Life After The Indian Hunting Ban

Kawshik Rahman

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Mr Rehman
My point is that Project Tiger was not related to being a vegetarian
It was aimed and is aimed at saving the stciex
PSRaghav
Alright. Is that where your conflict with me lies ? Not trying to discredit me , but clashing with my political views ?
Fine , alright. I am bowing down .
If all of our conflict over the last few days is rooted due to my political statements , then l am truly apologetic that they hurt anyone . I post here for recreational purposes about hunting , to contribute to this community and give them an idea about hunting in the old days . No two people can have the same views of politics or ethics . It does not mean that we have to discredit each other . I always hoped that l would drink coffee one day with the famous Prasant Singh and talk about our hunting experiences ( like calibres , close calls and the like ) and compare the differences in our respective eras . I never imagined that l would , of all places , cross paths with this person ( whom l am an avid fan of ) in an argument about Indian politics .
In case , my political comments offended you , then l am publicly saying in front of the whole forum : I am truly apologetic for being insensitive in some of the lines that l wrote . It was not my intention.
If a man says " some Hindus drink cow urine " it does not mean the masses do . Just like if someone says that some Muslims are terrorists , it does not mean that the Muslim masses are terrorists .
Again , l am publicly apologizing on these forums for the sake of everyone publicly , that l was insensitive in my comments about politics .
About fire arm confiscation , numerous ( but not all , obviously ) fire arms from Shikaris were confiscated in 1972 .
Initially , the forest officials merely stopped issuing new Shikar licenses , but eventually they revoked all existing license as well for Shikar .
 

PSRaghav

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Mr Rehman
A lot of strange things go around in this world
Some humans eat Human flesh
The famous dictator from Uganda is said to have done that
That I feel is a personal choice
I am no one to judge
And it is beyond the realms of a hunting forum

Let us talk hunting here
And when we talk hunting
Let's discuss the facts
 

Kawshik Rahman

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Mr Rehman
A lot of strange things go around in this world
Some humans eat Human flesh
The famous dictator from Uganda is said to have done that
That I feel is a personal choice
I announced one to judge
And it is beyond the realms of a hunting forum
PSRaghav
That , we can agree on . Again , my sincerest apologies . Even at the age of 77 , l will always bow my head down publicly to anyone who's sentiments l have hurt. It is not who l am , as a person .
 

Bullhunter

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I not once , in my writing ever accused normal "masses" of Hindus drinking cow urine. I only said SOME Hindus practice(d) this .

You can see it in TV / Youtube often.
I dont know why they do it, or if it is healty in mordern India.
(And I dont want to blame them, no. I only see it there and in some shops also, there you can bought urin for 30 dollars, in glases, from special, holy cows.)

Here are two examples:


 

PSRaghav

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Rehman Sir
I don't drink cow urine
Neither am I a vegetarian
You need not apologise to me
You have not hurt my feelings
I repeat
I only wish to clear lots of miscinceptimis about my country and its people
 

Bullhunter

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Here are TV-reports in english:

(Again: I dont want to blame somebody, or an religion, or the holy cows or...)


 

PSRaghav

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Bull Hunter
I just mentioned that
It's a matter of belief
Just like some cultures may eat dog meat
While others may prefer horse meat
I am a horse lover and ride regularly . I love horses yet
I am no one to judge nor do I wish to.
We are free people and should do what we feel is Ethical......and like I said earlier . Ethics may differ from people to people
The Vegans feel they should not even use animal products .
That's fine with me . Let them practice . Why should I complain

Now let's come to the facts
The tiger was threatened and was at the verge of extinction
It was heavily hunted as a trophy ,and poached
That is when Project Tiger was launched
The first park chosen was
Corbett National Park
Named after the famous hunter Jim Corbett
 

PSRaghav

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Mr Gurpreet Singh.
A well known hunter and author will be joining us shortly and posting here
He will talk about the gun laws during Rehman Sirs period and Shikar
I am not capable in answering those questions because I was born in 1971
I hope members will listen to what he has to say with patience and with an open mind .
 
