Leopard Success Rates

[migrabill]

One thing not discussed and I’m not saying this is or isn’t you …. Is fitness and physical ability.

Hound hunts require the hunter to be in significantly better shape. You might need to go a couple hundred yards or you might need to sprint a mile or two up a mountain once the hounds have their target bayed and it’s your responsibility to be able to do so. Once the bay happens the only thing calling them off is you, so you need to get there quickly so the hounds don’t get torn up or killed. It’s especially true with leopards because many don’t tree, and the dogs will often be in there fighting with the Leopard in the rocks or cave where it decided to stand and fight.

In addition to this you need to be in shape enough, and competent enough with your equipment enough to make a perfectly precise shot on a spotted chainsaw, despite being out of breath from the sprint up, over and through all sorts of terrain and brush. You’re likely shooting through thick cover/vines/branches, often offhand or at a weird angle/position; at an agitated and deadly predator. You need to do so with minimal risk to you or anyone else’s lives, including the dogs.

I’ve never hunted leopard with hounds like @Betterinthebush but until recently I would’ve said i was borderline in shape for it, despite being a pretty avid western hunter. If you can’t close that distance quick, there’s a very likely chance the leopard escapes but only after tearing up a few dogs while you’re taking a breather. Heard about a hunt earlier this year where they ran the same cat multiple times, treed it multiple times, and only twice was the hunter able to get within seeing distance of the leopard and on neither occasion was the hunter able to take the shot despite being 20-30yds away.

Thank you for pointing that out. The next time I go to Africa I’ll be 63 years old, and I currently weigh 243- so probably not an option for me.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Thank you for pointing that out. The next time I go to Africa I’ll be 63 years old, and I currently weigh 243- so probably not an option for me.

Size isn’t necessarily indicative of physical shape and stamina. Some people carry weight differently than others, and muscle weighs more than fat. You’re the only one who can determine if it’s for you BUT you’re also the only one who can make the changes.

Weight alone isn’t a determining factor; 6’8 243lbs is very different than being 5’8 243lbs. A 6’ 243lb former college athlete who’s healthy and active will be different than a 6’ 243lb office worker who’s only competed in chess and debate their entire life. People with shorter legs and longer torso’s often carry weight differently than someone of the same height with extremely long legs. The same goes for age. I’ve met many people who are in their 60’s and in better shape than me. Look at @Wildwillalaska he’s not that old but I know he’s in better shape now in his 50’s than he was in his 20’s or 30’s and he did a great post on changing his life, health and fitness.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Start weighing the options, consider a helicopter assisted relocation mid hunt (at no extra cost), or using horses,

The difference between the two is that relocating by horse would be legal in Alaska. Helicopter travel or assistance (non-emergency) when hunting is not.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

The difference between the two is that relocating by horse would be legal in Alaska. Helicopter travel or assistance (non-emergency) when hunting is not.

You are 100% correct
Very few outfitters in AK use horses for sheep hunts, especially in the areas that currently have larger populations of mature rams. Additionally, from what I found an aircraft relocation (super cub) in Alaska would incur an additional expense for most outfitters. So now in comparison (if needed) we’re talking about similar pricing. 1 includes the relocation insurance (and extra days for necessary) the others don’t. The one with the relocation insurance has significantly higher success rates, much lower pressure, and averages older rams (often smaller). It’s a gamble either way but again, I decided to save for another year and go with the hunt that puts the odds a bit better in my favor.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I know almost nothing about leopard hunting from experience, though I do have a hunt for one booked next July.

I went on five do-it-myself hunts for Dall's sheep in Alaska when I lived there. Hunted the Alaska Range, the Kenai and Tok mountains, and the Chugach east of Anchorage twice. The first four hunts I made mistakes and had bad luck, but on the fifth I connected with a nice ram. I consider sheep hunting the ultimate hunting experience. The views from on top of the mountains are spectacular!

You're right about horses seldom being used in AK. They cover ground too slowly. Travel by airplane or on foot where it gets rugged is the norm. A mid-week check by your pilot is a good idea. The pilot can check on your and your partner's well-being, haul back meat from an animal you took, or move you to another location.

 

[Red Leg]

The single most important variable in a leopard hunt is the outfitter and his success rate on leopards. Almost anyone in any African country where leopards are legal can hang a bait and the vast majority are happy to do so at the client's expense. Occasionally they kill a cat which looks great on the website. The VERY FEW outfitters who have consistent success are worth identifying and paying whatever premium is necessary for their services.

