Guide rifle recommendations

I would probably go 9.3x62. That said if you shoot the other rifles exactly as well and as often as you do the 9.3, the 375 would not be crazy.

You asked about solids vs expanding. There are some bullets that straddle the line a bit. Hard to imagine that say a Nosler Partition in that 9.3 would have lost the front, and then the rear come home like a 30-06 solid, on the head of that bear, and it would have done anything other than go down.

There is a Barnes bullet that I have not tried that also has a reputation for being a little harder to open, and gets good penetration with expansion, it is the TSX. They seem to be tunned for the caliber as they will open well in the 30-30 version, yet have a reputation for deep penetration in the larger examples.
 
Nice offer to help, but while Canadians can legally import ammunition from the USA, the USA doesn't allow ammunition to be exported without an exporters permit. No easy way for your friend to take ammo across the border, according to USA rules.
Which is because none of our governments going quite a bit back, have signed off the deal they were offered to allow US vendors to ship to Canada. Post 9/11 the US got touchy about stuff like 50 cal sniper gear, but basically everything does come up here, it is just ludicrously expensive.

This supports vendors up here, but the system is so limited it really hurts hunters who do not have access to a wide range of materials.

The UK has better access than we do.
 
If it was me doing your job I'd choose the 9.3 or the .375 Ruger. My reason is that either used with good bullets will give deep enough penetration on any bear that walks. And good bullet expansion at the same time. The .416 and the .458 are more powerful, but what would that power actually do for you? I don't believe any solid bullet is a good choice for bear. Expanding bullets for those cartridges are often made so tough that they might not expand very much on a relatively "soft" bear. Recoil can become a challenge to manage during quick second or third shots. Rifle weight can also be a drag with bigger than necessary rifles.
The ammunition for 9.3x62 and .375 Ruger are much more available in northern Canada. I see them stocked in local stores, but have seldom seen .416 Remington and might never have actually seen .458 for sale. You had one bad experience with a 9.3 and a relatively lightweight, lightly constructed 250 grain Nosler accubond bullet. That bullet, and the Hornady Interlock 285 grain, do not have a great reputation according to the experienced folks on Canadian Gun Nuts forum. I predict that with a proper 285 grain bullet, made by Norma (Oryx), Nosler (Partition), Swift (A frame), or Lapua (Mega) that bear would have been stopped efficiently.
Your Ruger .375 is just a wee bit more of a good thing, without being too much. The only bullet Hornady loads in it worth considering for your work is the DGX bonded 300 gr. Between the 9.3 & .375, I'd pick the rifle that operated most reliably, that I could get good ammunition for, most liked to carry and that I shot best under pressure, quickly.
Thank you sir! Awesome response. I have lots of ammo for both. In 9.3x62 Norma 286 and 325 grain Oryx as well as their 286 grain Alaskan bullet. Which would you recommend? I had a client once shoot a big bear with the 286 grain cheap Prvi soft ammo and it grenaded on hard bone. Will avoid that one. Have had two bad experiences on game with them whe they encountered heavy bone. The only thing I have in my mind about the 458 or 416 is when in very tight cover. Things like to die in miserable places. Have been in situations tracking wounded grizzly where there was two in the brush with me and the pucker factor was quite high to say the least.
 
Nice offer to help, but while Canadians can legally import ammunition from the USA, the USA doesn't allow ammunition to be exported without an exporters permit. No easy way for your friend to take ammo across the border, according to USA rules.
Ugh. I knew this would happen. I knew I'd mention something that has a legal component and then someone would say something that isn't technically true or would just misunderstand what I said and then I'd want to get in a legal fight. So, I'll leave it at, "you're right."
 
