22-250 hasn't really been a problem. But as I start to ease into retirement, I hope to expand my range a bit so I thought I would ask for some opinions so I can mull over some options. Here's the criteria:

I want the bullet to be in the 90~117gr range. Lighter or heavier than that & I have other options than a new rifle already available to me.

I want a rifle that is larger than 224 (22 cal) and smaller than 308. So 6mm, 243, 257, 6.5mm, 270, or 7mm would be good choices. While some of these are obviously appropriate for the projectile weight I'm interested in, I'm curious if anyone is doing something on the edges (e.g. How low can you go weight-wise with a 7x64 Brenneke?).

It would be nice if the bullet / caliber combo was good at taking something antelope-sized at longer distances than I currently hunt at. Based on my shooting ability & eyesight, I doubt I'll ever pull the trigger on anything that is over ~350 meters away except for a target. But I guess that might change based on ideal conditions or how flat the round shoots.

You get bonus points if the round you suggest is available in a left-handed rifle.

In the past, I've come close to buying a left-handed 25-06 on a couple of occasions only to pass for various reasons. A 257 Roberts has a nostalgic appeal but no one ever made a left-handed rifle in that chambering so I would have to rebarrel or get a custom (not a problem!). I pondered over a custom LH Cooper in 6mm-284 for a while because the price was really tempting but I hesitated because it was an uncommon chambering. I have eight falling blocks so I would prefer this to be a bolt action. Some of the larger calibers like the 270 or 7mm have some lightweight bullets like a 110gr Barnes but it would be nice to hear if someone is shooting something like that & how well it worked. I assume someone will recommend the 243 Winchester just to annoy @Bob Nelson 35Whelen. The ubiquitous 6.5 Creedmoor is a viable LH option but I feel like I would be slighting my beloved Swede if I bought one...change my mind.

I may be of no help because I'd say 7mm REM Mag in 160g Barnes TSX. That would be my light bullet!

 

[odonata]

I may be of no help because I'd say 7mm REM Mag in 160g Barnes TSX. That would be my light bullet!

I always appreciate someone taking the time to provide an opinion. The 7mm Rem Mag is one of the chamberings that is readily available to southpaw shooters. So that's a big plus. I currently have about seven rifles I could load a ~160gr bullet into. So even if that is a spectacular weight to choose, it feels more like a lateral move instead of a new option to explore the potential of. It's not a bad suggestion or unworthy of consideration. It's just not the target of this particular research.

 

[hoytcanon]

One question I have (that will potentially derail my own thread onto a tangent...) is how well does a 25-06 work in a 558mm / 22" barrel? With some of the slower burning powders used to load this round, some shooters are more adamant in their opinion that 24"+ is a more optimal length for this round.

But what are the actual downsides? The loss of a few hundred fps is tolerable. A large flash of excess burning powder being wasted as it continues to burn outside the barrel could be more problematic. Are there certain handloads that work better on a 25-06 if its being fired from a shorter barrel?

Over the span of 2", you are likely giving up less than 100 fps... the smaller the bore and the faster the cartridge, the more speed you give per inch (in general). If you like that rifle, the 22" barrel would not deter me for the .25-06 or the 6.5X55.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

The 25 WSSM would make-up into the ultimate light-weight handy carbine. The 25 WSSM is on par with the .257 Bob AI.

 

[hoytcanon]

The 25 WSSM would make-up into the ultimate light-weight handy carbine. The 25 WSSM is on par with the .257 Bob AI.

Any WSSM cartridge is a terrible suggestion. Necking down the .270 WSM to 6.5mm, would be a reasonable option for a handloader.

 

[Gunnie]

I may be of no help because I'd say 7mm REM Mag in 160g Barnes TSX. That would be my light bullet!

I used 150 TTSXs in mine for Kudu and Wildebeest.

 

[Rob.450/400]

I had a similar "itch" recently. I added a 257 Weatherby Magnum just two weeks ago. I have had it out on several occasions. I am beyond impressed with the laser-like trajectory and highly manageable recoil. My order of .257 92-grain Hammer bullets has arrived, and I am looking forward to pushing these out in the 3600-3700 fps velocity range (plus or minus).

 

[ruffcountry]

.257 wby

 

[Old3Toe]

But what are the actual downsides? The loss of a few hundred fps is tolerable. A large flash of excess burning powder being wasted as it continues to burn outside the barrel could be more problematic. Are there certain handloads that work better on a 25-06 if it's being fired from a shorter barrel?

Outside of muzzle brakes, nobody ever talks about this. The negative flash-bang effect of high intensity cartridges and loads on the shooter. Oh wait, never mind. That's the door opener to suppressors, shortened barrels, overbore high velocity to compensate, wearing earpro anyway... and we're somehow right back performance wise to where we started--nearly a hundred and fifty years ago.

To your question about loading a 25-06 in a shorter barrel... yes there are bullet powder combos that might, maybe, kinda-sorta come close to replicating the performance AND pleasantries of your 6.5x55 in a shorter barrel. So if you like picking your strawberries from a stepladder, I'd say go for it.

