fillers for nitro express

[metricman]

any sentiments/ experience using dacron vs foam fillers for nitro express cartridges?
specifically, 450 3 1/4

thankx

 

[Rare Breed]

I now shoot a 450 3 1/4 after shooting 7 other DRs. One of our members has a great article from testing he did with different type fillers. The key message was all will work but at a price of PSI. I have been lucky to purchase a lifetime of Kynoch #2 fillers which fit perfectly my DRs. They are no longer made. My thoughts are go into search and enter fillers and his testing should come up which was excellent. Of course, the master is Graham's Shooting The English DR which I have, and you should buy for about $100 with the conversion rate from Rigby.com. He outlines everything you want to know about fillers.

 

[deewayne2003]

I now shoot a 450 3 1/4 after shooting 7 other DRs. One of our members has a great article from testing he did with different type fillers. The key message was all will work but at a price of PSI. I have been lucky to purchase a lifetime of Kynoch #2 fillers which fit perfectly my DRs. They are no longer made. My thoughts are go into search and enter fillers and his testing should come up which was excellent. Of course, the master is Graham's Shooting The English DR which I have, and you should buy for about $100 with the conversion rate from Rigby.com. He outlines everything you want to know about fillers.

Like @Rare Breed, I purchased a lifetime supply of the Kynoch wads; I switched to them after starting with Dacron.

I read the study he mentioned above; they took the same .470ne and loaded identical rounds with the only variable being the filler and had pressure testing equipment.

Results showed Dacron had the highest pressure, I read another article from one of the Rifle magazine writers where he had some loads with Dacron contacting the extruded powder charge; he pulled the bullets and had pictures of the powder grains melted into and discolored the Dacron.

I’ll also add that weighing Dacron while loading is both time consuming and a pain in the ass, so I value my time enough for that alone and if the pressure is lower then it’s a win win.

Others have reported their regulation load changed with switching to wads, but mine did not.

Also, I fully expect someone to come along and burn me for mentioning pressure and tell us all how long and or how many rounds they’ve loaded with Dacron.

 

[318AE]

If you can find a foam backing rod at a Home Depot or similar, that is about the right diameter, it’s much simpler than dacron. Just straighten it out and cut it into consistent lengths, so it is slightly compressed. I measure how deep the powder is from the cartridge mouth and subtract the length of the bullet below the cannelure, or its seated depth. Dacron works too, but is fussy by comparison.

 

[mitch4570]

I Wonder if anyone is going to make 1/2 " open cell foam for reloading. Or maybe someone knows where I can get some

 

[Andrew NOLA]

Would this work?

I should have a 470 nitro express in a few weeks. JJ has it right now.

I gotta be honest, I did not anticipate having to use a filler, but seems like it’s probably a good idea

https://www.amazon.com/M-D-Building-Products-71480-20-Feet/dp/B000BQWOC0

 

[skydiver386]

Never loaded Nitro Express calibers, but I have used shotshell buffer in quite a few calibers including big bores.
I load by volume using a Lee dipper kit and use just enough to fill the case, but not compress the powder charge.

Ballistic Products Shot Buffer Original 500cc (Approximately 1/2 lb)

Ballistic Products original design buffer offers maximum magnum load pattern density with an absolute minimum affect on chamber pressures. Applications...

www.midwayusa.com

Just so everyone knows, in using any filler, you are adding ejected mass weight, and reducing case volume, so it's a good idea to go to starting loads and progress to heavier charges while looking for signs of excessive pressure.

 

[mitch4570]

So it doesn't mix with the powder?

 

[metricman]

my thanks to all for your insights

 

[skydiver386]

So it doesn't mix with the powder?

Not if you fill the case to the bottom of the bullet. If you do it correctly, you fill all the empty space on top of the powder column, but don't compress the powder charge.

 

[Adam Stevens]

Not right or best but the fellow I bought my .450no2 from used polyester fibre like the the balls of cotton.

Can't knock it, he's shot hundreds if not thousands of rounds and taken more animals in Africa then I will too. And regulated great.

 

[deewayne2003]

Would this work?

I should have a 470 nitro express in a few weeks. JJ has it right now.