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The British came into India through Bengal. They first settled in Calcutta. They were the ones who laid down the hunting rules and regulations. Darjeeling being a part of West Bengal, I found it hard to believe that one could get a permit for a tiger with a 12 bore gun.

So I consulted two friends
1. Gurpreet Singh author of the book "Roars and Trumpets" Tales from the wild .......published by Natraj Publishers . A book that deals with tiger and elephant shikar in Assam at the same time when Rehman saab was hunting his tigers in Darjeeling.
The author is an ex Tea Planter and is now retired and settled in Chandigarh
Presently he is working on his second book " A planter remembers"

2. Dr Sutanu Chatterjee from Calcutta. Dr Chatterjee is a doctor by profession and was working for the West Bengal state government Hospitals. He is now retired and settled in Calcutta.He is a registered elephant hunter and has shot 9 Rogue elephants till date.

Both senior shikaris have informed me that : The law was the same throughout India
.375 magnum was the minimum calibre required for Tiger .

I have requested both these gents to join this group and contribute
I know nothing about India’s brief permitting system after independence and before the hunting ban. However, before independence at least, one of the more popular guns used by the British sportsmen (often Army officers) was the Paradox - particularly in 12 bore (but also built in 20, 16, and 10). Created by Holland & Holland before the turn of the century it’s partially rifled barrels fired both shot for small game or a specially designed 740 gr bullet for large game - often tigers. The other British houses soon followed suit, with Westley Richards likely producing more than anyone else in their explorer series. My own is an Evans produced prior to the First World War. For a young officer headed out to the Raj, it was ideal so he did not have to own a separate express rifle.

And of course Jim Corbett was famously presented with a Rigby .275 by the Lieutenant Governor of the United Provinces of India for dispatching the Champawat Tigress - a rifle he went on to use on several other man eaters during his long career. He is not alone in the literature in using rifles smaller than .375.

In that post-independence period, I presume most permits, as they are today everywhere I have hunted, were issued in the name of the client? I assume the client’s rifle was what was listed. And once most guns became illegal, I would guess many regions would have been delighted to have a brave professional hunter take on a man-eater however he might be personally armed. It must be a relief to the government today to have volunteers like yourself who are armed with modern rifles and optics who can do this work.
 

mark-hunter

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Mr Rehman
My point is that Project Tiger was not related to being a vegetarian
It was aimed and is aimed at saving the species

As unbiased reader, my observation is that all hunting was banned in India (with minor exemption of problematic animals)
and not only that tiger hunting was banned.

However - total hunting ban, may reflect to predominant non hunting culture in the country.
 

Kawshik Rahman

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In regards to fire arms laws , in our time , l can state the following with certainty :
Foreign client Shikaris could bring two fire arms into the country .

They could also bring a maximum of 250 loaded cartridges into the country . The first one hundred cartridges were duty free as were the two fire arms .

These were the calibres which were prohibited :
.303 bore
.410 musket or shot-gun
.38 bore
.44 bore and .45 bore

It was ( on paper ) against game department regulations to use anything smaller than a .400 bore for Gaur or Indian water buffalo . However , this was not strongly enforced and countless clients killed these animals with .375 Holland and Holland magnum calibre rifles .
I cannot comment on the more intricate details of paper work , because ( as l have repeatedly stated in my last twenty articles here ) my employer would handle them , and l never bothered to ask about things which did not concern me at all.

Even though , .45 calibre armaments were prohibited on paper , on repeated occasions , Indian customs allowed clients to bring .458 Winchester magnum calibre rifles into the country .

And l will stand my ground , that at the very least , in Darjeeling 12 bores were commonly and legally used by local Shikaris for hunting Royal Bengal tigers .
I never broke the law even during my youth .
 