Thank you for the great reply. Will not consider the solids any more. Only reason was because other than the 450 woodleighs they are lightest grain I could buy in factory ammo. I have about 10 boxes of the 270 SP-RP and I think 4 or 5 of the DGX bonded. Do you think the 270's would be a better mix of trajectory and expansion compared to the DGX or would you just go with the DGX? When using the 9.3 out in the field it regulated great with the 250 accubond 2 inches high at 100 and the 325 oryx dead on the bullseye at 100 yards, 3 bullets in the same hole with a leupold VX-R 1-4. Was fantastic, but after watching a bear run away with a hole in his head after getting shot my natural response was to go with more gun. Could just be an anomaly and I'm overthinking it now, but it is nice to talk to you guys and share experiences either way.
If you are truly needing up close and personal stopping power. I'd use the 300 grain Bonded. For greater range the 270 is better, in my opinion. It will be a bit faster and flatter and at longer ranges may actually retain more energy, I haven't confirmed that;)

The closer the target is to the muzzle, the faster the bullet will be traveling thus the explosive it will behave on impact. Thus the usefulness of a Bonded bullet. At greater ranges and resulting slower impact speed, the bullet will not expand as much nor blow apart as easily or extensively. So a bonded bullet is less necessary and possibly less desirable.

If you are stretching your ranges past 200 and out around 300 yards, I would think the 270 grain loads would have a real advantage. If you are never or very rarely shooting past 200 yards, I'd stick with the 300 grain loads as much as you can. But I would not be concerned using the 270 grain on softer critters. They are not for Cape buffalo;)
 
@Nwrangler: if you can find the ammo in the U.S., just have it shipped. If that's not possible, I have a colleague who was born and raised in Sask, who has dual citizenship (who, oddly enough, has been hunting in Africa serveral times). He could probably take it across the border (he drives up every couple of months) and ship it from inside Canada. Just a thought. I do ammo and component runs (AKA Freedom Runs) to my beleaguered brothers and sisters in the People's Socialist Republik of Washington. Not trying to be weird or whatever.
Appreciate the offer! Will keep it in mind. Haven't thought about driving down to the states, tried to get an outfitter friend to pick some up for me in texas at the DSC but apparently there's paper work involved and a whole hassle involved with bringing it up, but thats just what I was told. Thanks for the reply!
 
If you are truly needing up close and personal stopping power. I'd use the 300 grain Bonded. For greater range the 270 is better, in my opinion. It will be a bit faster and flatter and at longer ranges may actually retain more energy, I haven't confirmed that;)

The closer the target is to the muzzle, the faster the bullet will be traveling thus the explosive it will behave on impact. Thus the usefulness of a Bonded bullet. At greater ranges and resulting slower impact speed, the bullet will not expand as much nor blow apart as easily or extensively. So a bonded bullet is less necessary and possibly less desirable.

If you are stretching your ranges past 200 and out around 300 yards, I would think the 270 grain loads would have a real advantage. If you are never or very rarely shooting past 200 yards, I'd stick with the 300 grain loads as much as you can. But I would not be concerned using the 270 grain on softer critters. They are not for Cape buffalo;)
Thank goodness there's no Cape Buffalo! Mainly moose and caribou and bear and some stones sheep.Thanks for all the help ActionBob.
 
Which is because none of our governments going quite a bit back, have signed off the deal they were offered to allow US vendors to ship to Canada. Post 9/11 the US got touchy about stuff like 50 cal sniper gear, but basically everything does come up here, it is just ludicrously expensive.

This supports vendors up here, but the system is so limited it really hurts hunters who do not have access to a wide range of materials.

The UK has better access than we do.
Hard to have nice things these days! Lol
 
Thank you guys for your responses, much appreciate the various knowledge and experience you all have.
 
For the 9.3 get some 286 or 300 gr Aframes and don't look back. The privi's are best used on deer size kritters. Have shot a number of the zastava's, the action is solid, most of the stocks look like they were chewed by a bunch of beavers from a old pallet. For where you are hunting put one in a hogue overmolded and pretty much any factory ammo will deal with cranky bears. It won't be a 300+ rifle but a grizzly up close and personal it would sort him out properly.
 
For the 9.3 get some 286 or 300 gr Aframes and don't look back. The privi's are best used on deer size kritters. Have shot a number of the zastava's, the action is solid, most of the stocks look like they were chewed by a bunch of beavers from a old pallet. For where you are hunting put one in a hogue overmolded and pretty much any factory ammo will deal with cranky bears. It won't be a 300+ rifle but a grizzly up close and personal it would sort him out properly.
Thank you! Nice to see the 9.3 getting so much love compared to the more modern cartridges.
 
I agree with @Longwalker on the 9.3 and 375.

The heavier rifles needed for the 416RM & 458WM along with the recoil recovery time and higher priced ammo make them impractical when you have the other calibers available.