 

[375Fox]

The single most important variable in a leopard hunt is the outfitter and his success rate on leopards. Almost anyone in any African country where leopards are legal can hang a bait and the vast majority are happy to do so at the client's expense. Occasionally they kill a cat which looks great on the website. The VERY FEW outfitters who have consistent success are worth identifying and paying whatever premium is necessary for their services.

I’d agree with this if applied just to Namibia with ranch cats. If I was looking at Zimbabwe, Zambia, or Mozambique I’d place area first then PH a close second. An amateur PH can get a cat on bait in the best areas. The best PH will still struggle to produce a cat in poor areas.

 

[Betterinthebush]

I’d agree with this if applied just to Namibia with ranch cats. If I was looking at Zimbabwe, Zambia, or Mozambique I’d place area first then PH a close second. An amateur PH can get a cat on bait in the best areas. The best PH will still struggle to produce a cat in poor areas.

Both you and @Red Leg make excellent points.

 

[Red Leg]

I’d agree with this if applied just to Namibia with ranch cats. If I was looking at Zimbabwe, Zambia, or Mozambique I’d place area first then PH a close second. An amateur PH can get a cat on bait in the best areas. The best PH will still struggle to produce a cat in poor areas.

You will have to identify to me a PH with high success rate on leopards in an area where there are few leopards. And should he have a high success rate with leopards why would you worry about your perception of the area.

 

[375Fox]

You will have to identify to me a PH with high success rate on leopards in an area where there are few leopards. And should he have a high success rate with leopards why would you worry about your perception of the area.

PHs aren’t confined to one area. They often buy quota in multiple areas. You’ve used the example of Nick Nolte in Namibia because he has built a reputation and specific focus around ranch cats in Namibia. I would agree he stands out compared to other Namibian outfitters over his success rates on similar cats in similar ranch land. I can’t point to a PH with a high success rate in an area with poor cat numbers, but I can easily point to hunts with very good PHs that have occurred in those areas. I’ve had PHs tell me if client knows up front they are hunting a potential difficult area they are fine conducting the hunt. The same PH in a place like Zimbabwe could be 90% in one concession and 50% in other. Concession always comes first to me. Namibia is really only country I know of where cat specialists are discussed because other dangerous game is very limited. A Zimbabwe PH will hunt multiple concessions and areas of country each year and usually leopard will be paired with other dangerous game.

 

[Red Leg]

PHs aren’t confined to one area. They often buy quota in multiple areas. You’ve used the example of Nick Nolte in Namibia because he has built a reputation and specific focus around ranch cats in Namibia. I would agree he stands out compared to other Namibian outfitters over his success rates on similar cats in similar ranch land. I can’t point to a PH with a high success rate in an area with poor cat numbers, but I can easily point to hunts with very good PHs that have occurred in those areas. I’ve had PHs tell me if client knows up front they are hunting a potential difficult area they are fine conducting the hunt. The same PH in a place like Zimbabwe could be 90% in one concession and 50% in other. Concession always comes first to me. Namibia is really only country I know of where cat specialists are discussed because other dangerous game is very limited. A Zimbabwe PH will hunt multiple concessions and areas of country each year and usually leopard will be paired with other dangerous game.

Of course. I am not sure what your point is. Some of those PH’s or operations will be far better at it than others, regardless of the area.

This is pretty simple - don’t hunt a bargain or depend on luck or hope. Hunt a leopard with a PH who has an established high record of success at a time and location he recommends regardless of region.

 

[hoytcanon]

I asked my PH what the success rate was for Leopards and was told about 50% with a 14 day hunt. Even at 75% I'm not personally willing to spend the exorbitant amount of money required on a hunt that could be fruitless.

Then you are focused on the wrong thing... you are doing your PH a favor by sticking with PG.

 

[mark-hunter]

By now I think the key question is, how to establish rate of success on leopard with some outfitter?
A client gets an offer.

It seams attractive and acceptable.

Then what?

A client can ask what is success rate, and get answer like "very high success rate", or chances are "very good".

Again, then, what?

 

[Betterinthebush]

Success rates for the PH are also dependent upon whether the hunter could stay quiet and still in the blind, keep up with the pack, not meander around aimlessly taking pictures of butterflies around the bait set while the guys are working, not fall asleep, and make a good killing shot under pressure.

