Free range or not?

[UKHunter]

I think that comment is a little unfair about Europe. I can see where you are coming from but i believe it is a little exaggerated. Yes, we don't have the amount of wilderness as Africa but we are not as large an area.

To say 'they move in the direction they can' creates a false image in my opinion. Our species do not migrate and generally stay put in a given area. Yes, as urban areas grow there is less habitat available but we are certainly not at a point where our deer are boxed in. I regularly see deer in semi-urban locations, especially Muntjac and Roe.They move in all directions. They are very good at adapting to their environment.

 

[petrusg]

Yes, as urban areas grow there is less habitat available but we are certainly not at a point where our deer are boxed in. I regularly see deer in semi-urban locations, especially Muntjac and Roe.They move in all directions. They are very good at adapting to their environment.

A great reason for the privatisation of land where wildlife can exist and flourish...

 

[UKHunter]

A great reason for the privatisation of land where wildlife can exist and flourish...

All the land is owned by someone, most of it private. Sadly money talks and a farmer can earn millions by selling off his fields near a town for building development.

SA is a great example of conservation and what can be done to protect flora and fauna. We would have a lot less of it in this country if it wasn't for shooting and the investment made into habitat conservation. You try telling that to an anti....


I think SA sets a lot of good examples about what can be done when you place a value on game and educate people of its importance and need for conservation. Hunting is the only thing that can provide enough income to support it. Im a huge fan of SA and want to hunt there again.

My point is just is it free-range in the eyes of everyone else?

 

[TokkieM]

Drive along any large freeway in Sweden and you will see high fence to keep game off the roads,they cannot move as they please. Put that with a village every 10kms and you pretty much box them in. There is a reason more game crossings are being built to get game over free ways and roads. Using cultivated lands as an example,game tend to migrate towards them once the crop is high enough to hide in. Fellow deer in our area will move 30km through cultivated land and move back to the Forrest when the lands are harvested. I have Roedeer in my backyard every winter,they are not free range,neither are the Fellow deer in the forrest surrounded by houses on all sides.
A fence is a barrier,but so are all the other man made obstacles.

SA started out as a great example,but when you cut 800HA into 10 camps you can't call it free range. Just like hunting 10 Buff on 1000HA is like shooting fish in a barrel. SA has a abundance of game,but probably more km's of game fence than a combined total of the rest of the world put together.There is very,very little Free Range hunting in SA.

 

[JustinC]

I think peoples opinions might differ on this but when selling hunts the exact details should be clearly stated and not misrepresented.

This is off topic but I'll ask anyways.... Although generally very good, English is not always the first language of African Outfitters, PH's and so on. Would this make a difference with regards to interpretations or explanations in the selling, marketing and communication processes?

 

[petrusg]

This is off topic but I'll ask anyways.... Although generally very good, English is not always the first language of African Outfitters, PH's and so on. Would this make a difference with regards to interpretations or explanations in the selling, marketing and communication processes?

In my opinion - Yes!

 

[UKHunter]

Drive along any large freeway in Sweden and you will see high fence to keep game off the roads,they cannot move as they please. Put that with a village every 10kms and you pretty much box them in. There is a reason more game crossings are being built to get game over free ways and roads. Using cultivated lands as an example,game tend to migrate towards them once the crop is high enough to hide in. Fellow deer in our area will move 30km through cultivated land and move back to the Forrest when the lands are harvested. I have Roedeer in my backyard every winter,they are not free range,neither are the Fellow deer in the forrest surrounded by houses on all sides.
A fence is a barrier,but so are all the other man made obstacles.

SA started out as a great example,but when you cut 800HA into 10 camps you can't call it free range. Just like hunting 10 Buff on 1000HA is like shooting fish in a barrel. SA has a abundance of game,but probably more km's of game fence than a combined total of the rest of the world put together.There is very,very little Free Range hunting in SA.

I wasn't aware this was the case. I put Europe under a blanket opinion, I wasn't aware you fence your road systems. Thank you for educating me on this.

 

[petrusg]

@UKHunter you started a great topic here... Interesting to see the different point of views

 

[TokkieM]

How exact must one make the details? Or how honest should one be? Let me play devils advocate (based on real life situation) Outfitter one has a fenced area of 5000HA,so does Outfitter 2. Make them neighbours in the same area. Both advertise the areas as such. But Outfitter 1 has only two places were animals have access to water,the rest of the area has no other water points,natural or man made. Outfitter 2 has 10 water points and 1 km of river front on the same size property. Now Outfitter 1 shoots 80% of his game within a 2km radius of the water,how honest is he?

 

[UKHunter]

I think peoples opinions might differ on this but when selling hunts the exact details should be clearly stated and not misrepresented.

This is off topic but I'll ask anyways.... Although generally very good, English is not always the first language of African Outfitters, PH's and so on. Would this make a difference with regards to interpretations or explanations in the selling, marketing and communication processes?