Swift A-Frame, Barnes TSX, Norma Oryx and Federal TBBC are excellent choices to start with. For the 375H&H there is a Barnex 250 grain TTSX that should be able to extend your range to 300+ pretty easily, but you will need to reload to use them.
 
A stainless steel Marlin Guide Rifle (now called a Trapper I believe) in 45-70 is the gun you are looking for to make the bear and moose "sit-down". Lever action so faster than a bolt gun which as a guide can be important, and mine will put the rounds next to each other at 100 yards with open sights. Excellent brush gun that can stand the rain and rigors of what you do. No it's not a backup gun for 300 yard shots, but no one should be taking 300 yard shots at bear, and why even at moose. Both animals are very easy to get inside a hundred yards.
 
Part of the problem right now in Canada, and I'm sure it is in your part of the world, is the availability of components, is a very big issue with getting into reloading these days. I also just really like guns and have the fantastic problem of not knowing which one to use! The 9.3's are old Husqvarnas, the 375 Ruger a Guide Gun, the 416 a Model 70 safari express, the 458 WM a Zastava that looks like it was made im high-school shop class. But the action feels solid and has a big steel claw. I have a custom HS precision PHL in 300 WSM as well. I wouldn't say I buy cheap rifles but I'm also not putting a Blaser in the scabbard on my horse and beating it off of 600-800 miles worth of trees and willows and constant rain for months at a time in the Yukon. If you could invest in the proper reloading supplies for the cartridges listed above, which one would you focus on?
Obviously it would have to be the one you ultimately choose as the best. But the question you asked was relative to reloading in Canada.

The 416 Would be the one most difficult to get generally. Though if your local shop has it, then off you go. Dies are more expensive, and bullets, and brass. Sometimes just unavailable. You can certainly find it, but while reloading is generally less expensive. It could be more expensive if your usual consumption was a box a year, and you might use up that much ammo just getting your preferred loads. I haven't personally seen 416 cases in bags, anywhere.

(THOUGH, for the use you have in mind, I would concentrate on getting the low standard, factory specs. I get the game, but in the real world if the 416 is not enough (?), you don't want to try to turn you 416 Remington into a Weatherby, you buy a Weatherby, or a Rigby. I am not recommending the upgrade, but a philosophy. So if you follow that rule of every cartridge that is fully loaded (not geriatric 45-70 loaded for 19th century guns), is kinda perfect as it is, and don't try to make it "better than it should be", then your time on the bench should be far less.)

The 458 WM is pretty easy to get, no 308, but easy enough. But it would be more expensive just because it has more of everything. And the dies can be twice as expensive, as they "should" be.

The larger the case the more you may run into a problem with a craptastic press that might handle 30-06, but might be tested with 458. I bought a Rochucker back when they were cheap, and for what it is, it is the best. But there are some smaller presses that are very economical , but I would need to ask some question about them for the larger stuff. So that might be a problem with a 458, don't know.

.375 is widely available, but in the current Canada, you may certainly run into a lot of "Sold out" signs for almost anything... But I would be reasonably confident in finding it. It is also the largest case that PRVI sells. PRVI is a mid price and quality case that is standard in Europe.

At this point the 9.3x62 is the clear winner, it is natively cheaper, being the smallest cartridge, and it is strangely highly available in Canada. You can even get cast bullets for it. PRVI stock both bullets and brass for it. The bullets get mixed report, I think they might be a bit like a Sierra cup bullet. Where I am they could kill either my Black Bear, or Moose if the nose fell off on the way to the target. For Grizz I would also load Nosler, and some Mono, depending on what you expect. Or Barnes TSX, based on what the old hands say is best. But the PRVI is great for practice, etc... For PB, I have no real knowledge, but solids will certainly do it, if one can place the bullets.

While it represents a case separation hazard in theory (see below), you can reload either 30-06, or 35 Whelen, for 9.3. That appeals to me given our current flirtation with the illogical, innumerate, and inexperienced in Ottawa. (The case separation deal is because the head is smaller on 30-06 ammo, and that is a part one does not want to mess with, however, someone did the obvious and measure the two heads, and found they were identical, so perhaps whatever manufacturer was the source of those cases had already taken the shortcut.) In a world where the UK bans wood stoves, one never knows what essentials of life will be banned next.