I’d like to hear from PH’s how many hunts could have been successful if the hunters exercised some discipline and showed up to work seriously expecting the job to be difficult but blew it because they couldn’t pull themselves together when the moment arrived.

 

[hoytcanon]

In my opinion, the worst kind of client, is the one who hunts like he/she is grocery shopping... "I pay the money, I get my salami." The entire mindset, focus, and attitude is skewed toward disappointment and dissatisfaction.
You can't (should not) view ANY hunting endeavor as a transaction, when it comes to successfully harvesting your quarry. Peace and happiness are derived from submitting yourself to the vagaries of the natural world. Sure, do your research... certainly, prepare... but in the end, just be present for the ride and accept the outcome. As long as you put in your best effort and you see your PH putting in his best effort, accept the results without caveats and qualifiers... if hunting were guaranteed, I would quit hunting.

 

[375Fox]

This is pretty simple - don’t hunt a bargain or depend on luck or hope.

This we agree on. My point is selecting the right area creates best chance for success. Selecting the right PH is very important, but if I had to rank them outside Namibia it’s 1. Concession 2. PH. I’m confident you’d select a very high quality leopard hunt with your method, but I research areas first.

 

[Red Leg]

In my opinion, the worst kind of client, is the one who hunts like he/she is grocery shopping... "I pay the money, I get my salami." The entire mindset, focus, and attitude is skewed toward disappointment and dissatisfaction.
You can't (should not) view ANY hunting endeavor as a transaction, when it comes to successfully harvesting your quarry. Peace and happiness are derived from submitting yourself to the vagaries of the natural world. Sure, do your research... certainly, prepare... but in the end, just be present for the ride and accept the outcome. As long as you put in your best effort and you see your PH putting in his best effort, accept the results without caveats and qualifiers... if hunting were guaranteed, I would quit hunting.

So help me with being the best kind of client of which we can assume you are exemplary. Based on your understanding of hunting ethics and desire to submit yourself to the "vagaries of the natural world," would you spend 20K on an elk hunt in an area with few elk or hire a guide with a reputation of rarely taking elk? Assuming we are not hunting behind fences, would you rather hunt a sable or nyala where they are abundant, or on the fringes of their habitat where an outfitter is lucky to take one a year? And what exactly is that contract that you sign if it isn't a transactional agreement?

What @375Fox and I are saying, however mistaken he is in his priorities, is if a particular game animal is the primary purpose of a hunt, whether a royal elk, mountain goat, buffalo, or leopard, the best sort of client will do his due diligence to pick an outfitter with the area and skill set to conjure up that opportunity before then resigning oneself to the vagaries of the hunt. That isn't seeking a guarantee - it is employing common sense.

 

[Red Leg]

By now I think the key question is, how to establish rate of success on leopard with some outfitter?
A client gets an offer.

It seams attractive and acceptable.

Then what?

A client can ask what is success rate, and get answer like "very high success rate", or chances are "very good".

Again, then, what?

Ask for a reference list - not that you will get the name of many of an outfitter's unsuccessful hunters, but it is a start. This forum is a great resource. I would estimate that 9 out of 10 contributors here over the last ten years who ask about hunting with a particular PH or outfitter do so after he has already booked the hunt. Start a thread - with whom should I book a leopard hunt? In this thread alone I see three or four who would be on a potential short list, and one who likely would not.

 

[mark-hunter]

Great advice red leg!
Dont be surprised when I do just that!

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

By now I think the key question is, how to establish rate of success on leopard with some outfitter?
A client gets an offer.

It seams attractive and acceptable.

Then what?

A client can ask what is success rate, and get answer like "very high success rate", or chances are "very good".

Again, then, what?

Counter and ask the Outfitter/PH to quantify that. Examples of follow-up questions

How many hunts did you do in this area last year? How about the last few years? How many were at this time of the year? Can I speak with that hunter? What would you consider the best times of the year to hunt here and why? What challenges do we face with each of those different times? How many total tags for the area do you get? Do you have sole use or control over the area? How long have you had sole use/control?

Vetting an outfitter and extracting the information you want or need isn’t hard. If they don’t provide the information or answer you want, ask the question differently. If the outfitter answers in an evasive way multiple times then personally I’ve got the info I need. I want an honest, upfront and transparent outfitter/ph. I recognize he can’t control the shooter We’re all adults, we each are accountable for a portion of the outcome because of our responsibility in who/how we select as an outfitter.