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Werner Fend - I have many of his unpublished material in my archive / copyright permission from his wife for later articles - has used mostly 7 or 9 mm rifles and also .44 single action revolvers to hunt many man-eaters in India in the 1960 and 1970.
He was hired from the government / state / town officaly.

He used shootguns also, but only in emergency cases for tiger and leopards.

I believe to remember, that he changed from the .375 to the .458, because the .375 appeared to him for man-eaters too little in the thick cover.
If desired, I can read the days times.
Here is an incomplete list of his books.
You would have to google, if they are also available in English language.
Unfortunately he died in 1997 at the age of only 70.
What could he not have contributed in this forum ?
Carpe diem.


  • Tiger vor der Kamera - Auf Jagd in Indiens Dschungel. Wollzeilen, Wien 1968.
  • Die Tiger von Abutschmar - Auf der Jagd nach den letzten menschenfressenden Raubkatzen des indischen Bergdschungels. Molden, Wien 1972, ISBN 3-217-00456-6.
  • Tiger - Ein Jagdbericht aus dem indischen Bergdschungel. Rowohlt, Reinbek 1975, ISBN 3-499-16897-9.
  • Ich jagte Menschenfresser - Abenteuer mit Menschen, Tieren und Dämonen. Delphin, München - Zürich 1983, ISBN 3-7735-5165-7.
  • Mein Dschungelbuch. Falken, Niedernhausen/Ts. 1991, ISBN 3-8068-4537-9
 

mark-hunter

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Gents, let me paraphrase in picture... but all the key words are here.... I just could not resist!

hunter.jpg
 

Bullhunter

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I believe to remember, that he changed from the .375 to the .458, because the .375 appeared to him for man-eaters too little in the thick cover.
That is correct.

He has more than 20 journey to India, I think.
He uses the "heavy calibers .375 / .458" for elephant also.

For the man-eaters, he uses normaly - not ever - the calibers I wrote.
 

Bullhunter

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Some of the book of Werner Fend.
He had written some more, also TV-series and films (more than 20 directly).
 

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Bullhunter

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Dear Mister Kawshik Rahman,

I read now in 5 old German books, in witch german hunters write about tiger hunting.
There is no word of an minimum caliber.
Mostly they use an "weaker" caliber as the .357 Mag.
 

Bullhunter

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This is from the book: Mit dem Drilling durch Vorderasien (1967).
The authors write: That the Shikaris had rifles for bullets (on an other side an 7 mm Kaliber), they are good shoots, but then they hunt (or guide) tigers, they use their shootguns. Because they think they are more praktical - with the rough shoot - in the thick bush.
 

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Bullhunter

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This is from the book: Auf Hase und Tiger (2001)
The hinter was ofical guided by an Shikari (in German: Förster) and that the hunter use an 9,3 rifle and the Shikari (on an other side) later
find his rifle excellent.
 

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mark-hunter

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Ever since I went on my African Safari
I have been an advocate of trophy hunting .


@PSRaghav

Sir, being an african hunting forum, this has caught my interest.

Could you please share your experiences with us? Are you happy with your outfitter, can you recommend?
Which country did you go hunting? What animals? Have you hunted DG, Lion, leopards - since you already have experience with cats in India?

Finally, could you share some photos with us from African safari? And also from Indian shikar, if available?

I hope I am not asking too much, but all of us are passionate about the sport, and enjoy and appreciate to read about experiences of such well known and great hunters such as yourself, and from which we can learn something!
 

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This is from the book: Auf Hase und Tiger (2001)
The hinter was ofical guided by an Shikari (in German: Förster) and that the hunter use an 9,3 rifle and the Shikari (on an other side) later
find his rifle excellent.

bull hunter, from the text in the book you supplied, it appears that the 9.3 used was a 9.3x64, a rifle that is the ballistic equal of the venerable 375 h&h. (a 286gr bullet at 2550-2600 fps) it would seem an appropriate rifle for a tiger as well
 

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