 

[akrifleman]

Was there any real world improvement on the original?

One of the better ones. Real world easy to fireform, easy to get a reamer with a modern hat (chamber geometry), easy to load for, and cases that last. And usually very accurate (bad barrels notwithstanding).

 

[One Day...]

...
A good real-world confirmation of what I was envisioning this new rifle to be used for.
...

FYI, this was a question in my mind too, the real-world usefulness of a small caliber for PG. I will spare you the research (including a few threads here on AH)
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...-antelopes-opinions-please.45286/#post-478661

To make a long story short, the 257 Wby has been incredibly effective. When I tested it the first time in Africa, I went on a dedicated PG and MG (mountain game) safari in the Eastern Cape, and used it for a long string of one shot kills from Vaal Rhebok to Roan. I experienced 100% one-shot-kill reliability on 17 animals.
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ill-safaris-even-better-than-last-year.52376/

Now, in truth Roan in Africa, or Elk in the USA, are probably a little past the upper limit for the caliber. Yes, the 100 gr TTSX launched by the .257 Wby kills elks every year in the US, but my personal view is that you must limit yourself to behind-the-shoulder-double lung/heart shots when using a 100 gr .257 slug for this class of animals. But if you do that, the results are absolutely astonishing.

I have owned .222, .223, .22/250, .243, 6 Rem, 6.5x54 MS, .270 Win, 7x64, 7x65R, 7 Rem, .308, .30-06, .300 Win, .300 Wby, .338 Win, .340 Wby, 9.3x62, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .458 Win, .458 Lott, .450 #2, .470 NE, Lord, what do I forget? and I can state unambiguously that the .257 Wby is the most versatile caliber I ever used.

No, I will not try it on Buffalo, as Roy did (a stunt if you ask me), and when I go specifically after select trophies in the 500+ lbs. class I bolt on the .300 Wby barrel on the R8, but in truth, I now use the .257 Wby 100 gr TTSX for most of my PG and MG hunting.

 

[akrifleman]

Any WSSM cartridge is a terrible suggestion. Necking down the .270 WSM to 6.5mm, would be a reasonable option for a handloader.

WSSMs are awful. Loss of magazine capacity, with the worst feeding problems of any cartridges extant, and super finicky to load. I don't know anyone who purchased one that didn't offload it within a year. They seemed like the new direction on paper, but they are brutal in practice.

 

[One Day...]

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Has anyone ever done an "Ackley" improvement on the X57 case? I don't recall one, but it will be a blue wonder if they HAVEN'T.

@steve white
The 35 Mitchell express is an Ackley improved 8x57 case.
Bob

 

[akrifleman]

One question I have (that will potentially derail my own thread onto a tangent...) is how well does a 25-06 work in a 558mm / 22" barrel? With some of the slower burning powders used to load this round, some shooters are more adamant in their opinion that 24"+ is a more optimal length for this round.

But what are the actual downsides? The loss of a few hundred fps is tolerable. A large flash of excess burning powder being wasted as it continues to burn outside the barrel could be more problematic. Are there certain handloads that work better on a 25-06 if its being fired from a shorter barrel?

So, you're kinda going backwards in a sense. If your goal is a short barrel, than long ratio cartridges become inefficient. There is a lot more to it then how many fps you lose (powders, blast, chamber to match bullets). You would still probably be very happy with a 257 AI or 25-06, but if your trying for a "ultimate" short action short barrel lazer, it gets tricky fast. 6.5 PRC necked to quarter, or 25x284 are more realistic. A lot of work for little gain. Being said, quarter bores match open country game. No real advantage to cutting barrels down for this. Flute a 25" or 24" and save aggravation.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Was there any real world improvement on the original?

@Sideshow
Read Ackleys book.
Some shows improvement, some didn't.
There were only a few he considered showed enough improvement to be worth while at the time. Cartridges like the 22-259, 30-30,257 Roberts, 250 Savage and a few others. Some like the 35 Whelen AI only extended case like and didn't show enough gain to be worth it. His idea was to extend case life and reduce back thrust not necessarily velocity gain.
He even took the locking lugs out of a 30-30 to show how well his cartt griped the chamber even at higher velocities and pressure.
It's a great read but some of his loads are what would be called down right dangerous nowadays.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

One question I have (that will potentially derail my own thread onto a tangent...) is how well does a 25-06 work in a 558mm / 22" barrel? With some of the slower burning powders used to load this round, some shooters are more adamant in their opinion that 24"+ is a more optimal length for this round.

But what are the actual downsides? The loss of a few hundred fps is tolerable. A large flash of excess burning powder being wasted as it continues to burn outside the barrel could be more problematic. Are there certain handloads that work better on a 25-06 if its being fired from a shorter barrel?

@odonata
Firing a 25-06 from a 22" barrel has very little effect on velocity
But
A 257 Weatherby from a 22" barrel turns it into a 25-06. That round really benefits from a 26" pipe to burn 79 plus grains of powder.
Bib