Re, your Zastava:

A lot of pros that shoot bolts have customized their wood stocks. Wood is great for that because it is strong enough to allow manipulation, and addition; can be sealed with epoxy and be basically as weatherproof as plastic. And it is stiffer than most synthetic stocks, which is great for shooting. So the pro approach is to Bondo it into a correct shape, make any changes that you need for a proper cheek weld, and length of pull. Then seal it up, glass bed it. put on pro positioned sling hardware, or not. Then you either leave it looking very messy, because that is a sort of humble brag, or you give it a paint job.

Here is an interesting piece on the 9.3. As always one has to filter through guide vs client issues.

 
A stainless steel Marlin Guide Rifle (now called a Trapper I believe) in 45-70 is the gun you are looking for to make the bear and moose "sit-down". Lever action so faster than a bolt gun which as a guide can be important, and mine will put the rounds next to each other at 100 yards with open sights. Excellent brush gun that can stand the rain and rigors of what you do. No it's not a backup gun for 300 yard shots, but no one should be taking 300 yard shots at bear, and why even at moose. Both animals are very easy to get inside a hundred yards.
I always worry about the power of the 45-70, as it appears to have worried the Alaskans who invented the improved 45 Alaskan, and the real deal the 50 Alaskan.

I also wonder why the Marlin is so popular given that it is no longer the inexpensive gun it once was. At 1886 prices with none of the horsepower, it seems like a newly poor choice. The 1886 also has controlled round feed. I used to think it could be topped off, but I am not sure it can. However one can top off the magazine, with one is the spout, as with most levers. One problem for some is the mounting of optics, but they are available with scout rails, and also red dot mounting plates from Turnbull. Perdosoli has some nice stainless models, or other tacticool choices. Winchester offers the 45-90 out of the box, and has offered the 50-110. The former can actually match, or very nearly match, 458 Win loadings. It can also handle 45-70 rounds. I assume that an 1886 could handle a rechambering to 45-110, which is a seriously large capacity case, even with the deep seated bullets that are common. But my assumption are worthless.

There is a surplus of 1895 Wins in 405 unobtainium, in Canada at the moment. KAC makes a device to stretch 303 cases to suit the 405. My grandfather was a machine gunner in the war of 1914- 1918, would it be fun to shoot his cases in a gun created the year my grandmother was born? My brain doesn't work that way. I would prefer it rebarreled in 9.3x62, which is an easy fix in the US where barrels are plentiful, starting with the 30-06 factory gun. Several online examples exist and it seems like an ideal rifle. I have not heard of a 35 Whelen in that gun, but it must exist. Checked the net and apparently there is an Alaskan guide who tried that and also some other Whelen cartridges. Apparently there were some Scoville and Hawk conversions covered in Rifle.
 
A major reason the Marlin is so popular is because it can safely handle Garrett's ammo, most others including Winchester cannot.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

And I had mine customized by Jim Brockman with what today is known as the Super Guide package which among a host of others things includes an extended magazine. It's a super sweet reliable gun that will drop anything walking. My Alaska brush gun.
 

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I agree with Action Bob. I would carry the 375 Ruger loaded with 270 gr. Swift A Frames. It will do a tidy job on everything you mentioned - except possibly 500 yard shots... but how many of those do you need to do?
 
