If this is lion hunting…. You can have it

[Andrew62]

In my opinion, if this were a hunt for wildebeest, not much would be said, but because it's a lion, that changes the narrative.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I agree with everything you posted here.. Especially in regard to the hypocrisy of many hunters throwing stones from their glass shooting houses.. I also agree that a lot of needless hand-wringing goes on about the perception of hunting in the eyes of the anti-hunters. Reasoning an fact is wasted on their behalf..

I see two separate controversies from the video:

One is in regard to the ethics of CBL hunting which I think you already addressed reasonably well..

The other is in regard to the ethics of dangerous game hunting with archery equipment which I will address personally below under Wishfulthinker's post..



Why would hunters stray form crossbows or any other archery equipment of that matter? The controversy over the lion hunt with Dr. Palmer (which was a wild lion over bait by the way) had nothing to do with the fact he was hunting with a crossbow other than the ignorant, libelous, media attempted to make it seem somehow more inhumane.. If your comment is an implication that archery equipment is less ethical than rifle hunting I vehemently disagree, and I am happy to have that debate with you..



Not sure what this is about? But, if it's another implication about archery equipment, please say what you mean and we can have that discussion..



Why? I assume you don't bowhunt or know many who do and have hunted dangerous game with archery equipment to any extent? I have, and I disagree... Archery equipment, just like a rifle, is only as good as the hunter who holds it. Hunting DG with a bow or crossbow is arguably more dangerous and risky, but certainly not less ethical.. It's ultimately the hunter's responsibility to know their equipment, use it proficiently, and also know their limitations regardless of the weapon used..

We can have the discussion that a perfectly placed first rifle shot is more immediately lethal that a perfectly placed arrow shaft or bolt, but less than perfect shot placement, regardless of the weapon, can provoke a charge just as easily.

I, of course, agree that a hunter ought to be proficient no matter the method.

I didn’t say bow hunting DG is unethical, I said it is inappropriate. To a large degree it is a stunt.

It seems that it’s often a given that a PH is going to have to step in. That’s my issue. I realize it happens with rifles as well but I’d wager not nearly so often.

 

[375Fox]

In my opinion, if this were a hunt for wildebeest, not much would be said, but because it's a lion, that changes the narrative.

The narrative is changed because it’s a lion. Farmers in South Africa have done a great job maximizing value from an animal, selling a “hunt” to hunters is just one aspect of it. Cub petting and lion bone sales to China are the other aspects to it. Mixing hunting, farming, tourism to this extent is dangerous. More marketing lies have been told about this “hunt” than any other as well. It crossed border from Botswana, taking pressure off wild lions, wild lion conservation fund, too many more lies to list, even in this video the PHs try to tell client it’s around 15 years old and end of it’s time like it does have a known age. There is no accountability to any of the apparent controls in place. I can’t understand supporting activities that provide zero conservation value. This is just about money.

 

[BSO Dave]

I didn’t say bow hunting DG is unethical, I said it is inappropriate.

I'm not sure the implication is any different? Inappropriate in what specific regard?

Regardless, I respectfully disagree based on my 40+ years of bowhunting and taking multiple DG species in several continents...

It seems that it’s often a given that a PH is going to have to step in. That’s my issue. I realize it happens with rifles as well but I’d wager not nearly so often.

What evidence are you using to base this assumption? The PH will likely have to step in about 50% of the time regardless of the weapon.. Unfortunately, statistics for frequency of this occurring in rifle vs. bowhunting do not exist... Anyone's opinion on this, including mine, is anecdotally based..

I'd wager that the frequency for the necessity of a follow-up rifle shot on a wounded DG animal is much more dependent on the hunter's experience and proficiency rather than the weapon used.. If anything, it's been my experience that bowhunters, by and large, are much more competent, confident, and practiced with their equipment comparatively to rifle hunters simply because proficiency with a vertical bow is much more difficult to attain than with a rifle.

Furthermore, a crossbow (no disrespect to crossbow hunters) is not the same as a vertical bow by any measure.. Any modern crossbow set up properly is just as accurate and consistent as a rifle out to 100 yards..

 

[Bivy]

This is spot on!

'I can’t understand supporting activities that provide zero conservation value. This is just about money.'

It is sickening to see certain species and the associated hunting practices bastardized to accommodate ease of harvest, lower cost, and 100% success. Lions are one of those.

While we're on this kick, selective breeding for large horns/antlers typically does not correlate to higher
fitness/fecundity of those individuals. These practices are not advantageous to wild populations.

 

[dchum]

Furthermore, a crossbow (no disrespect to crossbow hunters) is not the same as a vertical bow by any measure.. Any modern crossbow set up properly is just as accurate and consistent as a rifle out to 100 yards..

no

 

[BSO Dave]

no

LOL... Really? Why No?

 

[MarkB]

I agree with everything you posted here.. Especially in regard to the hypocrisy of many hunters throwing stones from their glass shooting houses.. I also agree that a lot of needless hand-wringing goes on about the perception of hunting in the eyes of the anti-hunters. Reasoning an fact is wasted on their behalf..

I see two separate controversies from the video:

One is in regard to the ethics of CBL hunting which I think you already addressed reasonably well..