Perhaps, Yes. I think what might make it misrepresented is that the locals who hunt in SA may have different standards or opinions on different matters of the hunt to someone who is coming from overseas.

I personally don't like paying a higher day rate to sleep in luxury accommodation and dine on gourmet food every night. I prefer to sling my hammock up between two trees, cook over an open fire and BBQ any game shot. I expect to pay a lower daily rate for this, but then I'm going to spend that money on more animals. So the outfitter is not losing out either. This is probably a very different preference to the majority who hunt in Africa.

 

[UKHunter]

How exact must one make the details? Or how honest should one be? Let me play devils advocate (based on real life situation) Outfitter one has a fenced area of 5000HA,so does Outfitter 2. Make them neighbours in the same area. Both advertise the areas as such. But Outfitter 1 has only two places were animals have access to water,the rest of the area has no other water points,natural or man made. Outfitter 2 has 10 water points and 1 km of river front on the same size property. Now Outfitter 1 shoots 80% of his game within a 2km radius of the water,how honest is he?

A great question.

I think that is something that comes down to the ethics of the outfitter and perhaps the experience of the hunter to ask those questions. Outfitter 1 hasn't lied unless the client has asked about this, but if the client had said he wanted to hunt fair-chase, walk and stalk then perhaps he has been dishonest knowing that his game is heavily concentrated in one area without choice, as animals have to drink?

 

[Red Leg]

To add another dimension to this conversation, there are huge tracks of Southern Africa in Namibia which are low-fenced cattle country. There are South African style game ranches with high fences to be sure, but enormous swaths are cattle country. Some of the "ranchers" join together to form conservancies - but they and millions of other acres are simply cattle fenced. Much like most of the United States, these fences form no barrier to wild game. To my mind, that environment constitutes "free range" hunting even though it isn't the wilderness hunting one finds in parts of Tanzania and Mozambique. I certainly feel that way about the whitetail that move up and down the San Gabriel River behind the house. Down the road a piece is a 5k acre game fenced property for hunting the same species of deer. No one here, would consider those animals "free-range". I think the same thing is true in the RSA. That is not to say game farms are not ethical. If an animal breeds, lives, and dies in an environment large enough to not be constrained then that is to my mind an ethical hunting environment - high fences or not. But I would not consider that a free range hunt regardless what the outfitter advertises. Put and take hunting, on the other hand, where the animal is purchased, released , and shot - at least to me - crosses that ethical line and simply becomes killing.

 

[JustinC]

How exact must one make the details?

Referring to fences - If a property is fenced then it should be stated as such.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Here most of the river farms that decide to marking them borders in Zambia against poachers have 3 sides fence and one part open or unfenced against the river -Luangwa-Zambezi-Kafue-Chambeshi this farms can be from 2000 up to 20000 hectare and the larger ones are open against the river for 20-30 km that sometime dry out. I would classified those farms as free range, I see all kind of game moving in and out.

 

[TokkieM]

Low fence Springbok etc is still fenced and saying you hunt them in low fenced areas will still be stretching the truth. If there is a fence don't call it free range,it's not.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Thats right hunting hard, remember that you can keep buffalo in low fence 120-140 cm with out problem but you need one top line electrified, and people think its a simple cattle fence with free range buffalo...

 

[Red Leg]

Low fence Springbok etc is still fenced and saying you hunt them in low fenced areas will still be stretching the truth. If there is a fence don't call it free range,it's not.

Good point on springbok - but a cattle fence is no hindrance to gemsbok, kudu, etc anymore than a three or four strand barbwire fence is to whitetail in this country. I think most American hunters would agree that a fence which stops cattle but which does not hinder a whitetail (or mullie or pronghorn) is a "free range" environment.

And to Gordon - Kruger's point, I think he is exactly correct. Hard to imagine any fenced environment where a buffalo would be considered "free range". Again, if it is large enough, such a buff hunt can be perfectly ethical - but it isn't the Caprivi or Zambezi Delta.

 

[TokkieM]

@Red Leg I agree with you and with @gordon-kruger. Yet you will find Outfitters advertising a Conservancy hunt on 30 000HA with only high fence being the boundaries,but there is still low fence inside and you can bet there is Springbuck,Blesbuck in their package. What use to be the largest Lechwe herd in SA (700) was behind a low fence.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Red Leg if there should be fencing down in Zambezi delta it would not be nice, flat like a pancake and if you climb up on the roof of the bakkie you would see the fence poles for miles if the grass is not to high... a hilly Luangwa valley and 15.000 ha 3 side fence open to the river will be a challenge for sure..

 

[joester]

I have hunted on a large - 18,000 acres - fenced property in Namibia. My guide (not a PH) showed me several spots where cheethas had learned to run prey (springbok, young wildebeest) into the fence. I don't regard that as free range.