Gentlemen! Thank you for your replies, all very awesome. In regards to 500 yards shots, very rarely will this ever happen and I hope it doesn't. However have been apart of situations where clients wound an animal at closer distances, somehow manage to miss all other shots and run out of ammo, and there is that beautiful animal, wounded and about to get away. Or say a guys rifle jams after he fires the first shot. These situations have happened before and I just like to be prepared and have as little chance at a wounded animal getting away to suffer and be a lost trophy. So far now in 6 years of guiding have only had to fire a shot at bears, whether wounded or to scare them away. Very possibly could never have to fire one again. But, at a young age have met Mr. Murphy the lawmaker quite a few times and I like to be as prepared as possible. In regards to the thought on the 45-70, have been there and done that with it, the hollow point 300 TSX bullets whack the hell out of a bear and bleed good and penetrate good. Everything else factory ammo wise I have been very unimpressed and feel that the people that dote over them as the be-all end-all hammer of thor have a fantasy in their head. They are a great firearm and I love to hunt deer with mine. I was unfortunate enough to own one of the Remlins and after the first season of rattling down logging roads and getting beat up in a scabbard, halfway through the fall season the action was actually somehow bent (words from a competent gunsmith). I had a tracking situation where there was a wounded grizz in the willows and another bigger boar that came out and started feeding on the carcass after we shot the other one. Two bears in the willows with you, One wounded, one pushed off a carcass, with a bent action 45-70 that wouldn't function reliably 100% of the time, is some serious pucker factor. Tighter than two coats of paint kind of pucker. Was I supposed to tell my client we weren't going to try to find the bear? After this it was Mauser actions only for me. Also, have seen at least 2 of the marlin stocks break when out in the Backcountry. Know of another guy who bought a brand new marlin on a special trip to town, went back in the bush and got real charged by a sow, rifle jammed after the first shot. Some people use a marlin 45-70 their whole guiding and hunting careers and have zero problems and love them. Also, most factory ammo is made for deer, or is a 430 grain hardcast. Have shot bears and deer with them and they are not a hammer of thor like people think they are. Too slow and no expansion. Drills a caliber sized hole in and out. A 45-70 is like using a horse and buggy to tow a trailer when you could buy a diesel truck for the same amount of money. Also, when a bear is wounded past 200 yards, which has happened, a 45-70 with iron sights, is not ideal. I found this out! I know this from first hand experience because I thought I was cool when I first had one and quickly found out I wasn't cool. As the guy I worked for at the time told me, a man with over 100 animals in his trophy room at the time, when he saw my 1895 guide rifle - a 45-70 is only good for shooting bears through doors. I now agree! If a 416 rem with a 400 solid at 2400 isn't ideal for bears, why would a 430 grain going 1800 at best all the sudden be a magical hammer? It isn't! My current outfitter had a client shoot a very large colour phase in the spring 7 times with the HSM 430 bear load (what most guides up here use). Bear would drop and get up. Not all were perfect shots but there was hardly any damage. Same with whitetail and those same bullets. Some people love them and use them to stop situations very effectively. I've had bad experiences and wasn't impressed by the performance. Sorry to ramble.
I much appreciate all of you sharing your thoughts and experiences! Great reading material! Thank you guys and hope to hear back from you.
 
Shouldn't even have said 500- let's go 300 for the max distance and anything else is a hail Mary. Also just recently was able to aquire some factory ammo for the 416, 400 TSX and A-frames. The trajectory when zeroed at 200 yards to 300 yards seems similar between the 416 and the 375. The 375 is one of the ruger guide guns with the 20" stainless barrel. I would much rather beat this up than the Beautiful old classy 9.3 with walnut and ebony forend. It's most certainly a gentleman's caliber and if I was hunting for myself it would get the nod over all else! Love the 9.3
 
A major reason the Marlin is so popular is because it can safely handle Garrett's ammo, most others including Winchester cannot.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

And I had mine customized by Jim Brockman with what today is known as the Super Guide package which among a host of others things includes an extended magazine. It's a super sweet reliable gun that will drop anything walking. My Alaska brush gun.
I love the Brockman package.

Marlin pursued the market, and did the Guide Gun thing, which is wildly popular. Winchester keeps itself solidly in the 19th century. And even where that is concerned, every year's offerings are different. Perdesoli and Chiappa, have the 1886 guide market.

1886s are stronger than the Marlins are. Garret mentions 43K cup vs 50K for the 1886. Recently a few of the custom houses seem to have felt it necessary to drop the 50 Alaskan loadings, among other, in the Marlin.

The only rifle that does do the African minimum or advertises it is the 1886 in the 470 Turnbull. He has a 470 for the Marlin, but it does not meet the minimum.

-----------------------------------

Garret says you can shoot the hammerheads in the 1886, the Perdesoli handles them, and the ones that don't, it is just a small adjustment to the throat they require. It is probably just a meplat issue. The frontal area has got so large on currently popular bullets, they spread into the rifling on some throats.

---------------------------------------

Hammerheads are expensive, but you can load hotter ammo in the 45-90 that is standard in the Winchester 1886, and possibly could be chambered in other 1886 guns.
 
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Are you still looking for a 375 H&H?
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