The other is in regard to the ethics of dangerous game hunting with archery equipment which I will address personally below under Wishfulthinker's post..



Why would hunters stray form crossbows or any other archery equipment of that matter? The controversy over the lion hunt with Dr. Palmer (which was a wild lion over bait by the way) had nothing to do with the fact he was hunting with a crossbow other than the ignorant, libelous, media attempted to make it seem somehow more inhumane.. If your comment is an implication that archery equipment is less ethical than rifle hunting I vehemently disagree, and I am happy to have that debate with you..



Not sure what this is about? But, if it's another implication about archery equipment, please say what you mean and we can have that discussion..



Why? I assume you don't bowhunt or know many who do and have hunted dangerous game with archery equipment to any extent? I have, and I disagree... Archery equipment, just like a rifle, is only as good as the hunter who holds it. Hunting DG with a bow or crossbow is arguably more dangerous and risky, but certainly not less ethical.. It's ultimately the hunter's responsibility to know their equipment, use it proficiently, and also know their limitations regardless of the weapon used..

We can have the discussion that a perfectly placed first rifle shot is more immediately lethal that a perfectly placed arrow shaft or bolt, but less than perfect shot placement, regardless of the weapon, can provoke a charge just as easily.

Thank you @BSO Dave

From your educated, well explained and detailed post it is very clear you understand.

Good job.

MB

 

[Russell0331]

Wow! I think I'd keep the crossbow at home for that hunt.

 

[93marlin]

In a prior generation, the lion would have taken care of an unskilled hunter such as this. It's no wonder anti's have gained so much favor. This feeds the rhetoric of "cruelty" to the animals.
I would be ashamed and may question if I would ever hunt again.

 

[Slider]

Wild Lions don't have that Nice of Main.

 

[sureshot375]

No worries, that video has nothing to do with hunting.

That dude is a legend in his own mind. Unfortunately Africa attracts more than its fair share of these idiots.

 

[Rubberhead]

I'm all over the board on this one. I'm not a bow hunter but if someone wants to pay good money to have someone else kill his loin then be my guest. I won't put on the internet my feelings about any put-and-take hunting because I don't want to give the antis a toe-hold. But then again, I wouldn't be giving the antis a toe-hold that distinction belongs to those that participate in put-and-take...

That being said, without CBL, lion hunting would only be available to the ultra rich that, in most cases, really haven't earned the right to hunt a "proper" lion. It would be nice if a somewhat average man could truly hunt a wild lion.

I guess, if I had to design a system it would probably be some sort of reasonably affordable lottery to hunt the wild management lions that are determined to be biologically redundant or "problem" lions but without CBL.

 

[375Fox]

It would be nice if a somewhat average man could truly hunt a wild lion.

True wild lion $13500.

Zimbabwe Free Range Lioness Hunt Special 2022

Hi all I have a great deal on a free range lioness to be hunted in November of this year 2022. The area has loads of lion so I predict this to be a successful hunt. We would be hunting the save valley conservancy. Area- Save valley conservancy Outfitter-Mbalabala Safaris Ph- Lin stanton...

www.africahunting.com

 

[npm352]

Looking at the positive side of things, the PH made a clutch shot. CBLs are still dangerous if they get a hold of you.

 

[uplander01]

not cool at all

 

[poco]

Wild Lions don't have that Nice of Main.

That was my thought also “ hella main on that lion “
I got two buddies who bow hunt RSA every couple years and I don’t want the bow hunt Africa experience/ sitting in a blind over water or salt / feed to kill a animal

 

[Rubberhead]

True wild lion $13500.

Zimbabwe Free Range Lioness Hunt Special 2022

Hi all I have a great deal on a free range lioness to be hunted in November of this year 2022. The area has loads of lion so I predict this to be a successful hunt. We would be hunting the save valley conservancy. Area- Save valley conservancy Outfitter-Mbalabala Safaris Ph- Lin stanton...

www.africahunting.com

I stand corrected - I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

 

[krish]

I don’t see a problem, it’s a bow hunt with a backup rifle, unless it’s a canned version of a hunt ? And the PH was saving everyone a$$ , no telling who that lion would have gotten under those circumstances

It is fishing in a fish tank by some body else and one take the credit for the gold fish. I dont call that hunting.
Krish

 

[MarkB]

There must be a ton of people on this site who never hunt whitetails from a stand with the trail camera sending up to date pics, and the bait pile close. No pig hunting with the same, don't hunt grizzly or predators with archery equipment in any place that requires a guide, no Mexico muley hunting from a high rack, have no color phase anything except bears, no night hunting, now no water hole sitting and on and on.

Hell who needs the antis, there are so many "hunters" who chastise, complain call out and belittle each other for doing LEGAL hunts and using legal methods, they just don't conform to their beliefs, thoughts and misguided opinions. So its wrong????

The CB Lion hunts are not lied about, not secret, not made out to be what they are not, at least now. Yes I did feel like the whole hunt was scripted but sort of feel the same in a tree stand waiting for the big 9, drop boy or what ever its name is and the camera tells me he shows at ..... time daily.

Lots of glass room living people.

The original video is a You tuber, that should explain most of what he states and does. Most is enhanced, fake and made into something they are not. Its about likes and dollars, seams it has somewhat worked, sure got us stirred up.

MB