I gotta be honest, I did not anticipate having to use a filler, but seems like it’s probably a good idea

https://www.amazon.com/M-D-Building-Products-71480-20-Feet/dp/B000BQWOC0

There is an open cell version of that, I think it’s only in 100’ length though I’m sure you could cut it into 10’ pieces and sell it here.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

I wish I had a “lifetime” supply of Kynoch wads, but the 400+ I purchased dwindled rapidly…but I’m also well into my 3rd keg of RL15 since September and burn a couple other powders that I use foam wads in. I shoot mostly 450 3 1/4”, 450/400, and 500NE, but also worked up loads and regulation on a few other Heym doubles in 450/400, 470, and 500 that I enjoyed and sent along to happy owners within the last 8-10 months.

The foam wads are the easiest/quickest to make and are supposed to prove the most consistent on pressure as noted above. One thing on backer rod, I don’t like using the closed cell foam backer rod you’ll find at Home Depot. It will burn and leaves black residue on your case mouths that you will not see when using the open cell Kynoch wads. For that reason, I’ve ordered open cell foam backer rod, which wasn’t as easy to find as I had hoped. I ordered some 5/8” that actually works wonderfully in 450/400 up through 505 Gibbs. The initial 1/2” I ordered is less than 1/2” and noticeably smaller than the #2 Kynoch wads I want to imitate.

Most recently I decided to order a 1” sheet of open cell foam off Amazon, that looks like I’ll be able to get between 850-1200 wads from, and the sheet cost all of like $45 and then ordered a 5/8” punch for $17. ***Note, the 5/8” punch kicks out a wad that is right at the same size as the 1/2” #2 Kynoch wad. I originally ordered a 1/2” punch but it kicked out closer to 3/8” wads when punching the foam.

The foam is called

Case Club Customizable Polyurethane (do not get the polyethylene as I think it is closed cell)​

Here’s the link:

Amazon.com

 

[Wildwillalaska]

My buddy Mac gives me a ton of grief for spending the extra effort to punch out the foam sheet which I did because I was trying to make the wads cut from open cell backer rod as close to the #2 Kynoch as possible. Problem being, without some kind of cutting jig, you’ll never get precise, repeated length and damn near impossible to get pretty square ends, they always seem slightly off. That said, shooting I can’t ascertain a bit of difference between using the Kynoch, those punched from the 1” foam sheet, or those cut from backer rod, and that’s with shooting multiple hundreds of rounds through 7 different Heym and 1 Westley Richard’s doubles as well as a 505 Gibbs Breeding bolt gun…over chronograph where I’m looking at ES/SD working up loads and same when shooting for practice/fun.

Think Mac is 100% accurate that the slight difference in length and cut angle doesn’t matter one bit…which is why he knocks out several dozen in a couple minutes with a big pair of scissors. My OCD-inclined brain won’t allow it though.

End of the day, I’d suggest taking a little time to find proper open cell foam like that used in the Kynoch #2 wads, in real 1/2” or 5/8” diameter, or punch same from a 1” open cell sheet. While I can’t bring myself to cut them with scissors, I am better about knocking them out quickly with a Havalon, but still trying to get them as square as possible. I find the sheet/punch production faster but both shoot the same.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I've used open cell foam for 470 and 450/400

 

[AimSmall]

The foam from Barnes bullet boxes work with the 5/8" leather punch.

 

[Andrew NOLA]

@Wildwillalaska

You use is 1 inch thick open Cell foam punched to 5/8 diameter.

Do you trim the 1 inch plugs shorter or you use them as is?

Would you mind posting a link to the punch?

Greatly appreciate all the help

 

[V.Veritas]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cabelcan]

Foam fillers always made me a little more cautious. Some shooters swear by them, but I've seen enough debate about consistency and potential pressure effects that I never felt a strong reason to switch away from something that was already working.

 

[SStomcat]

@Wildwillalaska

You use is 1 inch thick open Cell foam punched to 5/8 diameter.

Do you trim the 1 inch plugs shorter or you use them as is?

Would you mind posting a link to the punch?

Greatly appreciate all the help

I guess this will work ...

C.R. LAURENCE B0CBR58C CRL 5/8" Open Cell Backer Rod - 100 Foot Roll: Adhesive Caulk: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

C.R. LAURENCE B0CBR58C CRL 5/8" Open Cell Backer Rod - 100 Foot Roll: Adhesive Caulk: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com